Lawd....Here we go again...

[rockscan]

My mom was very emotionally abusive due to her mental illness. It impacted all of my decisions until I was 25. My doc was the one who pointed out how it impacted MY emotional health and I put my foot down. I felt very guilty for a long time but after I did it my life changed. I also set boundaries with other members of my family and I was finally able to really heal and some of my own emotional issues went away.

Yes she will feel guilty and yes her father will be upset but she is not responsible for his emotional well being. She also does not deserve to be treated badly for being an adult and making her own choices. He does not get to dictate. She is making an effort (a super effort if you ask me) to have a relationship and he is squandering it). His actions are emotional abuse and its not healthy.

I would also recommend she speak to someone to help her understand its not her fault.

[LovingFather32]

Once her dad sees that he risks losing her his attitude may change.

Sounds like you guys have done well at 50/50 throughout her life and she's grown to be a successful, smart woman, so it seems he hasn't affected her too bad.

If he was crazy abusive you don't seem like the type that would stand by and watch either. It's obvious that you saw some value in having him equally in her life all this time and perhaps observed the benefits. Your daughter sounds like an emotionally-stable, intelligent young lady....congrats.

I think when a child moves away at 17 that it's hard for all parents, especially if they're leaving the country. (I'm not looking forward to when my little angel moves away and spreads her wings). This is serving as a catalyst for certain feelings, words and behaviors.

I also think there's a little bit of competition and hard feelings going on .. (i.e - She'll want to stay with me in our beautiful house by the water...not dad in hi tiny apartment).

If she were younger I might have a different stance on this but right now the 2 contributing factors are: 1. Dad's behaviors/words/mentality is unacceptable ; 2. She's 17 so she's already sifted through many of Eriksson's stages of psychosocial development, has built solid attachments, etc .. she doesn't really need to deal with it.

Having said that I think that since dad was in her life 50/50 in a shared parenting regime that he'll miss his daughter and come around. He needs to stop spilling feces out of his pen in affidavits and use that time to improve his relationship with his daughter. Perhaps some counseling. Perhaps a cold lesson of your daughter giving him an ultimatum (i.e - talk nicely or you don't see me) regarding his behaviors.

As for your stance and words PH .. I think you're justified. You're ready to be done with court and all of this nonsense...and he remains a high conflict court addict who needs to think before he speaks. He just sounds douchey to me. You sound funny as hell. If I saw you at a gathering and we sat around having wine I have a feeling you'd be cracking me up all night.

[rockscan]

My partner and his teenager daughters were struggling several years ago as a result of ex's influence. All they did was fight. What about? Things not related to their relationship. The three of them were toxic to each other and it was just creating an unhealthy relationship that all three of them wanted to end. I encouraged him to speak to a therapist on communication and boundaries. She specialized in teens, emotional attacks and divorce. He was told to set boundaries on what was and wasnt ok. It worked for a while until his ex started in with her "if your father doesnt want to hear your opinions then he doesnt care about you". This defeated the whole purpose. This was the wrong way to "empower" the kids.

Im not saying she has to cut her father off. Im saying she has to set limits on what she will accept. Your oldest has obviously done that and had to take drastic actions. Your ex is cruel. His actions have proven he is only thinking about himself. Parental sadness about a child growing up and spreading their wings is understandable but none of what he has done shows that. Im sure if you weren't moving to the school area you would have been equally as sad but I dont think you would make her feel bad for that decision. Healthy and unhealthy are easy to see here.

[Pursuinghappiness]

[QUOTE]

Once her dad sees that he risks losing her his attitude may change.

Sounds like you guys have done well at 50/50 throughout her life and she's grown to be a successful, smart woman, so it seems he hasn't affected her too bad.

If he was crazy abusive you don't seem like the type that would stand by and watch either. It's obvious that you saw some value in having him equally in her life all this time and perhaps observed the benefits. Your daughter sounds like an emotionally-stable, intelligent young lady....congrats.

Thank you. My ex is very up and down. There have been month long stretches where things have been absolutely fine. In fact, once he surprised her by buying her an acoustic guitar and she talked about it for a week.

