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  #11  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:58 PM
sahibjee sahibjee is offline
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Tayken thank you very much for your very detailed and thoughtful analysis, I will respond to it in length, however some more drama has been added to the mix ...details below ... enjoy

*history: when i was kicked out of my place, only some of my clothing was returned, my brand new winter jacket was not returned and was claimed "misplaced" by the ex*

Today i went to the daycare to drop off my son, the daycare staff handed me a bag "Your son's mom left this for you, there is a card inside" I looked inside, there appeared to be a winter coat & a card. I took the bag as the staff wanted to get back to work. I read the card and here is what it read "Dear Name, I wish you a very blessed (moon calender date) and happy 5th wedding anniversary"!
and "I wish god gives you strength to forget every bad memory of our relationship. I will always value the good times we spent in love of each other"
and then a couplet i'll try to translate

*may even a laugh sound as a cry to you,
may even a flirtation may not tempt you,
may you miss me in every moonlight,
may you never be content without me*
(i think this was supposed to be a romantic couplet?)
From Mrs Name.

The card had some hand made decorations attached to it.

Now the most interesting part is that we have NEVER celebrated the anniversary according to the moon calendar, and always according to the regular Georgian calendar so this was absolutely unexpected.

At one hand she was asking me how divorce will be filed, and two days later this. some one is toying with my head :S

Last edited by sahibjee; 01-24-2013 at 11:04 PM.
  #12  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:47 PM
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Don't fall for it! Be strong!
  #13  
Old 01-25-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post

It is a well know tactic for negative advocate solicitors to have their client offer up something like this to an unrepresented party so they generate tangible (documented) evidence that the other parent is willing to "take" sole custody if offered.

You have been arguing for full joint custody and 50-50 access. So, what better than a document improperly served where by you are offering "sole custody" and "majority access" be with you?

These negative advocates push their clients to document no offers, opinions or suggestions to the other parent in the matter quite often. They will instruct their clients only to talk viva voce. In fact, even in highly conflicted situations these negative advocate solicitors will even send letters requesting the other party's contact telephone number etc and letters from their clients to the effect of "lets work this out". Even when there are restraining orders in place.
Thank you very much for your careful and detailed analysis, I believe the above part is exactly what is happening, I guess i am too new in the system to uncover tactics such as above being launched against me

oddly enough the ex claimed that she has fired her current counsel as well (this would be the 2nd counsel gone for her) because "she wasn't co-operating" but that counsel has not served me with notice of change in representation yet.

I have been recording the phone calls just in case she makes another false allegation to the cops, i believe ontario is a one-party consent. but i dont think those recordings would be of any use in family court since i dont have consent of the other party. and really the only reason for recording mere self defense.

I do agree with you where you say the drama should be expected, i guess i usually just take her words on face value, but it is perhaps not the right course of action, she does suffer from a personality disorder and perhaps some form of autism spectrum.

I do think our son will be devastated if she leaves, but i dont think there is any way to stop her. i do wonder what happens with CS in those cases, its not a common wealth country hence the CS order wont be enforceable there. also i sat in a motion where a mother was seeking CS from a father who had moved to detroit, was absent and had no counsel representing him either; she claimed he was working in some auto plant in detroit and she wanted a certain $$ amount based on $10/h imputed to the father, but the judge refused to impute anything to the father stating salaries in detroit are way lower than ontario, end of motion.
  #14  
Old 01-25-2013, 03:28 PM
Pursuinghappiness Pursuinghappiness is offline
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Sahibjee:

Here's the couplet she should have wrote:

May your future gf not accuse you of false DV allegations,
May you be able to co-exist in a home with the opposite sex w/o cops showing up at the door to put you in handcuffs,
May you not have to endure the ongoing attentions of a psychotic woman ,
May you not have to deal with custody fights,
From Mrs Name.

You'd have to be completely out of your mind to accept anything this person says at face value. Frankly, the person who needs to change here is you because everytime she offers you a gift, or writes you a stupid poem...you waffle and start caving.

Its like watching a Lifetime movie where the chick tells all her friends she got the black eye banging into a door.

