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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 09-25-2020, 10:53 AM
Comfortably Numb Comfortably Numb is offline
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Originally Posted by pinkHouses View Post
I suppose anything is possible but a Miglin release is supposed to take care of this, or so I thought. It has clauses about the fairness of the negotiation etc.
My lawyer told me that the clause and term cannot be changed. I cannot reduce the spousal support and it will terminate forever.

Yes, keeping an eye on this thread.
There are more recent cases where Miglin is not followed, but I do agree that the two fundamental principles that can save the day are fairness and legal representation. However, there is the issue of how to use the spousal support terms of agreement from a separation agreement in a divorce application. If the terms are included in the divorce order, then when spousal support is challenged the court can only focus on those specific terms in the order. However, if the terms were not included in the divorce order, a court challenge from the ex can result in opening the entire spousal support issue from scratch, giving existing agreement some weight. These are my distant memories of this, but I could have missed some other details. Therefore, if you have a separation agreement that includes spousal support terms, you should ask yourself whether it's better or worse to include the spousal support terms in the divorce order. Both ways, to include or not to include, have advantages and disadvantages. So depending on what you want the outcome to be, and how confident you are that your agreement is fair and followed closely the Divorce Act and Family Law Act, you may or my not want to include the spousal support terms in the divorce order. Miglin and caselaw cases following Miglin can shed some light, but I hope other more knowledge members here can chime in.
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pinkHouses View Post
I searched for Arabian's posts, found 25 and while he did mention Spousal Support may never end he did not give any details.

Canlii serach "spousal support" and "terminate forever" showed no cases where the spousal support was extended beyond the termination date. There were instances where the payer wanted to stop paying early and lost.

There were cases where the judge simply ruled it ended forever.

So I am confused with the statement it never ends.
I think a better search using keywords "Miglin" and spousal support in divorce order, etc. will be more relevant to discuss termination, etc.
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2020, 11:47 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Just because she can take you to court doesnt mean she will win and you can demand costs. Leaving the country means nothing as a judgement could be made in your absence and then if you come back and there is an order against you they can seize your passport. Why run away from this when you are in the right?

If your kids dont live away at university then you still have to pay child support which is another added complication in your grand plan.

The family law systems is unfair in places and there are those who are able to manipulate it but planning a mass exodus or even a political campaign is simply a waste of time and energy. Stop focusing on ridiculous measures and live your life. You ex has a phd and is lazy. Neither of those demonstrate she is entitled to a continuation of support so relax.

As for Arabian...SHE won spousal support from her ex husband as he methodically withdrew assets from a 20+ year business they built together. He sold equipment, emptied accounts and hid money in his gf and her familys accounts. She wasnt some lazy ass money grubber trying to bleed him dry. Her assets were stolen from her and she lost her business she had been running. Her ex (his gf led this effort) continued to file motions annually to stop paying it and lost every time because they had an iron clad agreement that was upheld by the court.


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  #14  
Old 09-25-2020, 12:36 PM
Comfortably Numb Comfortably Numb is offline
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Just because she can take you to court doesn�t mean she will win and you can demand costs. Leaving the country means nothing as a judgement could be made in your absence and then if you come back and there is an order against you they can seize your passport. Why run away from this when you are in the right?

If your kids don�t live away at university then you still have to pay child support which is another added complication in your grand plan.

The family law systems is unfair in places and there are those who are able to manipulate it but planning a mass exodus or even a political campaign is simply a waste of time and energy. Stop focusing on ridiculous measures and live your life. You ex has a phd and is lazy. Neither of those demonstrate she is entitled to a continuation of support so relax.

As for Arabian...SHE won spousal support from her ex husband as he methodically withdrew assets from a 20+ year business they built together. He sold equipment, emptied accounts and hid money in his gf and her family�s accounts. She wasn�t some lazy ass money grubber trying to bleed him dry. Her assets were stolen from her and she lost her business she had been running. Her ex (his gf led this effort) continued to file motions annually to stop paying it and lost every time because they had an iron clad agreement that was upheld by the court.


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Thank you rockscan. I appreciate your comments. I did not comment on arabian and I am not aware of her situation, but I do sympathize. I hope she's doing fine now.

My "grand" plan of leaving the country it always was there, but originally was to spend only half the time away from Canada once I retire. My frustration and anxiety was based on observing the situation of a close friend of mine who is currently divorced. My friend's ex took him to court five times to change the separation agreement, mainly the spousal support terms, and she lost five times. However, all that took a big toll on him, and he remains at a loss on why our Family Law system allows such a farse.

