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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 05-08-2022, 09:06 PM
Bogdan Bogdan is offline
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Agree with Brampton33 that you should be fighting for 50/50 ... but Ontario/Canada is not a 50/50 state EOD like some states in US are. It is not a 50/50 split (extenuating circumstances aside).

I'm speaking specifically for the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) ... there very much still is a bias amongst judges. Hit the wrong judge on the wrong day (as a male) .. and you will not get 50/50 regardless of facts. I've had this explained to me by numerous lawyers here.

You can see it on this forum too, with dads having to agree to some ridiculous progressive schedules. It's never the other way around.

A dad asking for 5/14 would be ridiculed at ... a mom asking 5/14 is not unusual.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2022, 08:47 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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Don't agree to anything less than 50/50, its hard to get out of something you agreed to. And I'll repeat, having 5/14 is financially crippling because you are literally doing double-duty. You are paying full CS AND you are expected to have all the groceries, bedrooms, clothing, entertainment, etc as though you had your kids 50%.

Agreed with Bogdan that the standard is to graduate to 50/50 through transitional steps. That is what transpired in my case. It was obvious that my ex was solely focused on retaining 5/14 simply for the Table CS.

Do it in 3-4 steps. Where you have 5/14 for 3 months, then 6/14, then 7/14. If your ex is ok with 5/14, surely 1 additional overnight over a 2 week period is not the end of the world, is it? Call her bluff. Judges are used to seeing 1 parent screaming it needs to be 5/14 whereby 6/14 would be a travesty.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2022, 12:25 PM
Bogdan Bogdan is offline
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Additionally ... 5/14 also means you're essentially being an unpaid babysitter for a child that the court has deemed to be essentially someone else's.

Push for either 50/50 now (very unlikely in your case based on established status quo and tender years doctrine) .. or a progressive schedule over 2 years max to get you there.

Some legal food for thought on not getting 50/50 :

"My happiest male clients are the ones who accepted that they weren't parents anymore and moved at least 500 miles away. They accepted that everything they'd worked for was gone and that, going forward, they were going to have to live on 40 percent of their former income. They didn't have to see or interact with the plaintiff who took everything from them. If they wanted to be dads they started over with a second wife or partner."
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2022, 01:54 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
"My happiest male clients are the ones who accepted that they weren't parents anymore and moved at least 500 miles away. They accepted that everything they'd worked for was gone and that, going forward, they were going to have to live on 40 percent of their former income. They didn't have to see or interact with the plaintiff who took everything from them. If they wanted to be dads they started over with a second wife or partner."
Stop reading this nonsense.

http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

That is crap advice. It is also from the USA. Its just on-line "sad dad" BS.
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2022, 02:12 PM
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CoolGuy41 CoolGuy41 is offline
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Whereas the advice in this thread is mostly generally correct, but the gloomy tone is not. Many posters here are pointing out how shitty your situation is as if you were not already aware. While your patience will certainly be tested, I think there is hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
Push for either 50/50 now (very unlikely in your case based on established status quo and tender years doctrine) .. or a progressive schedule over 2 years max to get you there.
1) Yes, you should push for 50/50. If you do, it is likely you will get it. Make a settlement offer with a ridiculously long graduation to 50/50; e.g., a progressive sched over 2 years. When she rejects it and you go to court, ask for less a shorter graduation period than you have offered; e.g. 1 year.

2) The Supreme Court of Canada has struck down the "tender years doctrine", so don't worry about that.

3) As for the status quo, if you currently have close to 40% parenting time, you are actually in a much better position to convince a judge to give you 50% than if you had very little time & involvement with your children. The only thing that can trip you up is any sort of written agreement by you to the status quo, but I think even that can be overcome (depending on what it is).
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2022, 05:58 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolGuy41 View Post
3) As for the status quo, if you currently have close to 40% parenting time, you are actually in a much better position to convince a judge to give you 50% than if you had very little time & involvement with your children. The only thing that can trip you up is any sort of written agreement by you to the status quo, but I think even that can be overcome (depending on what it is).
totally agree.

Go for 50/50. Unless there is really something wildly unique about your situation- I don't see why you shouldn't get 50/50.

Offer a VERY FAST graduated parenting schedule. Move to 50/50 within a year.
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2022, 09:17 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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If your current lawyer is not confident they can get you 50/50 with kids, consider looking for a lawyer who is.

