Kids starting school

[formyGirls]

Again, my ex is unreal....

We have two young kids starting school tomorrow. The youngest is her first day EVER!!! They are both very excited to start tomorrow

Over the last few weeks, the ex (who has temporary sole custody) has flip flopped on which school our children are going to, and hasn't said a peep about it to me (my oldest mentioned she was changing schools).

So I write a nice email, saying how nice it was to see the kids so excited for school, and that I would like to be there for the first drop off, and meet the teacher, etc.. The usual first day stuff. I did this with our oldest before separation, but now the ex is resisting.

Our divorce is filled with nasty allegations on her part, and she is spitting fire in every other email, even two years later after separation. Her first reaction, time and time again, is to do what she wants and forget about the reaction of our kids. Sometimes she smartens up and sees what is best for the kids, sometimes not. (The kids and I missed our one week summer vacation because "originally she volunteered it, and as such maintained the right to change her mind")

Not being one to push her buttons unnecessarily, I guess I am calling the school in the morning to find out what time to be there. She will likely get upset about it, but I remember from being a kid starting school, how cool it was when my dad could make it to school events (until I realized how un-cool it was when I got older )

Her last words on this matter.... "Your access time ended on Sunday at XX:00 pm and resumes in 12 days...".

Unreal.

So in my typical high conflict style <sarcasm>, I will be at the school tomorrow anyhow, and wish the kids well. I just hope it won't turn into a skirmish on her part, or she makes a scene, etc...

And just covering my butt.... has anyone here EVER heard about access being that restrictive that I can't even stop by and wish the kids a good day at school? There are absolutely no separation anxiety issues that would get in the way. My temporary access order just says "from xx time Friday to xx time Sunday, Eow, starting xx day".

[wretchedotis]

When its not your time, its not your time. She can make a big deal about you being there. I don't know what the result will be - but I could see the police cautioning you to stay away when its not your time. Depends on how big a deal she makes it.

I'm not sure what you plan on doing is such a good idea.
If you follow through with it - make sure you are on your best behaviour and no matter what don't get angry/excited. Calm and cool is your friend.

[May_May]

Do you have someone you can bring with you as well to help ensure you stay calm, and to pull you away from the situation if she starts to cause a scene ? (grandparent?)

She should not be doing this ! It's not correct. I have our 2 boys this week, and called my stbx Sun night (after exchange) to see if he wants me to pick him up on the way so he can be there as well (He said no, which is a shame). These type of events should be accompanied by both parents. This is for the children.

Good luck if you go ! Drink decaf in the morning...

[billm]

Go to the school and be there for their first day. It is obvious that access is about being responsible for the kids, and how they are cared for, not for restricting access to the other parent.

But be smart about it to minimize any conflict with her (ie none!).

The police cannot tell you not to be there, nor will they caution you, that would be ridiculous.

I can't believe that she would think that she has a say in whether you are there, and also it is clear that it is best for the kids you are both there, assuming you can both be civil and child focused.

I'm not sure if you should tell her nicely that you will be there, or if you should just show up (probably the latter). It truly is none of her business if you want to be in a public place to see your kids. Just stand where all the other kids are lined up - it would be impossible for her to interfere and not look like the ass that she (apparently) is.

[Mess]

When its not your time, its not your time. She can make a big deal about you being there. I don't know what the result will be - but I could see the police cautioning you to stay away when its not your time. Depends on how big a deal she makes it.

This isn't true. The Family Law Act doesn't have anything to say about this, and there is no consistant trial decision to base it on.

If there was conflict it would be decided on a case by case basis, there is no black and white answer.

It's very common for both parents to attend doctor and dentist visits, sports practices and competitions, music recitals, graduation ceremonies. If a child was having an operation, in most cases both parents would attend at the hospital. This has nothing to do with who's access day it is. It is in the best interest of the child for both parents to be involved where possible.

Moreover in this circumstance there is no restriction on either parent from attending the school at any time and speaking with the teacher or principal. This has nothing to do with who's access time it is.

I'd also say that in general it's a good idea to gently assert yourself in situtions like this, because if you cave in to an antagnistic parent then you end up getting locked out by instance after instance. That parent will then turn around and claim you are not involved with the child's schooling etc. as a claim for full custody.

