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Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #41  
Old 09-02-2015, 08:01 PM
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mcdreamy mcdreamy is offline
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Thanks HD,

So, to sum up, it appears the consensus of the forum, as previously noted, is that both notice and consent for provincial crossings should be a non-issue.

We should continue the discussion re: proper etiquette relating to medical appointments for which, I think, was the 2nd part of the original question as to how separated parents handle appointments.

I took medical and the ex took dental. I can’t recall that that we did that for any particular reason – it just seemed to make sense at the time. We didn’t notify the other of regular checkup appointments other than vaguely mentioning appointments had been booked, and we only updated the other if anything interesting happened. Our kidlet was a normal, healthy kid – never anything to report really. Of course, if she'd fractured or broken a bone I would have immediately advised, as I would anticipate the ex would do likewise.

Maybe we’ve been parallel parenting? How many posters with shared, with sole, or with joint, attend all medical and dental appointments or require notice of same?
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2015, 11:40 PM
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Not sure if it's the consensus. Posters such as Blink, Rioe and many others that PM'd me had a different take. I think in many circumstances that you are indeed correct. It's just not needed .. non-issue for sure. However .. I disagree with you that it's a primitive, old clause that has no place in new age parenting. I read many cases where it's applied .. in 2015 and other recent caselaw.

In any case I stand by my statement that every case is very different, as I sure you would agree.

I would tend to place the same emphasis on "details of the case" on appt's. Your ex wasn't attempting to portray your child as a victim with emotional issues, trying to seek out DV witness counselor's for a child who has never witnessed violence. Again .. I think it depends on the details of the case.

I certainly dont need to be at appts. But I was a father who attended every appt and was very involved before the abduction. I would like to be kept up to date on appt's, when they are and how they went. Just as my ex would for my appt's with D4.

If there's a dental appt approaching for D4 and she's a bit anxious about it, (or medical appt where she may have a needle) it may benefit her to have both parent's support .. and to discuss it and prepare her for it. Just as both parents did prior to separation.

I dont think that should all change the second parents split. IMO .. its about the kids well-being. Whats best for them is the best etiquette to adhere to. Just my $0.02.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 09-02-2015 at 11:42 PM.
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  #43  
Old 09-03-2015, 12:31 AM
stripes stripes is offline
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FWIW Kid's father and I have a sort of de facto parallel parenting. I deal with medical and dental stuff, he deals with ophthalmologist (Kid wears glasses). We didn't formally plan this, it just sort of worked out. I keep him apprised of the outcomes of regular checkups and vice versa. We don't both attend appointments, because I have no desire to see him (and I think it's mutual) and I don't think Kid really needs both parents in the same room. (The one minor medical emergency that occurred involved a sprain - ex didn't tell me he'd taken Kid to the ER until I got a call out of the blue saying that "the x-rays don't show any fractures" because my name is on Kid's contact info - but after I expressed myself somewhat strongly about the importance of being notified about any urgent medical situations, I don't think that will happen again).

I did put a clause in our order to the effect that "each parent shall inform the other of information relating to Kid which is not independently available to both parents", so that e.g. when I had a one-to-one conversation about Kid's classroom placement with the principal I told ex about it, just to let him know what the principal said to me about Kid, but I don't bother to remind him about meet-the-teacher night and things like that because that info is accessible to him through other means, like the class website.

I think that in unfriendly divorces, communication between the exes should be minimized for the sanity of all involved. Requirements for consent for various activities, unless that consent is really really necessary, just add to the burden of communication (both the seeking and granting of consent, and the hassles that follow when one party decides not to follow the unenforceable requirement and the other party gets ticked off ...). Every case is different, of course, but in general, the less Q&A that goes back and forth between the parents, the better.
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  #44  
Old 09-03-2015, 08:17 AM
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I think the parallel model would be very effective.
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  #45  
Old 09-03-2015, 09:31 AM
YoungDad23 YoungDad23 is offline
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My situation is similar to LF32's in that I am seeking joint (alternatively sole) and ex is seeking sole and want to make all decisions.

At our TMC last month, both my ex's LAO lawyer and our case management judge brought up Parallel Parenting with each of us having separate "domains" of care where we would have final say.

This would work for me, (e.g. She has medical, I have education).

I like Stripes scenario too where even different areas of medical/dental are shared on a day to day basis, especially since ex doesn't have transportation to get to specialists appts out of town, but she can easily manage S2's visit to a GP and dentist.

As for the interprovincial travel issue, the clause that neither of us can travel with S2 outside Ontario without written consent or court order is currently in place and will be in our final order. We both want it there.

That said, we live hundreds of miles from a provincial border but not that far from the US border. Travel outside the country will definitely require written consent from the other parent for the foreseeable future.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2015, 03:38 PM
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To my surprise the SC judge, on her own, decided that ex should have to notify me when she is leaving for QC and provide me with her itinerary. This was not requested by me nor in my materials at all. I was totally blown away after being told on this thread by a few posters that it was aggressive and controlling.