Seriously, get a grip and protect yourself. This is a person that literally had you up on false DV charges. Having a false police record can have such serious adverse effects on your life, I'm honestly amazed that you'd even touch a piece of paper that she wrote on without having it checked to make sure it doesn't have anthrax on it.

You cannot do anything about her actions. If she doesn't leave...you'll have to continue working on your co-parenting arrangement. If she does, you'll have to find another positive female role-model for your child...hopefully one less inclined to 'crazy'.

On a positive note, gullible men can be extremely attractive to some members of the opposite sex...especially ones that like large shoe collections.
  #15  
Old 01-25-2013, 03:56 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Sahibjee:

Here's the couplet she should have wrote:

May your future gf not accuse you of false DV allegations,
May you be able to co-exist in a home with the opposite sex w/o cops showing up at the door to put you in handcuffs,
May you not have to endure the ongoing attentions of a psychotic woman ,
May you not have to deal with custody fights,
From Mrs Name.


You'd have to be completely out of your mind to accept anything this person says at face value. Frankly, the person who needs to change here is you because everytime she offers you a gift, or writes you a stupid poem...you waffle and start caving.

Its like watching a Lifetime movie where the chick tells all her friends she got the black eye banging into a door.

Seriously, get a grip and protect yourself. This is a person that literally had you up on false DV charges. Having a false police record can have such serious adverse effects on your life, I'm honestly amazed that you'd even touch a piece of paper that she wrote on without having it checked to make sure it doesn't have anthrax on it.

You cannot do anything about her actions. If she doesn't leave...you'll have to continue working on your co-parenting arrangement. If she does, you'll have to find another positive female role-model for your child...hopefully one less inclined to 'crazy'.

On a positive note, gullible men can be extremely attractive to some members of the opposite sex...especially ones that like large shoe collections.
PH, as always, but more than ever with this one... Awesome stuff. Really liked what should have been put in the card too!

Just to add: The card is cogent and relevant evidence in an admission against interest that the party has possibly made false allegations of domestic violence in an attempt to gain an upper hand in a matrimonial dispute.

That card attached to an affidavit would be deadly evidence to counter past and future claims of "abuse" made against you.

I am truly speechless to why anyone would do this other than the fact that they are possibly Axis II disordered.

Good LucK!
Tayken
  #16  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaithandMorals View Post
It COULD be that the other parent is trying to bait you Sahibjee to look like you want sole custody and are acting against the child's best interest.

Tread carefully where Angels fear to fly.
I am so thankful for this forum in general and posters like F&M in particular, who make brilliant observations like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
It is a well know tactic for negative advocate solicitors to have their client offer up something like this to an unrepresented party so they generate tangible (documented) evidence that the other parent is willing to "take" sole custody if offered.
Couldn't the OP ask his stbx to draft the Offer to Settle that includes the same terms and conditions she said she's willing to agree to?

That way there's nothing on paper that could be used against the OP, at a later date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post

On a positive note, gullible men can be extremely attractive to some members of the opposite sex...especially ones that like large shoe collections.
Hehe. Tru dat.
  #17  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firhill View Post
Couldn't the OP ask his stbx to draft the Offer to Settle that includes the same terms and conditions she said she's willing to agree to?
This is what I am recommending but, in a more complex way, involving the other party in the matter's solicitor to do. I tried to write the recommended letter in a way that it could be with prejudice be attached to a responding affidavit or put into the trial record. Not sure if I was totally successful in doing so but, I am no lawyer so I may have flopped on some of the wording. It was about (a) confirming if the statements made viva voce were in fact truthful and (b) obtaining the other party's position and/or (c) alerting the other solicitor to the conduct of their client and their client's position that they may not be aware of.

The odd card is really a weird one to deal with. I am trying to think of a way it can be attached to the correspondence as well without being perceived as mean but, demonstrating to the other party's lawyer that their client just made an admission against interest that their client provided evidence, in an exception to the hearsay rule, that their client clearly has

(a) no "fear" of the OP
(b) contacting the OP in contravention of the peace order existing
(c) trying to communicate some form of an apology for their past conduct

I wish the OP had a lawyer and a good one. If the OP had very experienced counsel they could quickly drive the matter to settlement possibly.