[formyGirls]

I'm not worried about staying calm and avoiding the conflict .... it's her I am worried about.

I just don't see how the first day drop off is any different than any other school event. I have gone to Christmas concerts and school plays in the past, "Dad's day", and whatever events I can get to. Very rarely does the ex let me know about what is coming up. More often, I look at the school calendar online, or my 8 year old is mentioning the event and asking me to attend.

This is not one on one time. This is not taking away from her parenting time. It is about supporting your kids and letting them have the memories of growing up they should be allowed to have.

Twice in the past year, there have been school events on evenings of their very limited access periods with me. As per usual, I often find out these things the night before the access. Without a moment's hesitation, and both times finding out the night before, I changed our plans and made arrangements for our daughter to attend the events, so that both her mom and I could enjoy it. I wouldn't dream of telling her mom she shouldn't be there. As long as she doesn't sit beside me, who cares?

I have always tried to be careful with the language I use when communicating with the ex. It is never "my" access weekend... it is "the children's" access weekend. I remember coming across a passage from a judge, somewhere on CanLii (homework time - have to go back and find it!), where the judge stated along the lines that access time is not a right of either parent, it is a right of the children to have access to both parents.

So be careful in all your affidavits, motions, conference briefs, etc.... maybe some extra careful language will win you a few brownie points one day

Again, I appreciate all your opinions. I am trying to look at things from her perspective, and try to see why she wouldn't want me there. Other than personal reasons, I don't see the issue. Am I missing something? Am I really stepping on her "toes" by meeting the teacher and all that stuff (I do legally have access to the teachers and report cards and everything). It would be a lot easier for me tomorrow to not go - I am taking time off work to do it. And despite what some might think, I'm not doing it to piss off the ex. It would just be nice for my youngest especially, on her first day of school, to be able to share that with both my ex and myself. If I am missing something, please feel free to hit me with it!

Thanks

[formyGirls]

Since his ex has sole custody she lists names of the people who can pick up the kids or get info about them. If she doesn't put his name the teachers will just say ...ummm..who are you...your name is not on the list

Yep, been there, lived through that.

I am under an undertaking right now (false allegation of uttering threats - whoooooole other story and reason to rant, lol). I can't communicate directly/ indirectly or go to her house. And have to use a third party to arrange access.

My ex jumped all over it. She told the school I can't pick up the kids there anymore due to police charges. Whole other story and don't want to hijack my own thread, lol!

Suffice to say, though, the school knows who I am. But I have always been 100% pleasant and calm and polite, even the first day after being charged and they wouldn't let me pick up my kids for their access.

[Tayken]

When its not your time, its not your time. She can make a big deal about you being there. I don't know what the result will be - but I could see the police cautioning you to stay away when its not your time. Depends on how big a deal she makes it.

I'm not sure what you plan on doing is such a good idea.
If you follow through with it - make sure you are on your best behaviour and no matter what don't get angry/excited. Calm and cool is your friend.

Wretchedotis is 100% correct.

By the way your idea is standard high-conflict parenting 101 stuff straight out of "Shared Parenting with a Jerk" (book). If you want the other parent to respect your day-to-day autoimmunity when your children are with you... You are going to have to do the same.

It is unfortunate that the first day of school falls on custodial time with the other parent but, the moon will not fall out of the sky if you are not there. Do you really want to have this kind of conflict in the proceedings?

What benefit is it to your children if you put yourself (and them!) in a high-conflict situation? What does it demonstrate to the school too?

I would take Wretchedotis' advice and stay clear of the first day of school.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

Do you have someone you can bring with you as well to help ensure you stay calm, and to pull you away from the situation if she starts to cause a scene ? (grandparent?)

She should not be doing this ! It's not correct. I have our 2 boys this week, and called my stbx Sun night (after exchange) to see if he wants me to pick him up on the way so he can be there as well (He said no, which is a shame). These type of events should be accompanied by both parents. This is for the children.

Good luck if you go ! Drink decaf in the morning...

