mobility and so much more

[offtocourtwego]

First...thank you for all of the extremely helpful advice within these forums. My girlfriend and I are eternally grateful. Good luck to all!

Our situation...

Then:

• GF moved in with me in July, her ex contested based on residence clause in SA...cannot move outside Greater Toronto without consent, proper notice was given...note GF is in real estate and mistakenly thought GTA boundary included new location as it is included as part of GTA for the Toronto Real Estate Board listings...Greater Toronto actually extends north only to Steeles Ave
• Our home is in Bradford, 68 kms from her ex's (beaches, TO)
• GF and her ex have two children, seven and nine, with shared custody (50 / 50), GF is primary caregiver
• GF - mon, tues, every second weekend...ex - wed, thurs, every second weekend
• GF submitted a parenting plan which kept kids enrolled in TO school and no change to either custody or access for ex, all travel provided by GF
• kids are one billion percent wanting to live in Bradford despite travel

Interim:

• kids and GF live in Bradford every second weekend and are forced by consent order to spend school nights in TO
• also by consent all Bradford activities suspended, dance, karate
• ex is extremely manipulative and controlling
• mediation provided an agreement which ex reneged on next day...refused to sign
• note, mediator immediately recognized an imbalance of power and held separated closed door sessions
• case conference was a non event as ex would not negotiate in spite of encouraged resolution by court
• ex has a long history of email and verbal harassment, including a recent barrage as the trial nears including comments like...jump from bed to bed to pay bills, thank god for his wife providing a positive female role model for kids (note, GF university educated, responsible parent, active community member, good person)

Now:

• trial is scheduled for feb. 3
• ex has changed lawyers and is seeking adjournment
• ex has suggested seeking sole custody
• ex has provided an offer to settle that includes negating CS, full indemnity, and sole custody with liberal and generous access, no Bradford
• GF has submitted two reasonable offers to settle

If all of this wasn't so serious in nature for GF and her kids, it would almost be laughable. We understand that the mobility issue has some merit, however we strongly believe that this is in the best interests of these children...and we have witnessed in mediation and conference that a court may share the same opinion. Case law support provided within these forums is invaluable...Ligate v Richardson in particular (the appeal).

Sorry, the questions...I hope the facts provided give a decent snapshot.

1. Chance of adjournment (two weeks before trial) based on change of representation?
2. Chance of arguing sole custody at feb. 1 trial? Ex's affidavit reads like a custody argument...GF's reads like a mobility argument...we chose to not 'muddy the waters' with a custody written affidavit...only issue before the court at present is mobility...trial is affidavit evidence only
3. Advice wanted re a harassing, dismissive co-parent and a possible criminal element...its just not right?
4. In the event that ex does file for sole custody (likely), how do we respond??? In spite of all this BS, GF recognizes the importance of the kids father in their lives. Only loser here is the kids, sole custody for either isn't in the best interest of these kids, they love both their mom and dad...although dad is a little less popular lately!
5. Most importantly...and this is the one that keeps us up at nights...at what point do you throw in the towel and recognize that two perfectly wonderful children don't deserve this? At what point does an imperfect status quo override 'ugly'?

Kindly know that I am a divorced father, of three daughters, who enjoys a great relationship with his ex and a book worthy co-parenting arrangement. We, all of us, owe our children the best after divorce life possible.

Thank you in advance for any helpful comments.

[standing on the sidelines]

well I can understand the fathers view. If there was a mobility clause then your GF has to live up to it. Is there anyway that you could move to within the boundary of the GTA??

it looks like your GF is being resonable with the willing to provide all the travel etc. I wonder if he is thinking that if he agrees she may change her mind down the road in regards to providing all the travel. That would worry me if I was in his postion. How does it work during the week for school, does she drop them off the night before or does she wake them up earlier and take them? How long of a drive would it be??

Why is Dad a little less popular now?? He just wants his ex to live up to her agreement and if she doesn't then how does he know she will live up to future agreements she makes?

I can see your points and they are valid, but on the other hand so are his.

[dadtotheend]

Mobility has "some" merit???? She "mistakenly thought" that Bradford was in the GTA? How about distorted the location of Bradford? How about your GF was foolish and selfish (maybe even controlling) to think she could pull this off without being contested by the Father. I think it's absolutely ridiciulous!!!!

