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  • Spousal Support Particulars: Advice Sought

    Hi Everyone,

    <O</O
    I’m new here, and I’m going through a divorce in Alberta. So far, I’m comfortable with everything, except for the spousal support component, which I find very frustrating. I think it’s the most contentious and controversial area of family law. I’d like to share my particulars and would welcome any and all comments.

    -we were together for 10 years. 5 years co-habitation and 5 married
    -before marriage, we lived in my house. I maintained the house financially (mortgage, taxes, utilities) and we shared in chores
    -we both worked full time hours
    -we did not have a child during this time

    -after marriage, our child came along
    -we started to economically integrate finances in terms of the house, our child
    -my wife started maternity leave in 2005 and returned to working full time hours in 2006.
    -we shared equally in the parenting of the child. In fact, it’s fair for me to state that the child was in my care more, due to our work schedules
    at the time of separation, she was making $39,000 and I was making $76,000

    I am 35 years old, and my wife is 33 years old.

    We are currently working towards parenting the child 50/50. I will pay her $345/month, which is the difference in our respective CS table amounts. I’m allowing her to claim all CCTB benefits, which will amount to $240/month.

    She will be getting half the equity from the house (buy out, or sale), half my RRSP's and half of my private pension plan.

    I’m aware of the SSAG, and for our particulars, the range is $0 to $774 with a midpoint of $314/month. The range is ABSOLUTELTY LUDICROUS and I might as well throw them out the window, because with such a broad range, it really doesn't mean anything and is not very helpful.

    She is requesting $700/month for 5 years, after which, she wants it reviewed. I find this request highly OFFENSIVE for these reasons:

    1. She’s been in the workforce, working full time hours for the entire 10 years we were together. During that time, she was free to pursue any job, or opportunity that came her way. Her career was not hindered, and she did not sacrifice or give up anything "for the marriage".


    2. Post separation, she’s been offered higher paying jobs, but she’s had to turn them down, because she’s “too stressed” about everything.


    3. During the marriage, she passed up higher paying opportunities, which at the time, I questioned, but ultimately supported her at the time anyway.

    4. $700/month gives her NO INCENTIVE to want to go out and improve herself. What happened to basic personal responsibility for oneself?

    I’ve countered her offer with something a little more reasonable and based on the roles and responsibilities that each of us performed while together. I offered her $200/month for 2 years, plus I’ve offered her the “matrimonial car”. I’m prepared to offer her more assets, but honestly, when is enough, enough?

    I’d really like to hear of anyone that has gone though a similar type situation, or is currently in the process of going through it.

    Cheers!

    Canafa Gold 2010<O</O

  • #2
    I'm not an authority on this, but based on previous posts around here, I think you have a good case to not pay SS at all.

    A short marriage of only 5 years (they don't count common-law time beforehand, I'm not sure why) usually means an obligation of only 2.5 years for people who do have entitlement.

    As you said, her career was not hindered by the marriage, so there is no need to compensate her for sacrifices made for your own career. As demonstrated by her receipt of offers of higher paying jobs during the marriage, she has good prospects to increase her income. Considering that, there is not that much difference in your salaries, in the grand scheme of things. So I would argue that she would have a hard time proving entitlement.

    Treat her $700 demand with no fixed end point as her ridiculously high starting point for negotiation, counter with zero entitlement based on the situation, and be willing to "compromise" at $200 a month for two years or something.

    Also, I would insist on getting half the CCTB, forget "letting" her claim all of it. You want to establish and maintain 50-50 with your child in every way, or she will chip away at your access.

    Comment


    • #3
      Agreed. Her entitlement seems pretty sketchy. Maternity is paid leave, and she didn't stay home to look after the child and went back to work. Your salaries aren't different enough to indicate much entitlement there either.

      You have a lot of options but I think your offer of $200/month for 2 years is a pretty good compromise. If it makes or breaks a settlement, then offering midpoint of $314 for 2.5 years isn't a terrible deal.

      Put it into perspective:
      $3768 per year for 2.5 years = $9420. And it's tax deductible to you.

      In the scale of divorce that's not much money to pay to avoid heavy legal fees. The first 3 months of my legal bills were more than that.

      But as always, it's more about what you can get the other party to accept.

      Comment


      • #4
        For what it's worth, my lawyer advised me that common law DOES count when considering Spousal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          Also, I would insist on getting half the CCTB, forget "letting" her claim all of it. You want to establish and maintain 50-50 with your child in every way, or she will chip away at your access.
          Take half the CCTB. Give the money to her if you feel bad about it. Better yet put it in RESP's. But keep the status.

          Comment


          • #6
            Eligibility is a question in her case although the child might make her eligible. She would probably get median amount for one year reviewable then. I think the case from Alberta called Shields v. Shields might be relevant.

            http://www2.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb%...08abca0213.pdf

            CanLII - 2008 ABCA 213 (CanLII)

            Comment


            • #7
              Canada Gold 2010, it is important to realize that there are 3 things that always have to be determined about SS: Entitlement, amount and length. Each has to be looked at separately. Length and amount don't affect the question of whether there is entitlement in the first place.

              The crucial issue here is entitlement, it's not clear she is entitled at all. If you start out paying spousal support then you are admitting entitlement, before she has even made a case for it.

              Once you have admitted entitlement, if she loses her job or doesn't seek better paying jobs down the road, then she can keep coming back for "reviews" and depending on the judge and what arguments are made you could still be on the hook.

              If you don't admit entitlement then she has to prove it, and she doesn't have a strong case, if any.

              If I were you I would be very cautious about offering $200 per month in support because this opens the door to later claims.

              Your alternative if you want her to shut up and go away would be to offer a lump sum payment roughly equal to the amount of spousal you are offering. This isn't tax deductable like spousal, however it does not admit she is entitled to ongoing support.

              Regarding the CCTB, I agree with other members here, you should claim the amount even if at your income it is close to $0. This is about establishing your custody and shared parenting in the eyes of the law. Furthermore, you should each be claiming the child as a dependent for alternate years on your tax return, and if she is making the full CCTB claim this flags your return. You would also not be able to justify claiming for daycare, camp, etc.

              If you want to use it as leverage, you could offer to generously allow her to retain the CCTB and the tax deductions in exchange for a quick settlement with her signing away any claim for spousal support. If it were me I would make an offer like this with a 30 day time limit. If she drags it out, then it is pointless because she will claim for this year anyway and you will get continuing legal bills. However there are strong reasons to just make the CCTB and tax claims anyway for the sake of clearly establishing your shared parenting rights.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for your comments and advice everyone.

                We have a settlement meeting this week, with our lawyers present. We'll see what happens.

                Cheers!

                Canada Gold 2010

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shellshocked22 View Post
                  For what it's worth, my lawyer advised me that common law DOES count when considering Spousal.
                  i was advised of the same thing by my lawyer.

                  Comment

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