Now I suppose its time to get that convo going with my ex as well.
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2015, 04:00 PM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
To my surprise the SC judge, on her own, decided that ex should have to notify me when she is leaving for QC and provide me with her itinerary. This was not requested by me nor in my materials at all. I was totally blown away after being told on this thread by a few posters that it was aggressive and controlling.

Now I suppose its time to get that convo going with my ex as well.
That is surprising and good news in that the judge likely sees the ex as playing games vs the actual need to advise of simple travel.

Expect a message of "I am going to my parents on Xday, and coming home on Yday. If you need to contact me or D, call my cell" to be sufficient notice and information. I doubt the judge meant that the ex was required to provide you with a detailed itinerary of people who will be there, which room D will sleep in, the ex's parents phone number etc. She likely is just required to provide 1 contact number and dates she departs and comes back. To be honest, that is what most reasonably minded people would do anyway.....
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2015, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
That is surprising and good news in that the judge likely sees the ex as playing games vs the actual need to advise of simple travel.

Expect a message of "I am going to my parents on Xday, and coming home on Yday. If you need to contact me or D, call my cell" to be sufficient notice and information. I doubt the judge meant that the ex was required to provide you with a detailed itinerary of people who will be there, which room D will sleep in, the ex's parents phone number etc. She likely is just required to provide 1 contact number and dates she departs and comes back. To be honest, that is what most reasonably minded people would do anyway.....
Agreed .. I would never ask for anything with that much detail. As long as I'm cognizant when D4 is leaving the province, where she'll be and a contact method Im fine. I certainly won't have an issue with providing the same info to her if D4 leaves the province on my watch ...which doesn't happen often at all.
I agree HD, the judge saw a game-player and her endorsements reflected as such.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2015, 11:13 PM
Beachnana Beachnana is offline
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Day to day move ents are going to be hard to control or enforce. Lots of SA have unenforceable clauses in them.

My daughters has a couple in them and her agreement is only 2 pages long.

Interesting one clause, which ex wrote himself, states that child will reside with Mother. Does not state where Mother will reside. So that is a clause you should definetly avoid. You need to specifiy km distance. Mif you just say Ontario or Ottawa area your ex could move to the PQ border.

How many appointments does your d4 have? My grandson is 4 and he has been to the doctor for a checkup each year. In the past 12 months He has had a ear infection 2 times and ended up in ER in the middle in the middle of the night both times, plus he recently had a bout of croup and required a quick visit to ER. Not a lot of medical issues are common for most children. Dad was text as she went off to the ER. As it was late at night there was no response and no questions afterwards. These visits are quite common with most kids. I think if the child has a major medical issue the. Both parents need to be involved but honestly these everyday mishaps and common illness are just that common and run ofmthe mill. If I was to choose my battles it would be over school and a defined location radius.

Pick your battles.
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  #50  
Old 11-04-2015, 11:18 AM
dad2bandm dad2bandm is offline
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Clauses similar to what are in our order:

"...in the event one parent travels with the child outside (local city/greater municipality) that parent shall provide to the other particulars of such travel."

( a wider "travel" one, ex. going across the country, international, etc.)
"...In the event one parent travels with the child outside of Ontario the vacationing parent shall provide to the other an itinerary and details as to how to contact the child during the trip and the non-vacationing parent shall provide a statutory declaration/permission letter consenting to such travel, such consent not to be unreasonably witheld."


"Both parents shall have the right to make inquiries and to be given information as to the health, education, and welfare of the child from the child's teachers, school officials, doctors, dentists, health care providers, coaches, trainers, camp counsellors and others involved with the child. Any information received by either parent from the child's school or from any third party involved with the child, shall be provided to the other parent."

How enforcable are they? It depends. The "travel" one, has really only applied to me, as I'm the only one who follows this. Mom doesn't travel, and when she has, she has "snuck away" (within the province), without following the order anyway. But if an issue did come up, it's good to have something in the order, to "fall back onto" I think.

I've used the "medical info" clause, a few times before, because Mom has often instructed dentist and doctor (hers), to not share info with me. I ran into a lot of interferrence from Mom, about this, so I literally had to present the court order to them, and show them the order states I should be getting that info as well. It's helped - somewhat. If I didn't have that specified in order, I would be screwed. Child's school also has a copy of our order, that I provided them - this helped immensely, when child started school, as it's literally spelled out for them, that I have rights to child's info. (Mom instructed them too, that I was not allowed to have info).

So, don't think of it as just something to only hold your "ex" accountable to, but something, to aid you, in dealing with third-parties, who usually have no knowledge or info, of the parenting situation, and if they do, it's often get a one-sided story, from the trouble-making parent.
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