May_May,

Based on your comments it sounds like you have a very low conflict situation with the other parent and are working through the issues. The other parent has day-to-day autonomy from him. So should you but, you choose to work cooperatively with the other parent. Which is great to hear! It doesn't sound like this is a similar situation.

Often, parents think that they can have a shared custody arrangement but, it just doesn't work out. Considering the claims to "false allegations of domestic violence" I am surprised Formygirls would go to the school.

Formygirls... Don't stress yourself out over this. You may find yourself in a situation that you don't want to be in again. Just avoid the situation all together and the conflict.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

Go to the school and be there for their first day. It is obvious that access is about being responsible for the kids, and how they are cared for, not for restricting access to the other parent.

I believe that Formygirl has stated in another thread he is restrained from being in the other parent's presence. If he attends a location knowing the other parent will be there that is a clear violation of the restraining order and the police will probably have to enforce it.

But be smart about it to minimize any conflict with her (ie none!)

Like not going and getting yourself arrested. Formygirls has emailed the other parent notifying them he is going to violate the restraining order possibly. Furthermore, he may find yourself in front of a contempt motion (depending on how high-conflict the other parent is) for an access violation. Not something I would recommend to do the other parent but, it could happen. (Cost + annoyance = more conflict)

The police cannot tell you not to be there, nor will they caution you, that would be ridiculous.

Depending. If there is a restraining order against Formygirls then they can arrest him and ask questions later. Furthermore, if there is an agreement (endorsed) or an order detailing the access schedule and custody... The police will usher him away to avoid a high-conflict situation in a public place. Just by showing up in contravention of the court order he would be demonstrating to the officers involved he does not respect court orders. Not a great thing to do.

I can't believe that she would think that she has a say in whether you are there, and also it is clear that it is best for the kids you are both there, assuming you can both be civil and child focused.

It is the other parent's time with the children. That is how the cards have fallen. It is better to resolve the problem through settlement or through a court order than in front of the children, with police and the school as witnesses to his conduct I say.

I'm not sure if you should tell her nicely that you will be there, or if you should just show up (probably the latter). It truly is none of her business if you want to be in a public place to see your kids. Just stand where all the other kids are lined up - it would be impossible for her to interfere and not look like the ass that she (apparently) is.

Unless, as stated, he is restrained from being in the other parent's presence which I believe is the case.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

This isn't true. The Family Law Act doesn't have anything to say about this, and there is no consistant trial decision to base it on.

Hi Mess,

It is Uric v. Uric and other parallel parenting orders in my opinion. There are countless well qualified Section 30 Custody and Access evaluators who have provided expert evidence to the court regarding a parent's day-to-day autonomy regarding custody and access. Reflex the Uric v. Uric decision and you will come across a pile now.

In fact, this is a key element of parallel parenting. For a parent such as Formygirls whom has admitted he has a restraining order against him I would recommend he operate in "parallel" of the parent in this matter. But, that is just my opinion.

If there was conflict it would be decided on a case by case basis, there is no black and white answer.

There is "good ideas" though. Based on the situation as described by Formygirls the situation sounds high-conflict. Unfortunately for him he is the one who is going to have to demonstrate he doesn't want conflict and avoid the conflict. It for many parents in this situation means documenting the problem and seeking resolution through other means rather than injecting conflict into a situation like this.

It's very common for both parents to attend doctor and dentist visits, sports practices and competitions, music recitals, graduation ceremonies. If a child was having an operation, in most cases both parents would attend at the hospital. This has nothing to do with who's access day it is. It is in the best interest of the child for both parents to be involved where possible.

This doesn't sound like a "shared parenting" situation at the moment at all. Considering Formygirls is stating the other parent is making "false allegations of domestic violence" against him I would avoid the situation all together. Just document the request didn't get answered and move on. Celebrate the first day of school another way.

Moreover in this circumstance there is no restriction on either parent from attending the school at any time and speaking with the teacher or principal. This has nothing to do with who's access time it is.

Actually, it all depends on the situation the parents are in. This situation doesn't sound like a great one at all.

I'd also say that in general it's a good idea to gently assert yourself in situtions like this, because if you cave in to an antagnistic parent then you end up getting locked out by instance after instance. That parent will then turn around and claim you are not involved with the child's schooling etc. as a claim for full custody.

