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Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #1  
Old 08-17-2015, 10:18 PM
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Default Vacations/Appointments Question

Good evening.

I wanted to ask a few separate questions here to stimulate some discussion regarding the proper way for separated parents to handle vacations/Dr. Appointments on the interim, when custody has not yet been decided.

Vacations:

It s quite obvious that ex is setting roots in QC. D4 says she rarely sleeps in Ottawa. Every time I drop her off ex is packing the car. D4 runs to her asking if they're going to mtl and ex says yes.

I have a mobility clause that deals with relocation. It clearly states that it's in place to maintain an effective status quo in Ottawa. Not another province. But it's only in effect for relocation.

My question is, since I'm not okay with status quo being built in QC .. and not knowing where D4 is half the time, I want my ex to be cognizant that I would like the details, the time of departure/return, and my consent to leave the province.

Is this a reasonable request .. given my situation?
Just some info I found: Section 7: Travel - Parenting Plan Tool


Dr's Appt's:

My ex has purposely not invited me to Dr./Dentist appointments, only notifying me afterwards. Following the abduction I didn't know their whereabouts and she unilaterally switched our family Dr., withholding all health/welfare info for many months, including the new Dr's/Dentist.

I would like to continue to be involved in D4's life when it comes to appointments, etc. I invite her to every appointment, every special event .. it's just not returned.

Do I have the right to request that I have notification of any appointments a week or two before and somehow be involved? I feel like it's a very sneaky way for her to achieve her goals. Abduct, hide, change Dr's, keep me out of the loop.

I attended every single appointment with D4 pre-separation. She just chose to not have me involved anymore. I disagree with her decision to keep me out of the loop.

Thanks you for your help,

LF32
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:28 PM
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Yes, both requests are reasonable. It's great if you can get it into an order so maybe she takes it more seriously. But....how enforceable are they? And who will enforce it?

Having your home declared primary residence would help with the first issue, so the child must not be relocated outside of her customary area, aside from short vacations. I was just reading the wording of this, let me see if I can find it for you. brb.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:27 AM
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Here's some info that deals with standard clauses - relocation and mobility being in there (see pages 13 - 14 "Mobility Issues and Restrictions on Travel or Removal from Jurisdiction")

Standard-Clauses-for-Orders-EN.doc — Ontario Court Services

Specifically in regards to Vacations - section 5.8.

Is this something she does only in the summer, ie: like a family cottage? or does she do this for all her time with kidlet and will she really claim it is all vacation time?

If so...how does one sign up to get that vacation package, I want in.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:45 AM
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Is this something she does only in the summer, ie: like a family cottage? or does she do this for all her time with kidlet and will she really claim it is all vacation time?

If so...how does one sign up to get that vacation package, I want in.[/QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by blinkandimgone View Post
Is this something she does only in the summer, ie: like a family cottage? or does she do this for all her time with kidlet and will she really claim it is all vacation time?
The latter for sure. This isn't just a summer thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkandimgone View Post
Here's some info that deals with standard clauses - relocation and mobility being in there (see pages 13 - 14 "Mobility Issues and Restrictions on Travel or Removal from Jurisdiction")

Standard-Clauses-for-Orders-EN.doc — Ontario Court Services

Specifically in regards to Vacations - section 5.8.
Great document Blink. Thank you.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 08-18-2015 at 01:22 AM. Reason: spell
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:54 AM
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You're entitled to have access to all of D4s medical professionals whether your ex cares or not. Was the former family doctor in Ontario asked to forward files and patient medical history to a new doctor. You would have a right to ask the former doctor to whom the file was transferred.

Second, can D4 be seen by medical professionals in Quebec as a regular non-emergency patient if she's supposed to be an Ontario resident? presumably she should have only an Ontario health card.
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Old 08-19-2015, 10:25 AM
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Yes. My original family Dr indicated that she hadn't heard from D4 or ex. She unilaterally switched Dr's.

Ex stated in her affidavit that she provided her new Dr. information to me shortly after visits began. But really, she provided it 8 months later, after repeated, polite requests.

So now she attends appointments and only tells me afterwards. All I would ask is that we both notify each other of future appointments, the nature of the appointments, etc.

Quote:
can D4 be seen by medical professionals in Quebec as a regular non-emergency patient if she's supposed to be an Ontario resident? presumably she should have only an Ontario health card.
Good question NFC.