I have seen an evolving pattern on a few files now where this kind of conduct is routine. In all matters, the police were involved, the other parent attempted an "urgent" motion before the court and all failed... Ultimately after either (a) the legal aid ontario certificate expires or (b) the cogent and relevant evidence to conduct is produced a letter and/or some form of personal communication from the false accuser is produced.

It is baffling that this pattern of behavior is so prevalent and exposed so often in cases in which attempts to leverage the criminal justice system to gain an upper hand ("status quo") through this "truism" (read: Tactic) happens so often.

I am sure justices are starting to get tired with reading this kind of stuff from the factitious accusers who exaggerate to "win" a case and when their "tactic" fails to work write these kinds of letters/cards/vague apologies.

What I always ponder is why the justices in the matters do not do more about it? What is more concerning and what the OP should be more aware of is that in every matter I have seen with similar patterns of behaviour, when the note is deemed to have been "rejected" by the receiving parent, they have all later on the file re-engaged allegations to the police in attempt to again seek vengeance.

So be forewarned OP. Your not acknowledging and even questioning the letter may bring another unsubstantiated and false allegation to (a) the police and/or (b) CAS against you. If you have a significant other now involved in your life, expect a motion for contempt to be served for being happy next...

Often, these possibly highly conflicted (and possibly Axis II disordered borderlines and/or avoidants) expect you to do what they want, to be "controlled" by their "emotional ploy" and do what they want. When you don't, they will seek vengeance against you and start the hurling of allegations.

This is when the gaggle of negative advocates wielding affidavits of hearsay will show up on your file against you. Stating you are awful, mean, and the piles of "double hearsay" whereby these negative advocates state: "The wonderful Ms. X told me that the evil Mr. Y yelled at her, told her that she couldn't do A, B, C, blah blah blah blah blah".

This is probably because it is a tremendous narcissistic injury to them that you don't acquiesce to every very histrionic request emotional demand they make and odd poem the write to you.

BTW: Do note that Dr. Lawson has identified in clinical research, as well as other recognized professionals, that Axis II disordered people are avid poetry writers as a means of self expression.

You just have to search "borderline poetry" to see thousands of examples of similar poems all with the same "black and white" statements in them. One thing to note in the writing style is that they often discuss hiding behind "masks" and how they have to hide their true self from the rest of society. It is almost like clockwork how they write about the "masks" they identify. In fact, most actually write about the "mask" literally that they have to wear.

Quote:
This must be the mask that I wear
To face them all so they don't stare
It hides my tears and my pain
But slowly it drives me insane
http://www.bpdworld.org/the-community

(Just as an example to back up the hypothesis presented.)

Good Luck!
Tayken

Last edited by Tayken; 01-25-2013 at 11:47 PM.
  #18  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:21 PM
sahibjee sahibjee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Sahibjee:

Here's the couplet she should have wrote:

May your future gf not accuse you of false DV allegations,
May you be able to co-exist in a home with the opposite sex w/o cops showing up at the door to put you in handcuffs,
May you not have to endure the ongoing attentions of a psychotic woman ,
May you not have to deal with custody fights,
From Mrs Name.
lol ok I love it ... but she would never wish well for me :|

Quote:
You'd have to be completely out of your mind to accept anything this person says at face value.
I dont believe her at all, but she is successful in playing games.. which i hate

Quote:
On a positive note, gullible men can be extremely attractive to some members of the opposite sex...especially ones that like large shoe collections.
I need to find a woman who makes twice as much as me ... i need to fulfill my dream of building a giant telescope in my backyard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Just to add: The card is cogent and relevant evidence in an admission against interest that the party has possibly made false allegations of domestic violence in an attempt to gain an upper hand in a matrimonial dispute.
1
That card attached to an affidavit would be deadly evidence to counter past and future claims of "abuse" made against you.

I am truly speechless to why anyone would do this other than the fact that they are possibly Axis II disordered.

Good LucK!
Tayken
read the poetry she had previously written below!

Quote:
Originally Posted by firhill View Post
Couldn't the OP ask his stbx to draft the Offer to Settle that includes the same terms and conditions she said she's willing to agree to?