It's NOT in the kids best interest to be shuttled from Bradford to the Beaches for school. Except in you and your ex's minds, it's also not in the kids best interest to be moved so far away from their routines and their FATHER.

I live in the Beaches, and I have been to Bradford many times. Slice it any you want, that is a one way two hour drive in rush hour for sure, if the traffic isn't that bad. How could your GF possilby defend a position that Bradford is in the GTA? It is way north and west of Toronto and the kids go to school at the south east end of Toronto

How can you say in virtually the same sentence that ex hopped from bed to bed to pay bills and then say he is married?

The children are too young to have their preferences heard, so whether or not they "1 billion percent" want to move to Bradford is irrelevant.

You give a concise bulleted history of the situation. You even spray in a few editorial comments to buttress your argument. Who cares whether Dad was a dick to your GF? If he parents the kids well, it doesn't matter. Indeed if it demostrates that the two of them can't get along, it could hurt her and she could lose custody.

The move away from her children's schools is so compelling as to be the central issue here. Your GF screwed up bad. If she doesn't come up with a plan that somehow keeps the kids in a shared parenting arrangement (i.e. no Bradford school nights), she will certainly find herself paying CS because primary residence will be with Dad, and she could even lose custody.

I can't f'n believe what a dumb move that was.

[billiechic]

Dadtotheend is right (if a little hot-headed). NO University educated person who works in Toronto Real Estate could possibly believe Bradford was in the GTA. Bradford is a 20 minute drive NORTH of where I believe the GTA ends (at hwy 9). The GTA does not end at Steeles, the City of Toronto ends at Steeles.

What I don't get though is how it is in the children's best interests to make this kind of commute all the way to the beaches. That IS a 2 hour drive. The weekends in Bolton shouldn't be a problem, but she should never have chosen to move that far without speaking to the children's father.

Put yourself in his shoes. Ex wife moves far away. Ex is primary caregiver. He is SCARED that she is trying to establish a new status quo. He knows this kind of commute is a bad idea, and if it comes down to it a judge would likely rule for sole custody for one parent rather than make the kids suffer the commute. Since she is the PC, it would probably be her. See my point? The move opens up a risk for him to lose the 50/50 he currently has.

If you don't try to fix this and it goes to court, prepare to be chewed out by the judge and begin the battle for custody. Just because moving to Bradford gave the kids a more stable family atmosphere does not mean it was the best decision. 2nd families always have to remember that they are linked to the original family. Whatever you do to benefit your family should do not harm or even benefit the ex and his family. This move was a bad idea.

[dadtotheend]

Your damn right I'm hot headed about it. It's a mistake of huge proportion. Moreover to spin it as in the best interest of a grade 2 and grade 4 child is selfishly confusing Mom's own interests with those of the children. Give me a break.

And as for primary caregiver? They share the kids equally. There is no primary residence. But there's going to be one ordered by the court in Toronto if this doesn't get resolved b/w the two of them. I can't see how she can get around this without moving back. She has just handed primary residence at least, and maybe sole custody to Dad.

FYI, my ex moved from the Beaches to Sutton, on the other side of Lake Simcoe. She tried to have the children moved with her and the judge called it "bizarre". That was her first huge mistake on the way to losing custody. In my research at the time I also came across another Dad whose ex moved from the Beaches to Oakville. Same result, he obtained primary residence in court.

You don't move away from your kids routines, period.

[billiechic]

I know you have reason to be "hot-headed", I too think it is a selfish move and damaging to the kids, regardless of whether they want it or not. My ex tried to pull the same thing and I put the breaks on him. 50/50 custody is not possible with that kind of distance.

This father was robbed of the chance to stop it, and now he is only trying to correct the mistake. If the mother had been considerate of the kids and their father in the beginning then he wouldn't have had to get nasty.

Glad you got the chance to undo your ex's selfish decision. What is it about moving away from the Beaches? That is 3 cases now...

[dadtotheend]

You don't live in the Beaches do you???

FYI, my ex was more or less forced to move home to her family. She was in a bad way, and needed their support. She was b/w a rock and a hard place. Trying to move the kids up there was selfish, but she was damned if she did move (away from the kids) and damned if she didn't (she would have gotten worse).

