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Documentary on the male experience in separation and divorce

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  • #91
    If I was not 6 hours away from Ottawa I would participate. PM me if I can help in any other way.
    Seems this discussion has gone a "little" off topic.
    I know its a very heated debate about how people are treated in family court, and while I believe firmly that the main people who "lose" in family court are the children. I believe there is a bias against lower middle class people. The people who cannot afford a lawyer, but cannot get legal aid. People who are threatened with jobloss because they need to go to court. We all win when we put our children first, if only the system helped us towards that a little more we could get somewhere. Children need their parents, both of them. While I understand that is not always possible, it should be worked on. There are some mothers on here who have fought tooth and nail to get to where they are now, and do everything possible for their children and I respect that, and I know its hard for them. While this does happen I do feel that it is not the norm though. There is a meeting on Wednesday evening in Toronto for Fathers who are having trouble with family law, its a great resource for anyone who needs help.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      So, you can launch accusations based on nothing but pure speculation in public, but I must do it privately behind the scenes?
      Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion and really what you mean? My statements in evidence to the poster in question directly quotes statements made against me as a responder.

      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      With regards to what

      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      Tayken, honestly, I find it weird that I am arguing with you here. I explained myself pretty fully in my long previous post, if you wish to dispute my assertions, a response to that post would be more appropriate.
      Can you provide the link to the post in question and I will do that as requested.

      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      Also, there is a certain irony to you using the word "unsubstantiated" when referring to my words, when your responses to Steve in this thread are based on far less, at least as far as I can tell.
      Again, demonstrate what you are trying to communicate and I will address it. The statement is so vague it is hard to respond to honestly. Particulars do matter in trying to debate a topic.

      Good Luck!
      Tayken

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        The OP is looking for participants. I have taken part in (non-divorce) documentaries before. I never asked about the financing behind the project, I didn't care. They wanted to hear about my experiences on a number of issues, and I was willing to share all that I actually did share.

        I am surprised by your extremely aggressive tone Tayken. Steve has been very polite.
        SteveB has been very "avoidant". Mess addressed the expectations of honesty already in this thread and journalism.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Why does he have to be a champion of anything? He was looking at the male experience of divorce, I would be surprised if he felt that he was going to change the world.
        As we don't know the intent of the "documentary" other than to discuss topics such as "deadbeat dads" one can only question, which I and other have but, alas no response was provided as to the purpose and intent of the "documentary".

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Also, most documentaries are not made by experts... the producer interviews experts. For the male experience of divorce, the "experts" would be those who have suffered through a divorce.
        Actually, most good documentaries rely upon evidence at a minumum to support their case. Not just one (or 8) people's position.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        If the documentary was on "family law", then yeah, asking random people on a forum would be a little silly. I'll agree with you there.
        My major concern is that many of the people on this forum are coming regarding Family Law and related matters. Seperation and divorce is governed by the Divorce Act, Family Law Rules, Children's Law Reform Act, et all... So, any family break down when children are involved these prevaling rules and legislation exist to insure all people's rights... Most importantly the children.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        He may not even be doing a point-of-view documentary. He might just be covering the range of emotions and experiences of men going through a divorce, a gender that is (possibly stereotypically) often unable to voice their feelings publicly without public ridicule or shame.
        And Hammerdad actually addressed this problem quite well in another post. if done inappropriately and with the wrong intentions it will only serve to feed the polorized opinions which don't improve anything... They just make matters more worse, insight more confusion.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Maybe it will be a lousy documentary, maybe it will win awards. Maybe it will be balanced, maybe it will be full of venom. How would any of us know? The guy is asking for volunteers, and volunteers are free to walk away if they don't like the tone of the conversation or the questions that are being asked.
        And are they free to ask that the materials gathered not be used in the public domain?

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        That was a particularly egregious case, which hardly makes for good evidence of a balanced court system. Not saying that it is imbalanced, but one crazy women getting her ass kicked by a methodical, intelligent ex-husband is not proof, and you know it.
        That case isn't about a "crazy woman" and it is unfortunate you see it that way. It is about the court analyzing the best interests of children. Sad you see it that way as that is not how it is written by the justice.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        He wasn't stating his position, and I'm not sure if he even has to publicly. Let those who want to volunteer ask, and then they can make an appropriate choice.
        Informed decisions are the key thing. If SteveB is not informing the participant to intent, how the content will be used and for what purpose. You will find yourself just as Charlton Heston did in another documentary.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Tayken, a documentary is not a courtroom. Standards are not as high nor should they be as high.
        Watch "The Corporation" to see what a real documentary is...