That way there's nothing on paper that could be used against the OP, at a later date.
I did ask her yesterday when i was dropping off my son. she denied to do so. i.e. the negative solicitor advised strategy that Tayken had mention was real! luckily i got the advice in time .. thanks Tayken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
This is what I am recommending but, in a more complex way, involving the other party in the matter's solicitor to do. I tried to write the recommended letter in a way that it could be with prejudice be attached to a responding affidavit or put into the trial record. Not sure if I was totally successful in doing so but, I am no lawyer so I may have flopped on some of the wording. It was about (a) confirming if the statements made viva voce were in fact truthful and (b) obtaining the other party's position and/or (c) alerting the other solicitor to the conduct of their client and their client's position that they may not be aware of.
I had drafed up the letter but before i could finalize & send it she did let her 2nd lawyer go too (or the legal aid certificate expired?. the cert was issued Oct 2011 & her counsel made 5 appearances on the cert in addition to the 1 appearance her first counsel made. so i'd say the hours were finished too)

May be i should just send it to her now in an email? not sure how to deal with another self rep who has no fax to serve them on, sending couriers over every time may be an *expensive option.

Quote:
The odd card is really a weird one to deal with. I am trying to think of a way it can be attached to the correspondence as well without being perceived as mean but, demonstrating to the other party's lawyer that their client just made an admission against interest that their client provided evidence, in an exception to the hearsay rule, that their client clearly has

(a) no "fear" of the OP
(b) contacting the OP in contravention of the peace order existing
(c) trying to communicate some form of an apology for their past conduct
no peace order exists at this time, so legally she can contact me all she wants.

Quote:
What I always ponder is why the justices in the matters do not do more about it? What is more concerning and what the OP should be more aware of is that in every matter I have seen with similar patterns of behaviour, when the note is deemed to have been "rejected" by the receiving parent, they have all later on the file re-engaged allegations to the police in attempt to again seek vengeance.

So be forewarned OP. Your not acknowledging and even questioning the letter may bring another unsubstantiated and false allegation to (a) the police and/or (b) CAS against you. If you have a significant other now involved in your life, expect a motion for contempt to be served for being happy next...

Often, these possibly highly conflicted (and possibly Axis II disordered borderlines and/or avoidants) expect you to do what they want, to be "controlled" by their "emotional ploy" and do what they want. When you don't, they will seek vengeance against you and start the hurling of allegations.
I did acknowledge the card in an email saying thank you, just so that a record is made. here is what i wrote

"Dear Name,
Today when I went to the daycare to drop off our son I was pleasantly surprised by a gift that you had left with Miss XXXX. Thank you very much for the jacket & the card. your sentiment is much appreciated. I do wish we weren't spending this day like this. May the future be bright

Regards,
Name"

In my understanding I wrote it in a way so that if it goes to court the judge would see me as some one who wishes no conflict and in case the judge refuses to take the card as evidence of admission of false DV charges at least he/she would see that I was still polite enough to respond & reduce conflict

ex responded to my mail.
"You are welcome NAME
By the way i also like surprises :P
With Regards,
Name"

Quote:
BTW: Do note that Dr. Lawson has identified in clinical research, as well as other recognized professionals, that Axis II disordered people are avid poetry writers as a means of self expression.

You just have to search "borderline poetry" to see thousands of examples of similar poems all with the same "black and white" statements in them. One thing to note in the writing style is that they often discuss hiding behind "masks" and how they have to hide their true self from the rest of society. It is almost like clockwork how they write about the "masks" they identify. In fact, most actually write about the "mask" literally that they have to wear.



Poems

(Just as an example to back up the hypothesis presented.)

Good Luck!
Tayken

This is a poem she wrote (hand written) few months after she had broken up with her first husband and about 3 months before we knew about each other's existence.

Misery of my life

[I am alone to the extent to which loneliness can prevail
The sweet fragrance of life that I could never inhail
The sorrows & hopelessness fill my hear all over
Olord kill this desperation & take my breath over]
(14 Jan, 08)

I am confused about situation or either I cant manipulate
Ive to accept the reality & facts because I cant deviate
My present state of mind makes myself ful
And I am more surprised when other say life is beautiful
(15 Jan, 08)
[I am supposed to look into matters with special instruction
A work that I hate, which leads to destruction]
{a person who loves me & Ive to leave him at the same time
I am left with no option except committing a crime.