When my ex told me that she will no longer try to find employment, because it has been difficult for her to secure a job, I asked her how is she going to survive when in very few years the child support and spousal support will stop as per the SA. Her response was: I have already planned to go see my lawyer. So I too called my lawyer who told me she can always go to court but doesn't mean she'll win. Since the separation agreement, or rather the spousal support terms, are not included in the court final order, the court will look at the entirety of the SA to determine whether certain rules were followed (this is Miglin caselaw aftermath precedent). I felt enraged on why our Family Law system allows such thing, in the case where the separation agreement was negotiated fairly with full legal representation, etc. I spent five tortures years in negotiations before finally we arrived at a solid, fair and legal SA. I am not ready to go through something like that again, eventhough my ex's chance of success is slim...
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  #15  
Old 09-25-2020, 12:58 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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It doesnt mean you will have to go through an additional several years.

My advice is to stop worrying about your ex and what she may or may not do. All it will do it feed into anxiety and anger. You cant change her, you can only change your reaction to her.

Let her go and file something. Your case is not the same as your friend and there are plenty of cases where the case was dismissed. You dont know what will happen or whether she will be successful. She has probably been told one of two things by her lawyershe has no case or she has a case because they want her money. In the end the lawyer wins.

Live your life. Your kids will grow up and get married and have kids of their own which you will enjoy. Dont waste any more energy on her.
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  #16  
Old 09-25-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
It doesn�t mean you will have to go through an additional several years.

My advice is to stop worrying about your ex and what she may or may not do. All it will do it feed into anxiety and anger. You can�t change her, you can only change your reaction to her.

Let her go and file something. Your case is not the same as your friend and there are plenty of cases where the case was dismissed. You don�t know what will happen or whether she will be successful. She has probably been told one of two things by her lawyer�she has no case or she has a case because they want her money. In the end the lawyer wins.

Live your life. Your kids will grow up and get married and have kids of their own which you will enjoy. Don�t waste any more energy on her.
Thank you again. You're right, my lawyer said similar thing and he added that her case may be dismissed from the start, etc.
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2020, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Thank you again. You're right, my lawyer said similar thing and he added that her case may be dismissed from the start, etc.

My husband spends a lot of time worrying about what might happen or what is happening that he doesnt know about. It is normal for people who go through these situations. I have read that divorce can result in PTSD for some people. Focus on the things you can control rather than things you cant. You arent a bad person and did everything you were responsible for. If your ex wants to hold onto anger and resentment thats on her. Living the best life is the greatest thing you can do!
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  #18  
Old 09-25-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Here is my worry that is keeping me stressed even three years after divorce, my ex may in the future go to court to ask to change the terms of current separation agreement to ask for more spousal support
Based on what you have said, it seems like it would be extremely unlikely. Fixed term spousal support, educated ex, pension divided at source, independent legal advice... yeah, you're good. Probably one of the most solid "won't be revisited" cases I've seen on this forum in a while.

Could she try? Of course she can, but when she loses she would have to pay for a good chunk of your lawyer. There are only so many times people can play that game.

That said, if your need for dramatic theatrics leads you to flee from Canada, you're free to do that.
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  #19  
Old 09-25-2020, 03:23 PM
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Arabian is a she not a he. Her husband has been dragging her back to court every year for years after their divorce was settled and over. They live in different provinces and he still serves her with papers every year despite never being successful. She no longer hires a lawyer and now files the appropriate forms to respond to his materials. Her case is a prime example of the fact that your ex can take you to court forever as long as they live. In these cases it seems like the party who keeps going back to court has unresolved issues with their former partner and does not wish to move on and let them go.
In such cases, moving to another province and/or country without leaving a forwarding address may be your only option if you want to be truely done with court. The problem arises if you have to exchange NOA’s yearly or if you have dependent children whom visit with the other parent.
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Arabian is a she not a he. Her husband has been dragging her back to court every year for years after their divorce was settled and over. They live in different provinces and he still serves her with papers every year despite never being successful. She no longer hires a lawyer and now files the appropriate forms to respond to his materials. Her case is a prime example of the fact that your ex can take you to court forever as long as they live. In these cases it seems like the party who keeps going back to court has unresolved issues with their former partner and does not wish to move on and let them go.
In such cases, moving to another province and/or country without leaving a forwarding address may be your only option if you want to be truely done with court. The problem arises if you have to exchange NOA’s yearly or if you have dependent children whom visit with the other parent.
I believe he passed away so Arabian is no longer subject to constant court battles.
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