But when things are bad...and lately that's more often than not...she complains of him being mean, demeaning and loud. And just flat out rude to her. And this latest thing with university really has put him over the edge. It started last year and has seemed to be getting progressively worse. This court action isn't helping either because of the affidavits being sent back and forth.

It almost seems like he has peaks and valleys based on what's going with his life. If I could rent a pretty girlfriend for him so he got regular nookey...believe me, I'd do it at this point. It would be cheaper than my lawyer per hour.

I think when a child moves away at 17 that it's hard for all parents, especially if they're leaving the country. (I'm not looking forward to when my little angel moves away and spreads her wings). This is serving as a catalyst for certain feelings, words and behaviors.

Listen, if my ex was acting normal and I could call him and speak to him like a sane human being, we could work out with our daughter a schedule or let him know that we're making sure that our daughter has transportation to see him. But that isn't possible and I'm leaving the sorting of the schedule with her dad up to her. And besides, I won't be seeing her as much either. She's going to be a full-time student and is planning to get a part-time job.

I also think there's a little bit of competition and hard feelings going on .. (i.e - She'll want to stay with me in our beautiful house by the water...not dad in hi tiny apartment).

lol...My ex husband isn't at all financially destitute and his current home is at least double the size of mine. I live in a very modest townhouse right now, that's why we're looking to build a bigger investment property. I guarantee you that when he moves, he won't live in "a tiny apartment." In fact, the size of my home was brought up in early court documents over custody when he claimed the size of my home was "abusive" to my daughter since she was used to a big home like we had during marriage.

Besides, the ex has no idea about what our plans are. My daughter would never tell him that and I have zero communication with him.

If she were younger I might have a different stance on this but right now the 2 contributing factors are: 1. Dad's behaviors/words/mentality is unacceptable ; 2. She's 17 so she's already sifted through many of Eriksson's stages of psychosocial development, has built solid attachments, etc .. she doesn't really need to deal with it.

Having said that I think that since dad was in her life 50/50 in a shared parenting regime that he'll miss his daughter and come around. He needs to stop spilling feces out of his pen in affidavits and use that time to improve his relationship with his daughter. Perhaps some counseling. Perhaps a cold lesson of your daughter giving him an ultimatum (i.e - talk nicely or you don't see me) regarding his behaviors.

I know that our daughter would suffer if her dad ends up damaging their relationship to the point where she didn't see him regularly or at all. Her dad has a really big family (ie. My Big Fat Greek Wedding) and they're really nice people and she partially identifies with his culture and its important to her to have contact with him and his extended family.

But I do not have any control over what he does. And I've told her repeatedly that she can only control herself. Wishing for him to be different is unrealistic, she needs to control her reactions to his outbursts and decide what's ok and not ok. He is what he is. Trust me, I divorced him for a reason after 20 years of marriage. And he's gotten much, much, much worse since the divorce.

As for your stance and words PH .. I think you're justified. You're ready to be done with court and all of this nonsense...and he remains a high conflict court addict who needs to think before he speaks. He just sounds douchey to me. You sound funny as hell. If I saw you at a gathering and we sat around having wine I have a feeling you'd be cracking me up all night.

Thank you very much. I'm just amazed that divorce just never seems to end. I honestly thought I'd be done after the SA was signed and every single year, I end up with some new action. I'm just weary of legal fees, days off work, annoying affidavits full of crap and having to defend myself against nonsense. This whole process needs to change.

And wine and laughing sounds like a damn fun night!!!

[Pursuinghappiness]

My partner and his teenager daughters were struggling several years ago as a result of ex's influence. All they did was fight. What about? Things not related to their relationship. The three of them were toxic to each other and it was just creating an unhealthy relationship that all three of them wanted to end. I encouraged him to speak to a therapist on communication and boundaries. She specialized in teens, emotional attacks and divorce. He was told to set boundaries on what was and wasnt ok. It worked for a while until his ex started in with her "if your father doesnt want to hear your opinions then he doesnt care about you". This defeated the whole purpose. This was the wrong way to "empower" the kids.

Im not saying she has to cut her father off. Im saying she has to set limits on what she will accept. Your oldest has obviously done that and had to take drastic actions. Your ex is cruel. His actions have proven he is only thinking about himself. Parental sadness about a child growing up and spreading their wings is understandable but none of what he has done shows that. Im sure if you weren't moving to the school area you would have been equally as sad but I dont think you would make her feel bad for that decision. Healthy and unhealthy are easy to see here.