It seems only if it is recommended by an Ontario Practitioner and it is approved by the ministry:

As seen below:

Quote:
Out of Province Services - Ontario Health Insurance Plan - Ministry Programs - Public Information - MOHLTC

Non-emergency planned medical care required in Canada but outside Ontario. These services are requested or recommended by either an Ontario physician or a physician who will be providing the services in another province or territory. The ministry requires that certain insured services be approved prior to the medical service(s) being provided.
So it's a bit cloudy, because it seems ex can get a referral from a QC Dr and the QC Dr can get the OOP funding approved (if all conditions are met). So It's a bit cloudy to me.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:35 PM
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Re mobility, I think the requirement for both parents' consent is really only justifiable if international borders are involved (when the child is being taken out of the country). I doubt an inter-provincial requirement for consent would be enforceable (especially when the provinces involved are Ontario and QC, right next to each other). As long as Mom returns Kid to Dad at the appointed time, where she goes during her parenting time is her decision. Dad knows where Kid is (at Grandma's place) and can reach Mom in emergencies (cellphone), so there's no need for his consent to be sought every time.

If the concern is that Mom will take Kid and not return her, an inter-provincial mobility consent clause won't prevent that. It will just create a lot of unnecessary bickering between Mom and Dad, because Mom will view this (not unreasonably) as attempting to micromanage her movements. Establishing where Kid will attend school (school district) or where she will reside (within a set radius) will do more to ensure that Kid stays where she is supposed to stay than any clause which impinges on Mom's time.

As for medical notification, both parents are entitled to all of Kid's medical records, and you could put in a clause saying that each parent will notify the other when they make an appointment for Kid with any medical practitioner, and in the event of urgent medical treatment (when no appointment is made), will notify the other as soon as reasonably possible. But I doubt that would be enforceable.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Dad at the appointed time, where she goes during her parenting time is her decision.
Agree .. to a certain extent. The motion judge indicated that he was initiating the mobility clause to ensure an effective status quo was being laid in this current city. D4 says she barely sleeps in this city and ex tells me she's going to QC all the time. She's packing luggage in the car the moment I arrive.

I get what you're saying .. I just hope some kind of foundation is being laid in this community, not QC's .. as per the motion judges intention.

Quote:
Dad knows where Kid is (at Grandma's place) and can reach Mom in emergencies (cellphone)
No, I dont know where she is. There are friends, family .. and her father who lives very deep in QC. Friend's of friend's have seen her in the clubs in mtl partying .. which is fine .. just curious where D4 is.
Quote:
so there's no need for his consent to be sought every time.
Seems to be a fairly standard clause in many family law cases. And the majority stipulate that consent is required when leaving the province, not just the country.

Thanks for the advice though Stripes. It probably would cause some unnecessary bickering. I'm just hoping that ex is following judges orders and not spending every second laying roots in mtl.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 08-21-2015 at 11:53 PM. Reason: spell
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:59 PM
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My agreement has a paragraph about needing to inform my ex if I plan to take the children out of the province. Not get consent before doing so, just inform in advance. It wasn't anything either of us asked to have put in there, so it is probably pretty standard.

Of course, the only time I ever took the kids out of province since signing it was only for a few hours and I completely forgot about the clause.
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Agree .. to a certain extent. The motion judge indicated that he was initiating the mobility clause to ensure an effective status quo was being laid in this current city. D4 says she barely sleeps in this city and ex tells me she's going to QC all the time. She's packing luggage in the car the moment I arrive.

I get what you're saying .. I just hope some kind of foundation is being laid in this community, not QC's .. as per the motion judges intention.


No, I dont know where she is. There are friends, family .. and her father who lives very deep in QC. Friend's of friend's have seen her in the clubs in mtl partying .. which is fine .. just curious where D4 is.

Seems to be a fairly standard clause in many family law cases. And the majority stipulate that consent is required when leaving the province, not just the country.

Thanks for the advice though Stripes. It probably would cause some unnecessary bickering. I'm just hoping that ex is following judges orders and not spending every second laying roots in mtl.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it really isn't any of your business where Mom is at any time, including the time when she's with Kid. The only thing that's your business is whether Kid is safe (and there's no reason to think she's not) and whether Mom is following existing orders concerning residence and custody (which an interprovincial parental consent clause will do nothing to address, if she's determined not to follow the order). Similarly, your whereabouts and your arrangements with friends and family are none of Mom's business either.

My ex took our kid on a week-long holiday last month - I knew vaguely where they were going (what part of what province) but he didn't tell me their itinerary and I didn't ask. All I need to know is that Kid can be reached in case of an emergency and that Kid will be returned to me per the schedule. Ex also goes out of town frequently during his parenting time and leaves Kid with relatives of his wife, whom I don't know. I don't love not knowing where my daughter is and I wish he wouldn't leave her with his mother-in-law rather than spending time with her, but I recognize that she is safe and her father is not going to put her into any jeopardy, even if his parenting practices are not the same as mine. For my part, I do provide detailed information about where we're going if I go out of town with her, but this is because I think it's a good practice, not because I think he has a right to know.
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