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        If I "feel" like I was eviscerated by the system, then that is what I feel, regardless of the facts on the ground.
        But, to state your feelings as "fact" is "emotional reasoning". In fact, the thought of being "eviscerated" by the system is quite a strong feeling to have. Generally comes with vitriol and other unbalanced emotions and statements.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        If the documentary is about what happens in family court, then my feelings don't matter. If the documentary is about how I feel about my experience in family court, then my beliefs matter much more than any cogent and relevant facts.
        But, if your "beliefs" are sold as "facts" by the creator... It is just sensensationalism and not a documentary and best left, as murphyslaw puts it to daytime talk shows.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        You mean, the stories he "might" present are biased. Anyhow, most documentaries are biased in some way, I'm still not entirely sure why you are so pissed off about this guy recruiting in one of the most appropriate places on the internet.
        Why would you say a message board is an "appropriate place"? In fact, it is probably the last place you would go to for research.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Also, your statement about family law being about the children is a bit weird. I agree that the courts nominally look after the best interests of the children... but I have no idea what your statement has to do with the male experience of divorce. Would you interview a child to find out how a mother felt during the divorce proceedings?
        As to not have to go into balance of probabilities, the theory of evidence, and the best interests test for which is the only governing factor of custody and access decisions... It isn't "weird" it is the reality of the courts. (See the paper that I provided a link to.)

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Tayken, feel free to make your own documentary, interviewing only qualified people and funded from completely objective sources, to demonstrate that the family law system is extremely fair, using only cogent and relevent evidence.
        Why would anyone do that... The court system demonstrates this every day. In fact, for the 90% of people who don't use the court system to resolve custody and access issues is even more evidence in support of my perspective.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Go nuts! I would definitely watch your documentary, and would probably recommend it to others. You certainly appear to know your family law.
        Thanks for the "recommendation" but, I will continue to help real people with real problems.

        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        In the meantime, I see no need for you to go after Steve. He has staked out no positions, and made no claims. You are arguing against water vapour, and the thrashing is not really doing anything to support your position.
        Well, after having seen SteveB's responses to myself and Mess I think the intent of SteveB became clear based on his insults and personal attacks. Which is similar to all those who come "selling" an idea of a "documentary" or a "book" to everyone who uses this site.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #94
          Tayken:


          Again I have to give you a little slap on your hand. Why are you trying to use logic with emotionally charged people. Logic works with rational people. Logic works when a bigger picture is visioned.

          What I find personally sad is when the "children" are no longer considered a child of marriage as they are financially independant (just an observation) the pappas aren't whining and crying and fighting to get any access and neither are the 2nd wives going on rants here how horrible they feel for their new husbands that they don't get quality time. Seems to me $$$$$ directs how one feels and aches to be with their child.
          Has there ever been a post from a parent of an adult child and the consequences to the break down of a marriage or is the BIG picture just CS and how many hours and what percentage of time each can spend so we can calculate what we owe? Pathetic!!

          Comment


          • #95
            This thread is about a documentary on Men's perspective in family breakdown. Please avoid bitter/sarcastic sideways attacks and long-winded parsing-criticisms of other peoples stories.

            This thread is also not about:

            -Teaching what is and what is not a documentary (there's plenty of resources available through Google)
            -Therapy
            -Family Law

            The thread is simple: We are making a documentary film. If you want to help, please provide constructive ideas, or contact me in private as some very helpful members already have.

            If you are not interested in helping, please find another thread.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by SteveB View Post
              This thread is about a documentary on Men's perspective in family breakdown. Please avoid bitter/sarcastic sideways attacks and long-winded parsing-criticisms of other peoples stories.

              This thread is also not about:

              -Teaching what is and what is not a documentary (there's plenty of resources available through Google)
              -Therapy
              -Family Law

              The thread is simple: We are making a documentary film. If you want to help, please provide constructive ideas, or contact me in private as some very helpful members already have.

              If you are not interested in helping, please find another thread.
              Oh welcome back--I thought you left??? You mean you were just tricking us??????

              Those moderators I guess were not listening to your requests to be deleted,, too bad.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                This thread is about a documentary on Men's perspective in family breakdown. Please avoid bitter/sarcastic sideways attacks and long-winded parsing-criticisms of other peoples stories.
                This board is registered under the domain name "OttawaDivorce.com".

