Wow NBDAD, that is not a happy picture there. Sad but very true.
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Originally posted by NBDad View PostHopefully your ex is a complete idiot...otherwise...here's how she screws you.
Step 1: Quit her job (he's not paying child support *sob sob*)
Step 2: Go on welfare (I need to protect the kids SOMEHOW *sob sob*)
Step 3: Collect free legal aid lawyer
Step 4: File for exclusive possession of Mat home + temp orders for you to continue servicing ALL the bills as per the status quo + temp orders for full table amounts of child support.
Thanks again.
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Just be honest and straightforward with her. Tell her you can't afford to keep going as things are, and you both need to move on. Warn her you will be closing accounts to frills, as suggested, like cable, internet, long distance, and that you will be arranging to transfer other essential utilities into her name as she is the one still residing in the home. Once things are in her own name, you just pay her a monthly amount, estimated based on child support (impute her an income if you have the children enough to only pay an offset amount) plus some spousal support amount if you still make significantly more than she does even if you assume she could work full time. Then, as the one thing you can't remove your name from is the mortgage, as you absolutely want to keep paying that, give her a monthly cheque, as suggested previously, using the memo field to itemize CS+SS-1/2 the mortgage payment. Then if that's insufficient, it's up to her to start going through her savings and racking up her own credit cards and realizing the house has to be sold.
Meanwhile, be as frugal as you can, and use the money you save only on essentials. Financial protection mode for a while will help in the long run, as previously mentioned, especially if you owe her arrears once the dust settles.
Good luck!
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Originally posted by Rioe View PostJust be honest and straightforward with her. Tell her you can't afford to keep going as things are, and you both need to move on. Warn her you will be closing accounts to frills, as suggested, like cable, internet, long distance, and that you will be arranging to transfer other essential utilities into her name as she is the one still residing in the home. Once things are in her own name, you just pay her a monthly amount, estimated based on child support (impute her an income if you have the children enough to only pay an offset amount) plus some spousal support amount if you still make significantly more than she does even if you assume she could work full time. Then, as the one thing you can't remove your name from is the mortgage, as you absolutely want to keep paying that, give her a monthly cheque, as suggested previously, using the memo field to itemize CS+SS-1/2 the mortgage payment. Then if that's insufficient, it's up to her to start going through her savings and racking up her own credit cards and realizing the house has to be sold.
Meanwhile, be as frugal as you can, and use the money you save only on essentials. Financial protection mode for a while will help in the long run, as previously mentioned, especially if you owe her arrears once the dust settles.
Good luck!
Is there anyone who can help me out with a proposal, ie something that I can e-mail her outlining what to do. Since school finishes eom June I was thinking about agreeing to put the home up for sale but not close until the kids are done, this way they are not transferred 3/4 way through. It gives her time to find a new place and from what everyone her has been telling me I have basically forefeited my chnaces of shared custody, without going to court. For now I would allow her to be the CP as long as it is joint custody (let me know if you think differently). Equity from sale gets paid out to debt and I will also give her first/last for rent for her as she will have the kids. She can keep 90% of items in the home, I have been without them for so long anyway. We will set up a visitation schedule that we both agree too and I will pay her what the time table states for CS but will not agree to backdate because of what I have been paying this whole time to ensure they are comfortable and nothing goes into default. Because of that though I will give the option of a lump sum payment for the first year, as it is alot easier to take care of things when you have a nice sum of $$ in the bank. I am not interested in agreeing to any SS or Pension etc as like I said she can go back to work and if she tries anything funny I can show her on the system as of today etc and will say she is intentionally trying to make her situation look worse. In the end, it sucks now because I am willing to just walk away from so much but I now realize that rebuilding is > than living in the past trying to deal with this.
I know alot of what I write may be in a perfect world etc but I have to try first, right. Again thank you for your knowledge and responses and if anyone has some sort of proposal template or advice on how to structure this, while creating to her a bit of urgency, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.