[billiechic]

You don't live in the Beaches do you???

not me. the OP, you and the case you referenced were all moving from the Beaches.

If your ex was ill, then I can see her having a hard decision to make.

But the OP has not stated there was any reason to move that far, only to move in with new beau. If your case (Dadtotheend) had a viable reason for her to move and it contributed to you getting sole custody then I would recommend that this mother make every attempt to reconcile this issue with the father. it does not look good for her...

[dadtotheend]

Yep, agreed.

It can be salvaged but she is going to have to work with Dad in the matter. I hope they can do it for the sake of those kids.

[offtocourtwego]

Thank you for replies.

Dad to the end...go away, your misguided anger has no place here. We get quite enough of that from her ex thank you.

Sole custody may be in our future, GF and her ex might as well be living on separate planets for all the effective communication and coparenting that happens...and I can assure all that it all originates from the angry ex. Further, yes the kids are affected by that. Both have major behavioral problems...

Anyways, enough of that. Its going to court. I asked several questions that I was hoping would be answered.

Regards questions of us...

GF works in beaches and plans to drive kids to school in morning...interestingly, she has changed her entire work schedule which allows more time with kids, no more daycare.

We believe people leave the beaches because it is very expensive for single parents.

You would be surprised how little most university graduates know.

[dadtotheend]

Keep telling yourself that dude. Apparently the strength of status quo and keeping children's routines is lost you and your GF.

You aren't the first person here to tell people to "go away" because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear. That "head in the sand" mentality will make the eventual outcome even harder to swallow while you delude yourselves.

You're GF breached a court order by moving out of the agreed upon living area. That was remedied on an interim basis by putting the kids with Dad on school nights. Why do you think that happened? You're in for a rude awakening. You can spin it in your mind six ways to Sunday. It's in no children's best interest to drive 2 hours to school in the morning.

I'll go away NP. So will the kids when a judge rules for Dad. And if you noticed, I'm not the only who thinks your GF was selfish. She wanted to move in with you for her own interest, and she moved away from her kids to do it. Now you have a status quo emerging that puts the kids in Toronto on school nights. That status quo will entrench itself while the court system moves glacially along. You're pooched unless Mom comes to her senses and works with Dad, something a reasonable joint custodial parent would have done from the get-go.

Good luck to you.

[billiechic]

Dadtotheend and I have butted heads on occasion, he can be very blunt and sometimes his straighforward posts will knock you on your butt. He is usually right though, and if you step back and look at what he is saying you will see that he has a valid point.

If you don't do something to remedy this before you get to court you are not likely to be happy with the outcome. If the kids are required to stay in TO on school nights you are screwed, that IS the status quo. It doesn't matter who was the primary caregiver before the separation, take it from me. I let my ex have 50/50 for 4 months and had valid reasons for seeking sole legal custody and I could not have it. Status quo was set and I needed a mountain of evidence to change it. So will you.

So unless you do somethign to try and fix this cooperatively, you have handed him the advantage. You might want to look into moving to the GTA.

[offtocourtwego]

dtoe

I have no issue with your thoughts or arguments, your method of presentation has no place. And I've been reading these forums almost daily for the past several months...and you know your tone had no place, these forums are designed to help whomever the OP is with advice, and perhaps criticism, provided in a respectful and constructive manner (you failed on both counts). And guess what...my GF read your comments and cried...many thanks indeed.

Bradford to Toronto has never taken two hours...even on the worst day. Some kids travel the same amount of time on buses everyday. Rep sports takes kids all over Ontario everyday.

Status Quo has also included the fact that the kids travel to and from on school nights and every second weekend. The kids do not spend the TO time at the ex's (as I think you have misunderstood). We are now established and the kids are fine, thank you...if they weren't, this would be over. Kids come first...end of story.

Now, about civilised co-parenting. Impossible with this man. Everything that isn't initiated by him or thought of by him is open for insult and argument. Lawyers letters are the norm. How those two were given co-parenting status in the first place is beyond me. Example: Ex has kids enrolled in Cubs and Brownies. We say excellent. GF has kids enrolled in karate and dance. Each party bears their own expense. This took a mediated settlement as ex felt that GF should be paying half expense of Cubs and Brownies and that she could not unilaterally enrol kids in other activities. WTF!!!