                It has topic areas titled:

                Divorce & Family Law
                Parenting Issues
                Financial Issues
                Political Issues
                Divorce Support
                General Chat
                Domestic Violence
                Introductions

                This thread is posted in "General Chat" which explicitly states:

                This forum is for discussing anything that doesn't fit into another forum, or for discussing things that are off topic, or just for general venting.
                Any thread posted to this section is open for discussion. Furthermore, considering the other areas of discussion it is really interesting that you state the following in contravention to the Rules governing this message board:

                This thread is also not about:

                -Teaching what is and what is not a documentary (there's plenty of resources available through Google)
                -Therapy
                -Family Law
                As part of the "General Chat" thread on a message board titled "OttawaDivorce" it is interesting that you would instruct users.

                Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                The thread is simple: We are making a documentary film. If you want to help, please provide constructive ideas, or contact me in private as some very helpful members already have.
                Constructive ideas: Provide a synopsis and outline of you, your background, your situation in the "Introductions" section of this forum.

                Originally posted by SteveB View Post
                If you are not interested in helping, please find another thread.
                Critical thinking is beneficial to any "documentary" being created and especially when it is about "deadbeat dads" (as explicitly stated by you) on a forum titled "OttawaDivorce.com" with the above mentioned topic areas.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #98
                  Out of 10 people who have voted, more then half believe that this may be a worthwhile think to look into.
                  Its funny how people who advocate "common sense" are arguing and ranting. Arguing opinion is a waste of time, why waste your breath trying to change someones opinion anyways? How much of a certain posters day was wasted trying to argue this? To me, with all their knowledge (no sarcasm whatsoever) they could best put their resources to helping people, not trying to break someone down.
                  Stay positive everyone, some of us are here for support and knowledge, and others should be here to support people and be a positive roll model.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by fireweb13 View Post
                    Out of 10 people who have voted, more then half believe that this may be a worthwhile think to look into.
                    Its funny how people who advocate "common sense" are arguing and ranting. Arguing opinion is a waste of time, why waste your breath trying to change someones opinion anyways? How much of a certain posters day was wasted trying to argue this? To me, with all their knowledge (no sarcasm whatsoever) they could best put their resources to helping people, not trying to break someone down.
                    Stay positive everyone, some of us are here for support and knowledge, and others should be here to support people and be a positive roll model.
                    Almost as interesting as:

                    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...oto-fun-13342/

                    If you ever wonder why fireweb you get little response from senior posters, or those you claim are "with all their knowledge" are not responding to your threads. It might be the petty nature for which you describe your ex-spouse and the lamenting you make over minor insignificant and irrelevant matters.

                    Another example being:

                    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-notice-12969/

                    One can only hope that you are chosen for the "group of 8" for this documentary and you can regale everyone about how your ex-partner is trying to subvert your parental "rights" through school photographs. That should make for compelling documentary footage about the struggles of "men" in family breakdowns.

                    My favourite quote from you fireweb is this one:

                    I am trying to build a court case and am trying to wait until the right time to go back so that I am not looking like an over eager ex to run to courts.
                    Great example for all parents on how to settle things and not engage in a litigated process. You would be a stunning example for all "men" on how to "win" at court.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken
                    Last edited by Tayken; 11-01-2012, 05:53 PM.

                    Comment


                    • What on earth is going on here? Such negativity. While some is to be expected this thread is starting to become a mud slinging thread. I recommend that it be closed

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                        Almost as interesting as:

                        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...oto-fun-13342/

                        If you ever wonder why fireweb you get little response from senior posters, or those you claim are "with all their knowledge" are not responding to your threads. It might be the petty nature for which you describe your ex-spouse and the lamenting you make over minor insignificant and irrelevant matters.

                        Another example being:

                        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-notice-12969/

                        One can only hope that you are chosen for the "group of 8" for this documentary and you can regale everyone about how your ex-partner is trying to subvert your parental "rights" through school photographs. That should make for compelling documentary footage about the struggles of "men" in family breakdowns.

                        My favourite quote from you fireweb is this one:



                        Great example for all parents on how to settle things and not engage in a litigated process. You would be a stunning example for all "men" on how to "win" at court.

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken
                        The only thing I can say is that I am bigger then that Tayken. I am not going to respond to any mudslinging.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by fireweb13 View Post
                          The only thing I can say is that I am bigger then that Tayken. I am not going to respond to any mudslinging.
                          Better left to slinging mud at your ex-partner in other threads and your affidavit materials.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken
                          Last edited by Tayken; 11-01-2012, 09:03 PM.

                          Comment

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