Our oldest daughter is a different personality type. She's very sweet, calm and quiet but she has a switch and when she's done with something, she's done. She's a logical thinker to the point where she tends to override emotion. I respect that because I'm the same but I think sometimes she's a tad extreme because she's young and hasn't reached that mellowed out stage. But in this instance with her dad, he's never even bothered to try to contact her in 5 years...no birthdays, no christmases, nothing... So frankly, he's made the mistake of validating exactly what she thought of him.
They always had issues from the time she turned into a teenager and she doesn't kowtow to anyone. He couldn't handle that. I'm sure he blames their relationship failure on me but I had nothing to do with it. She was living on her own at the time it happened and I found out about it months after it happened. There's a possibility that the ex asked her to get involved in the custody dispute with her sister because the psychiatrist assigned to our case at the time, spend a whole session on her. When we first got separated, my oldest was angry at me for a short time for breaking up the family and making things change. She got over it but it wouldn't surprise me if my ex tried to capitalize on that and she wouldn't go for it.

Thankfully, my husband has admirably stepped the gap and they have a really close relationship. Its a little surreal that we've never even discussed it and my ex never comes up in conversation. She literally has just moved on.

I've suggested therapy to our youngest daughter but she currently has no interest. I spoke to a therapist myself during the custody case to ask if I should be pushing therapy more and he told me to watch for signs that she was struggling....changes in appetite, weight, behavior, grades, friends, etc.

None of that has happened. Our daughter is a happy, funny, laughing kid. She does amazing in school. She regulates herself without any help...goes to bed on time, gets up on time and ready for school, makes her lunch, does homework. She seems fine. And she calls her sister and I know they talk a lot. They're really good friends despite the fact that she's 10 years older.

What you say about my ex is true but I honestly think he's not capable. I think he has something wrong with him. Its like he saw the kids as extensions of himself and that they should serve a purpose to him, rather than the other way around.

Your suggestions about how to deal with him are right on and I will do what I can to encourage her to keep dealing with him in an honest, straightforward fashion where she simply tells him what's going on and doesn't tolerate his freaking out about it. What I haven't liked is when she tries not to tell him the truth or stalls...I don't think that's the way to deal with him. Ultimately whatever relationship she has with him is out of my hands. She has to make that decision...she's old enough and capable enough to do so.

The school she's attending has great free counselling services. I think after we move, it would be beneficial that she takes the time to talk to an impartial 3rd party to help her through this transition.

[rockscan]

I had no relationship with my father for 20 years because of alienation. The last five years I had been old enough to understand that but I couldn't handle his emotional attacks on my decisions. I decided to give him a chance a few years ago and we made an honest go of it but then he pulled a stunt that had a major impact on property I owned. I had to go to court and it was seven months of hell all because of something he wanted me to do. My one sibling reminded me that you never depend on him. Our relationship suffered because I went back to not putting up with his crap. He will tell people Im just projecting, holding onto the past, still angry or any other variation of that. The bottom line is that there are boundaries I have laid on acceptable behaviour. Im not making all the effort and Im not tolerating selfish bs. Ditto for my mother. No guilt, no bs comments about my decisions, no negativity regarding my decisions etc. I end the visit or call or conversation because it crosses the line and breaches what I find respectable. My partner doesn't get it because they are my family blah blah blah. My parents have their issues and they are not mine. Period. Your daughters are doing whats right and they should not make excuses or feel bad. They don't deserve to be treated poorly by someone who is supposed to love them unconditionally.

[mcdreamy]

The school she's attending has great free counselling services. I think after we move, it would be beneficial that she takes the time to talk to an impartial 3rd party to help her through this transition.

Your daughter sounds like an exceptional young lady - and deserves kudos for acceptance post-secondary. Every time you stick around to post, it seems like both of your kids have it together.