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Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostThanks for the response Rioe, man the more responses I get the more I wonder if things are going to just turn out bad for me .
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostSo this is the problem, if I pay her in CS, etc what she is owed I will not be able to afford 50% of the mortgage as well as my other monthly obligations without eventually having to file for bankruptcy, which I do not want as an option. Then she will very easily be able to afford the home + utilities etc + debt leaving me in a worse position then now. I am then sure she could hold out even longer if she wanted too.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostIn reading more from these forums it appears that going to court is ridiculously expensive and I have to believe that she will not go this option + I do not want to finance her the means to do so.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostMaybe I am wrong here but even in worse case scenario I can prove that even though not in the form of CS, that my kids + her were taken care of this whole time and that she was the one who chose not to put the house on the market.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostBank agreement superceeds all and any court order, so even if the judge ordered just me to pay, the bank could still go after both of us through their contract. So in a sense it sucks because either way I go there is potential legal action. I think someone on here posted that 3 hours of court was something like $6000 which is easily an eye opener to get things done, inexpensively.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostI continue to try, as I will today to be rational with her and trying to make her see for the kids best interest, not sticking it to each other, but it just sucks when she knows she has lots of control and definitely uses it to her advantage.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostIs there anyone who can help me out with a proposal, ie something that I can e-mail her outlining what to do.
Also read "Tug of War" by Brownstone, for how to get through this process with the least impact on your children. If you can get your ex to read this one, that might help too.
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostSince school finishes eom June I was thinking about agreeing to put the home up for sale but not close until the kids are done, this way they are not transferred 3/4 way through. It gives her time to find a new place and from what everyone her has been telling me I have basically forefeited my chnaces of shared custody, without going to court. For now I would allow her to be the CP as long as it is joint custody (let me know if you think differently).
Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View PostEquity from sale gets paid out to debt and I will also give her first/last for rent for her as she will have the kids. She can keep 90% of items in the home, I have been without them for so long anyway. We will set up a visitation schedule that we both agree too and I will pay her what the time table states for CS but will not agree to backdate because of what I have been paying this whole time to ensure they are comfortable and nothing goes into default. Because of that though I will give the option of a lump sum payment for the first year, as it is alot easier to take care of things when you have a nice sum of $$ in the bank. I am not interested in agreeing to any SS or Pension etc as like I said she can go back to work and if she tries anything funny I can show her on the system as of today etc and will say she is intentionally trying to make her situation look worse. In the end, it sucks now because I am willing to just walk away from so much but I now realize that rebuilding is > than living in the past trying to deal with this.
I know alot of what I write may be in a perfect world etc but I have to try first, right. Again thank you for your knowledge and responses and if anyone has some sort of proposal template or advice on how to structure this, while creating to her a bit of urgency, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.Last edited by Rioe; 02-18-2011, 01:38 PM.
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Rioe, amazing post and thank you for your advice. I hope I do not come across completely dumbfounded this is my first time going through something like this and it really makes you become OCD-ish.
Here is what I previously did, I moved my pay from our joint account to my own single account and switched the mortgage payments, biweekly, to come out of my single account. So if I understand what you are saying I should have my mortgage payment switched to come out of the previous joint bank account again but only pay for one of them (To switch it to monthly I believe I will need her to agree with this, which I do not believe will happen). Send her an e-mail indicating that she will need to take ownership of the utilities as of (one month from today) and I just want to clarify the last part. I will use simple numbers here: So if I pay $1000 biweekly (say $2k per month) for the mortgage and my CS table is $1500, I would pay my one biweekly mortgage payment and write a cheque of child support for $1500 minus the amount of her half $1000? Is this right? So in this example I pay my one payment and give her $500 support and she makes the other payment?
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1: Organize regular visitation with your kids.
2: Stop paying her bills.
3: If you are paying 2000 bi-weekly, you pay 1000.00 of that bi-weekly amount.