Loss of primary residence is a concern and a reality.

We get that some won't agree. We get that a judge may not agree, we also know that a court may. Our families and friends agree with what we are doing. My GF has done everything so that her ex's access does not change by one minute.

Again, I am a divorced father of three girls who enjoys (and works at) having a great relationship with my ex. I know what effective coparenting looks like, I know what it takes...and her ex ain't a suitable candidate. Shame for everyone...especially her kids.

Anyways, still hoping the original questions of adjournment, introduction of sole custody and harrassment will be addressed. All real, all iminent.

[dadtotheend]

I'm sorry your GF cried about how I told her. Yes, I was very direct. How do you think you came across vis a vis the manner in which you trashed the Father? You failed on that count. We've all been through the emotional ringer, myself included. Better to hear it now while she can still do some damage control than if she decides to let a judge tell her the same result. Sure the judge will sugar coat and won't be as direct as I am. But that was a fatal mistake and she needs to fix it.

Some kids might travel two hours on buses every day, but we're not talking about what's tolerable for them, we're talking what's best.

Bradford to the Beaches in normal traffic is 58 minutes:

Driving Directions from Bradford, Ontario to Williamson Road Toronto, Ontario

(I don't know where they go to school, I just picked Williamson Road because it's in the centre of the Beaches.)

The kids will be sitting on the 400 and the 401 or the 404/DVP in rush hour traffic whatever route you take and it will be way longer than 58 minutes. The kids would be unfocused and unduly tired at school vs. being very close to school at Dad's house. That will be the issue.

I gave you two examples where a parent moved away from their kids and lost primary residence. They are strikingly similar to your situation and you have heard someone else agree.

You said in your first post, "kids and GF live in Bradford every second weekend and are forced by consent order to spend school nights in TO". To me, that sounds like they stay with Dad on school nights. What is the schedule then during the week? Either way, if the court has ordered that they stay in Toronto on school nights, well Bradford isn't Toronto. Go ahead and continue to take your chances with a judge. You will be arguing an uphill battle against a status quo that is already in place. I'm not going to argue with you about it anymore.

You want specific answers to the questions you raised in your first post?

1.I dont know about adjourning a trial, but I don't think it's as easy to do as a motion or conference.

2.If the two of them can't get along, and there appears to be ample evidence of that from what you post, then sole custody could very well be awarded. You better start asking for it now if you haven't already. But I fear you will have a VERY tough time upsetting the status quo. Your arguments about Dad's character are going to very difficult to make unless you have very signicant third party evidence. Even then, they don't speak to Dad's ability to parent. Judges want to hear parenting plans, not how much ex's dislike or mistreat each other. You should seriously consider not going there. Character assassination is not looked at fondly in the courts. Parenting ability is what it's all about.

3.See #2.

4.She asks for sole custody yourself. Better still she damage controls and works it out with him.

5.You never throw in the towel. Honestly, she needs to think about moving back, and doing it before the trial. Judges don't want to hear what you plan to do at trial. They will just say "move back and then talk to me". By then a final order might be place and she will REALLY be in tough to change it.

One other option she might try is to present a plan that has the kids with her the first three weekends of the month (the kids still need fun weekend time with Dad, hence he gets the fourth weekend, and fifth in months when there are five weeekends) and she drives them to school on Monday mornings, and they stay with Dad Monday night thru Thursday night. But that still has them driving to school from a long way away. And that is still not as good as moving back to TO.

I really am sorry about your GF. My very direct responses have been as a result of:

i)your willingness (rightly or wrongly) to trash talk the Father. You just don't do that. Try it with the judge and you may not like the response you get.

ii)my astonishment that someone would not take the time to research what a huge negative impact a move like that could have.

You just don't move away from your kids routines. It's cardinal sin #1 in family law. It's too bad you didn't start reading this forum BEFORE she moved in with you.

[offtocourtwego]

update

Just an update...

Well, my GF won! The right thing happened and her ex was severely dealt with by the court.

That's all!

Good luck to all.

One piece of advice to all going through this. Be nice, take the high road every chance you get and protect the innocence of your kids.