Fwiw, our kidlet was having some issues with her dad recently, she felt he just wasn’t hearing her and was bullying her as well. Her choices at university sent him over the edge too (why is that?? loss of control, misunderstandings?). Our kidlet chose not to see him for a few months and I must admit, it drove me crazy more than her. So I sent her for a few counselling sessions, and just kept reiterating you can’t change people - but he loves you with all of his heart, and he’d do anything for you - just try to accept him as he is, and accept he is never going to be anything different. And then I prayed like heck that he would recognize that (as you say) she was no longer an extension of himself - and he couldn’t change her either.

Their relationship is back on track now, it all came back together, but more on her own terms. Some independent counselling really helped our kidlet to consider the perspectives, so might be worth some further consideration once yours is settled. With any luck, your ex won’t burn his second bridge.

[trinton]

I never said anything about my child writing an email to her father as a tactic in court. Outside of wanting a divorce years and years ago, I don't initiate court action.

What Rockscan was suggesting is that my litigation-happy ex who's trying to welch out on the only one of his kids that will talk to him might try any underhanded method to skip the duty to his kid, so the email could be defensive...not offensive.

Just so that you're clear. I agreed to a 50/50 parenting schedule and shared parenting from the beginning...it was my ex who tried to remove MY parenting rights. He just had no basis to do so and ended up getting screwed in court because he had multiple fits in front of judges and on his various lawyers. Your "all women are evil and trying to take kids away from their daddy's" crap is tiresome.

I don't need to do anything to my ex and his relationship with his kid. He's single handedly destroying it all by himself. The only good news for him is that our youngest is a kind soul who will probably always try to have some level of relationship with him...she'll just never actually trust him or want to spend significant time with him unless he changes.

And that seems unlikely.

Again, I never said all women are evil and are trying to take kids away from dads. You heard that but it was never said.

I was just saying (to the person that recommended it) that having her send an email with the intend to use it in court doesn't sound like a good idea.

But I'll tell you for me as a father, if I ever said something that my daughter doesn't like, I would expect her to let me know and talk to me about it in person, face two face. I'm very close to her and she tells me whatever is on her mind without feeling feeling uncomfortable, shy or being nervous about opening up. To unilaterally receive an email all of a sudden after a court proceeding would be a little sketchy. Just saying. All he has to say is so how come you sent me an email instead of coming to me to talk about?

If you're daughter is as smart as you say, I don't think she'll be easily influenced by you, the step dad, biological dad, her peers, or a counselor. My daughter is often told I was never there, I was rude to her mom, I did this and I did that, etc etc. She spends 30 minutes of time with me and realizes I'm nowhere close to this evil man her mom makes me out to be. She loves me and is very happy and in a great mood when she is with me. Always asks to have more time and complains about having to go back so soon.

Your former husband is obviously going through a difficult time and may have said things he shouldn't have. Bad I don't think he's a bad dad or that he should have a lessened relationship with his daughter. From what you have said, he's not a criminal, and has no addictions. He's willing to move to another country to be closer to his daughter, though I do criticize him for not moving at least within 10-20 minutes of her university but rather 4 hours away. I suppose it is still better than being in a different country than his daughter.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Pursuinghappiness]

Your daughter sounds like an exceptional young lady - and deserves kudos for acceptance post-secondary. Every time you stick around to post, it seems like both of your kids have it together.

Thank you very much. I know I'm lucky that my kids have made it through the divorce process pretty much in tact. I can see why a lot of kids might not.

Fwiw, our kidlet was having some issues with her dad recently, she felt he just wasn’t hearing her and was bullying her as well. Her choices at university sent him over the edge too (why is that?? loss of control, misunderstandings?). Our kidlet chose not to see him for a few months and I must admit, it drove me crazy more than her. So I sent her for a few counselling sessions, and just kept reiterating you can’t change people - but he loves you with all of his heart, and he’d do anything for you - just try to accept him as he is, and accept he is never going to be anything different. And then I prayed like heck that he would recognize that (as you say) she was no longer an extension of himself - and he couldn’t change her either.

In my case, my ex is a control freak. He didn't start out like that, he just became that way. I think our youngest daughter is the last thing he has this illusion that he has control over...and to see that slipping away makes him nuts (or more nuts).

Their relationship is back on track now, it all came back together, but more on her own terms. Some independent counselling really helped our kidlet to consider the perspectives, so might be worth some further consideration once yours is settled. With any luck, your ex won’t burn his second bridge.