4: If child support guideline amount is 1500, you either pay her 1500 and require her to pay her part of the mortgage, or you pay her 1000 in mortgage with the child support and give her the remaining balance of 500 for living expenses.
if you choose to pay her mortgage and give her the balance, you need to put that in writing and be sure that it's clear that it is CHILD SUPPORT.Last edited by Pharah; 02-18-2011, 04:12 PM.
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Originally posted by Pharah View Post1: Organize regular visitation with your kids.
2: Stop paying her bills.
3: If you are paying 2000 bi-weekly, you pay 1000.00 of that bi-weekly amount.
4: If child support guideline amount is 1500, you either pay her 1500 and require her to pay her part of the mortgage, or you pay her 1000 in mortgage with the child support and give her the remaining balance of 500 for living expenses.
if you choose to pay her mortgage and give her the balance, you need to put that in writing and be sure that it's clear that it is CHILD SUPPORT.
Ok, thank you for your response but I want to be clear here. Let me change it up for this example:
1) Mortgage total $2000 per month
2) My half total would be $1000 per month
3) Child support is total $1500 per month
4) No utilities
I either give her $1500 per month CS + pay $1000 for mortgage and half of all other joint debts excluding utilities
or
I pay $2000 mortgage and write her a cheque for $500 child support and pay half of our other debts excluding utilities
Am I understanding this right?
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Yes, but if you choose part B of that scenario:
I pay $2000 mortgage and write her a cheque for $500 child support and pay half of our other debts excluding utilities
You have to stress that a 1000.00 of the mortgage that you paid is child support. I would think she would have to agree to this arrangement as well, otherwise just give her child support.
One more thing, you don't give her money for your joint debit. You pay that directly and make sure you have receipts.
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Wow, so this puts me worse off then I am now. we acclumulated a ton of debt which we would have been able to absorb into the homes equity.
Total unsecured not including mortgage or utilities is another $1420, not including my own insurance etc.
Seriously, how can I afford to pay her $500 more than I already am by paying the full mortgage and keep up the rest of the debts. As it is right now she pays our joint loan & loc but will probably ask for half once I try this.
This is unreal............
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Okay, I can see this still isn't coming across clearly. Using your sample monthly numbers:
Your situation now:
You pay all of her utilities. You pay all mortgage payments ($2k). You are not recognized as paying any child support if this goes to court.
The situation you want:
You pay none of her utilities. She pays them all. You pay all mortgage payments ($2k). You pay her child support ($1500), but you subtract half the mortgage ($1k) from it to represent her paying you back for her half. So you are writing her a cheque for only $500. Hopefully you are saving around that much by not paying her utilities any longer. It may not work out much differently financially, but you are making it clear to her that you will not pay blindly for her expenses, and you are working further towards separating the finances, and ultimately selling the house. Plus, if/when you hit court, it's obvious you've been putting the children first and paying child support.
Absolutely don't put any money in a joint account. Your finances are not joint any longer - those accounts should all be closed. That just puts it where she can get to it and spend it however she likes, then you run the risk of defaulting on a mortgage payment.
As for all these other joint debts you seem to have, divide them up fairly as best you can. If you are paying more than half the share towards them, subtract more from the child support amount if you have to to get it even.
Honestly, the more I hear about your situation, the more I think you want to serve her papers and get to court. Any expense you pay for court to get that house sold is probably going to be less than you are wasting now paying an unfair share of all this debt and bills.
I like your idea of giving her the timeline of the end of the school year for the house. That shows you are being reasonable and putting the best interests of your children first, but gives her a deadline. And still do the utilities switch, to show her you mean business.
Right now, she is just coasting, living in a house you pay for and letting you look after the bills and most of the debt. Of course she's going to want to let that continue as long as possible, but deep down inside, she has to know it'll end someday. If you show her a realistic and fair plan for the future, hopefully she'll recognize it and work with you. If not, take her to court.