Like we said, 50/50 is quite common. Unless you live 200km away or there is a legitimate threat to their wellbeing. What is extremely common is to obtain 50/50 through graduated steps. Offer 50/50 by Age 3. Your kid is 1.5 now and by the time you negotiate and get agreement in place, your kid will be 2. As Iona said, do a few increments over a 1 year period. At age 3, your kid is a toddler running around and your other kid will be 6. Perfectly manageable and your kids should not be denied because your ex is being selfish.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2022, 03:39 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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Agree with most here especially the ones questioning why your lawyer let you be for less than 50/50 and why they are mediating.

50/50 is the norm now, maybe people have been feeding you the wrong ideas. Lawyers telling you otherwise may be playing you or as another poster put it "sad-dad" stuff.

1. "Best interests" of the child is a bit of a misnomer. Still argue that where you can though.

2. If they have more money than you and the lawyer is aggressive the point of mediation has less to do with reaching a settlement and more to do with exhausting your resources and trying to figure out how to play it out in court. Mediation is not binding and it sounds like you have been through it enough, time for court.

3. Unless there are extraordinary circumstances do not agree to a Section 30 or an assessment. You can read how much of a scam section 30s are and they will use it to increase your expenses.

4. I don't know what led your lawyer to go down the mediation route especially if they know the other lawyer is high conflict. If you ex wanted to mediate you guys could have done it yourself to a large degree when it came to the kids at least.

5. Keep all your communications to an absolute minimum. 2 or 3 times a week.

6. Some people don't want kids, really. The kids want them though so really up to you but don't sign away 50/50 and do quickly move to equalization. Mom can provide breast milk for the 1.5 year old that will soon be off of it.

A divorce lawyer in a one lawyer town makes a lot of money. 2 in the same town make even more. It sounds like you might have those 2 lawyers working here. Save your money for trial. If you and your ex want to talk and work it out then perfect, bring that result to the lawyers.

Last edited by pinkHouses; 05-10-2022 at 03:44 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2022, 09:05 AM
Bogdan Bogdan is offline
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Clearing up some things from my experience:

This is for the GTA and extenuating circumstances aside (equally involved parents, with no drugs, abuse, etc).

Mother will get atleast 50/50, the dad will likely get 50/50 (but it’s not guaranteed).

Officially there’s no more “tender years doctrine” .. unofficially the younger the child (specifically at the super young diaper / breast feeding age) there’s a preference for the mother.

This is why fathers (such as myself and Brampton33 and LovingDad on this forum) end up taking the “graduated parenting” schedule route. It’s risk mitigation since things aren’t guaranteed 50/50 for the dad. It’s never the other way around.

Rest assured though even with a graduated parenting schedule ... a very high conflict ex will still make it her mission to come up with BS excuses to prevent the progression and drag you back into litigation.

Regarding Tayken’s last post .. the site mentioned is an excellent resource, including for Canada. The best resource that I found on the matter that cuts all the standard cliche BS that most other resources have.

Was the quote I referenced sad ? Sure … but it’s really meant for “high conflict” individuals … think trying to co-parent with an Amber Heard persona for 18 years, it can be torture especially if you’re stuck at 38%, pay full offset and have no say in your kids upbringing.

I empathize with dads that are stuck in these positions .. and now get the alternative.

Last edited by Bogdan; 05-19-2022 at 09:08 AM. Reason: typo
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2022, 10:38 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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Agree with everything Bogdan said. For me, a graduated plan was not about risk mitigation. There was never any risk. The judges associated with my case, my lawyer, and OCL all indicated that the parenting plan should be 50/50. My ex was adamant that it be 5/14. Everyone saw right through her that she was motivated by having Table CS for 18 years.

A graduated plan was only presented, and agreed to, as a means to appease her and end the litigation. I paid an extra year of Table CS, but would have likely spent 5x more in a trial, and a trial would have been 2+ years down the road so I would have been no further ahead in terms of when 50/50 is achieved.

And yes, a high conflict ex will look for any excuse to haul you back to court to either halt the progression of 50/50, or somehow suggest 50/50 is not working when its being implemented. Best advice is to always be on your best behaviour, and document everything. Be ready for the inevitable return to court. A high conflict ex cannot accept anything less than getting their way. Sometimes to their own detriment as court's really don't have patience for that.

Get 50/50 and limit interaction with your ex as they will continuously try to bait you.
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