You know I hope I have the same experience but my ex isn't the most intuitive guy. Its why I divorced him and why his other kid won't talk to him. I hope for my daughter's sake it turns out ok but I think its probably an overly optimistic hope.

Thank you for the well wishes.

[Pursuinghappiness]

Just saying. All he has to say is so how come you sent me an email instead of coming to me to talk about?

Well because she's afraid to verbally tell him things because he usually loses his mind on her. They don't "talk"...she states things, he freaks out, and she goes and hides in her room or ends up crying. She HATES having to tell him anything that might cause him to blow up at her.

But I'll tell you for me as a father, if I ever said something that my daughter doesn't like, I would expect her to let me know and talk to me about it in person, face two face.

That's interesting but doesn't address the issues that my daughter is having with her father.

If you're daughter is as smart as you say, I don't think she'll be easily influenced by you, the step dad, biological dad, her peers, or a counselor. My daughter is often told I was never there, I was rude to her mom, I did this and I did that, etc etc. She spends 30 minutes of time with me and realizes I'm nowhere close to this evil man her mom makes me out to be. She loves me and is very happy and in a great mood when she is with me. Always asks to have more time and complains about having to go back so soon.

I never said my ex was evil. I very clearly stated that he has extreme anger issues and vents it upon our kid. My daughter stands up to him but she shouldn't have to. Your situation has NOTHING to do with mine.

Your former husband is obviously going through a difficult time and may have said things he shouldn't have. Bad I don't think he's a bad dad or that he should have a lessened relationship with his daughter. From what you have said, he's not a criminal, and has no addictions. He's willing to move to another country to be closer to his daughter, though I do criticize him for not moving at least within 10-20 minutes of her university but rather 4 hours away. I suppose it is still better than being in a different country than his daughter.

My daughter's father has been going through a difficult time for 30 years...however, this isn't about him....its about her and what she needs which he isn't providing. At this point, how he feels isn't the issue, its how he acts. There are plenty of times that I have bad days or bad times and don't freak out on my kids.

If you think the criteria for fatherhood isn't being a drug addict or criminal, I think that's a pretty low bar. He has had an on and off history of verbal abuse with my daughter to the point that I consider it an absolute blessing that she hasn't suffered more serious consequences. Maybe you don't get that but it doesn't matter what you get. Parents have a standard to live up to.

And for the last time, he is NOT moving to the States to be closer to my daughter. He will be no closer in distance because he is moving north in Michigan and I am moving to Ohio. Timewise, it would be faster for him to drive from where we are in Canada. He is moving because he is from there and spends copious time with his family and wants to live there....and has always wanted to live there.

[trinton]

Well because she's afraid to verbally tell him things because he usually loses his mind on her. They don't "talk"...she states things, he freaks out, and she goes and hides in her room or ends up crying. She HATES having to tell him anything that might cause him to blow up at her.



That's interesting but doesn't address the issues that my daughter is having with her father.



I never said my ex was evil. I very clearly stated that he has extreme anger issues and vents it upon our kid. My daughter stands up to him but she shouldn't have to. Your situation has NOTHING to do with mine.



My daughter's father has been going through a difficult time for 30 years...however, this isn't about him....its about her and what she needs which he isn't providing. At this point, how he feels isn't the issue, its how he acts. There are plenty of times that I have bad days or bad times and don't freak out on my kids.

If you think the criteria for fatherhood isn't being a drug addict or criminal, I think that's a pretty low bar. He has had an on and off history of verbal abuse with my daughter to the point that I consider it an absolute blessing that she hasn't suffered more serious consequences. Maybe you don't get that but it doesn't matter what you get. Parents have a standard to live up to.

And for the last time, he is NOT moving to the States to be closer to my daughter. He will be no closer in distance because he is moving north in Michigan and I am moving to Ohio. Timewise, it would be faster for him to drive from where we are in Canada. He is moving because he is from there and spends copious time with his family and wants to live there....and has always wanted to live there.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand your situation a little better now. Sounds like he's really shooting himself in the foot by not moving to Ohio and rather North Michigan. Or as a better first step, taking some parenting courses.