Ill kill myself & will destroy my soul
Because I cant hold the pressure & cant suffer *for all (*or another word)
It seems a bit better to live beneath the soil.
So that I can prevent myself to become more spoil}
(14 Jan, 08)
(14th ,15th ,16th January 08)
Written By Me: (FirstName Last Name)

After the false DV charges i told my parents backhome to look into our room to find our marriage certificate, instead they found this prize .. I am find it insane that


1- she would bring some thing like this from her past into our lives
2- leave at at our place!
  #19  
Old 01-28-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahibjee View Post
I need to find a woman who makes twice as much as me ... i need to fulfill my dream of building a giant telescope in my backyard
Yay telescope! Hope your backyard is dark enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sahibjee View Post
I did acknowledge the card in an email saying thank you, just so that a record is made. here is what i wrote

"Dear Name,
Today when I went to the daycare to drop off our son I was pleasantly surprised by a gift that you had left with Miss XXXX. Thank you very much for the jacket & the card. your sentiment is much appreciated. I do wish we weren't spending this day like this. May the future be bright

Regards,
Name"
Not businesslike enough; too much emotion is in there. A simple "I received the coat and card" is all you need. Don't get into gratitude, sentiment and certainly not regret at how you are spending the day! Now it sounds like you want to get back together with her. She'll jump all over that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sahibjee View Post
In my understanding I wrote it in a way so that if it goes to court the judge would see me as some one who wishes no conflict and in case the judge refuses to take the card as evidence of admission of false DV charges at least he/she would see that I was still polite enough to respond & reduce conflict

ex responded to my mail.
"You are welcome NAME
By the way i also like surprises :P
With Regards,
Name"
See, she's already wheedling to get a comparable gift from you in return! Don't fall for it! Strictly business! No reciprocation! I know it's hard because you once loved her, but remember, now she's just manipulating you to get what she wants.

Sure, there was no conflict in that exchange, but you're still falling for her tricks.
  #20  
Old 01-28-2013, 07:41 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahibjee View Post
Misery of my life

[I am alone to the extent to which loneliness can prevail
The sweet fragrance of life that I could never inhail
The sorrows & hopelessness fill my hear all over
Olord kill this desperation & take my breath over]
(14 Jan, 08)

I am confused about situation or either I cant manipulate
Ive to accept the reality & facts because I cant deviate
My present state of mind makes myself ful
And I am more surprised when other say life is beautiful
(15 Jan, 08)
[I am supposed to look into matters with special instruction
A work that I hate, which leads to destruction]
{a person who loves me & Ive to leave him at the same time
I am left with no option except committing a crime.

Ill kill myself & will destroy my soul
Because I cant hold the pressure & cant suffer *for all (*or another word)
It seems a bit better to live beneath the soil.
So that I can prevent myself to become more spoil}
(14 Jan, 08)
(14th ,15th ,16th January 08)
Written By Me: (FirstName Last Name)
The World of the Borderline Mother--And Her Children | Psychology Today

(This next link is provided as the source to the direct quotes of Dr. Lawson's materials and for no other purpose. It is a blog but, the quotes are relevant which I have provided in the body of this message and taken from the blog.)

The Queen and King: Understanding My Borderline Mother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day. These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
Borderlines do selfish things for their own good, and rob their children of happiness and a "normal life" in various ways. Borderline mothers tend to use their children, and their husbands, and then discard them when they are through with them. Borderlines destroy families and tear them completely apart, and they are not always victims. Many of them can destroy their entire family and extended family, and feel justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
Borderlines often inflict harm on their own children when involved in separations and divorces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
Fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthlessness. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawson
Borderlines make a person feel so loved, so secure etc., in the beginning (high value stage) and then a free-fall into insanity when the person completely morphs into a different personality, whom is cold, super angry, emotionally out of control and totally unreasonable and you find yourself lying emotionally wide-open, flat on your back, wondering what in the hell happened. (de-valuation stage).
When reading the descriptions of your matters OP... These and other quotes come to mind. I would heed the above warning to you. You really need to seek assistance prior to responding in that manner.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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