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Originally posted by Rioe View PostOkay, I can see this still isn't coming across clearly. Using your sample monthly numbers:
Your situation now:
You pay all of her utilities. You pay all mortgage payments ($2k). You are not recognized as paying any child support if this goes to court.
The situation you want:
You pay none of her utilities. She pays them all. You pay all mortgage payments ($2k). You pay her child support ($1500), but you subtract half the mortgage ($1k) from it to represent her paying you back for her half. So you are writing her a cheque for only $500. Hopefully you are saving around that much by not paying her utilities any longer. It may not work out much differently financially, but you are making it clear to her that you will not pay blindly for her expenses, and you are working further towards separating the finances, and ultimately selling the house. Plus, if/when you hit court, it's obvious you've been putting the children first and paying child support.
Absolutely don't put any money in a joint account. Your finances are not joint any longer - those accounts should all be closed. That just puts it where she can get to it and spend it however she likes, then you run the risk of defaulting on a mortgage payment.
As for all these other joint debts you seem to have, divide them up fairly as best you can. If you are paying more than half the share towards them, subtract more from the child support amount if you have to to get it even.
Honestly, the more I hear about your situation, the more I think you want to serve her papers and get to court. Any expense you pay for court to get that house sold is probably going to be less than you are wasting now paying an unfair share of all this debt and bills.
I like your idea of giving her the timeline of the end of the school year for the house. That shows you are being reasonable and putting the best interests of your children first, but gives her a deadline. And still do the utilities switch, to show her you mean business.
Right now, she is just coasting, living in a house you pay for and letting you look after the bills and most of the debt. Of course she's going to want to let that continue as long as possible, but deep down inside, she has to know it'll end someday. If you show her a realistic and fair plan for the future, hopefully she'll recognize it and work with you. If not, take her to court.
Thanks again Rioe, if it is ok with you I would like to list my actual amounts, rounded to the nearest dollar, so I can be sure I am doing this properely.
I have taken everything I pay biweekly and changed it to monthly as CS is monthly and it just makes things easier to break dowm.
Of our debt together, we have two credit cards which are in my name solely that we used to acquire debt together, cash advance for down payment, items for home etc. I realize that these are legally mine but as of now she is still including these items as joint so for this I will continue with that train of thought.
Mortgage monthly $1970 so half of that is $985 (includes tax payment)
Credit Card $450 average
Credit Card $260 average
Alarm for home $35
Home Insurance $45 ( I think you are going to tell me that she should now pay the alarm & home insurance)
My CS guideline from income earned in 2010 is $1340 per month
Even though 30 days is not up I will not include utilities etc, oh and I switched my account because she was paying her cellphone + son's cellphone, gas etc all from my pay and I was left with nothing. Some of her cellphone bills were $150+/month.
What she pays:
Our joint loan $540 per month
Our Line of Credit $150 per month
Her own cellphone/groceries and some small own credit card payments she got after I left.
When I moved out she wrote to the government and now receives a $1800/month CTC + her daycare income of $200 avergae per week. As I appreciate the help, she makes sure that I know what she has paid and tries to make me feel guilty, like I should be paying for everything.
So with me paying for the mortgage etc, I can see how it isn't inspiring her to leave. I do feel so guilty though having to make my little ones leave there brand new home
So from your formula if I quickly subtract her half of the payment from the timetable CS we are left with $355 owing for CS.
If I take my two credit card debts $710 total montly and the joint loan + loc that she is paying it alos comes to $710, which appears to be a wash then.
So if I inform her that she will be responsible for the alarm of the home + insurance since she is residing their and I have listed all debt we pay, should I be mailing her a monthly cheque for $355 and labeling it Child Support?
Also, I moved back for two month in September/October of 2010, would it be smart of me to backdate from November 2010? Or only if she makes that claim?
I just worry that she will use the $355 towards the utilites anyway and she will still have both mortgage payments being made etc.
Thanks again
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