If you document the request and it is not agreed to it is as good as going and trying to be involved. It should be enough to satisfy the court.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[mcdreamy]

I'm not worried about staying calm and avoiding the conflict .... it's her I am worried about.

I just don't see how the first day drop off is any different than any other school event. I have gone to Christmas concerts and school plays in the past, "Dad's day", and whatever events I can get to. Very rarely does the ex let me know about what is coming up. More often, I look at the school calendar online, or my 8 year old is mentioning the event and asking me to attend.

This is not one on one time. This is not taking away from her parenting time. It is about supporting your kids and letting them have the memories of growing up they should be allowed to have.

Twice in the past year, there have been school events on evenings of their very limited access periods with me. As per usual, I often find out these things the night before the access. Without a moment's hesitation, and both times finding out the night before, I changed our plans and made arrangements for our daughter to attend the events, so that both her mom and I could enjoy it. I wouldn't dream of telling her mom she shouldn't be there. As long as she doesn't sit beside me, who cares?

I have always tried to be careful with the language I use when communicating with the ex. It is never "my" access weekend... it is "the children's" access weekend. I remember coming across a passage from a judge, somewhere on CanLii (homework time - have to go back and find it!), where the judge stated along the lines that access time is not a right of either parent, it is a right of the children to have access to both parents.

So be careful in all your affidavits, motions, conference briefs, etc.... maybe some extra careful language will win you a few brownie points one day

Again, I appreciate all your opinions. I am trying to look at things from her perspective, and try to see why she wouldn't want me there. Other than personal reasons, I don't see the issue. Am I missing something? Am I really stepping on her "toes" by meeting the teacher and all that stuff (I do legally have access to the teachers and report cards and everything). It would be a lot easier for me tomorrow to not go - I am taking time off work to do it. And despite what some might think, I'm not doing it to piss off the ex. It would just be nice for my youngest especially, on her first day of school, to be able to share that with both my ex and myself. If I am missing something, please feel free to hit me with it!

Thanks

Good grief. I'm sorry your ex is not cooperating.

My ex, myself, and my now dh shared the 1st day, walked our dd together down from my house to her first day at school with our neighbors and her friends, and it is a great moment.

You might want to find out about the "meet the teacher" bbq/initial meeting for the young ones, in K, PK, and G1. There will be one. If you decide to forego tomorrow morning because of potential drama, there is more than likely, either this week or next week, a "meet the teacher" night that is casual, you can walk around the classroom and chit chat with fellow parents and the teacher.

In fact, now that I am typing this out.. I would suggest you find out from the school when that evening is. It's more fun and more informational than just directing them into their line-up on the first day.

[MommaMouse]

I wish my ex would be there for the kids first day. Go, it will look bad on your ex if she makes a scene for you wanting to be involved in your childs big day. Remember there will be a life time of events you will want to attend (concerts, plays, sports, graduation) All of these wont fall on your days but that doesn't mean you should be left out. If you start skipping them now your setting a precident that you will back off if she makes a big deal.

[formyGirls]

For some clarification,

There is no restraining order. It is an undertaking that binds me to "not communicate directly or indirectly" with the ex. There is no set distance to remain from her.

I spoke to the detective who wrote up the undertaking awhile ago about this kind of stuff. He just cautioned me, that I better be prepared to get up and walk away if she approaches me or gives me a hard time. I have been to several events now where she has been there. She came up to me at one, and started trying to drag me into a conversation about our divorce. I did have to walk away, and just replied "Sorry I can't talk and you know that. Have your lawyer email me." (The kids weren't around, or else I would have played nice for their sakes). She left me alone after that.

But there have been some good points here tonight... waiting for the parent teacher night next month might be a good option. I don't want to enable further conflict, but I am afraid if I keep backing away when she pushes, it will look like I am not that interested in the kids school either.

[mcdreamy]

Well then, I can assure you that my ex wondered why he had taken time off to attend the first day. I felt like an idiot making a production of it and taking pictures. It's a blur for the kids, and your dc won't care if you are there or not, it's about finding their friends.

Meet the teacher/BBQ/night is a bigger event, and our dd wanted all 3 of is to be there, so she could introduce us.