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  • Withdrawing from FRO and reduction in income

    Ok... the game is on.... after 6 years of making the same income all of a sudden my ex makes $3000 less for the last year. Same place of employment. Now he is asking for a reduction of child support and demanding I withdraw from FRO!! Our agreement states t4’s are to be exchanged in June. And child support adjustment is done then..

    He is threatening a motion if I don’t agree to a basket motion to reduce support and withdraw from FRO.

    Is our agreement still not in effect?? How can he just decide to not pay what he owes according to agreement terms??


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  • #2
    Has he provided documentation?

    You have a motion before the courts. He can bring this forward with his updated financial statement at the next conference.

    I would either ignore him or respond that as this matter is currently scheduled for an appearance at the end of march it can be addressed then when you receive proof of this change and the reasoning behind it.

    Hes still in arrears yes?

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    • #3
      So this was his lawyers response to the lengthy hockey letter.

      His lawyer says they will bring a motion to get child support reduced.

      Except our agreement says it’s to be adjusted in June of each year.

      Also yes he has $1000’s in arrears. Life insurance. Medical expenses. Health benefits. Camp fees for summer daycare will be next.

      We have SC end of March. Ocl disclosure for mid April I’ve been told no definite date yet.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
        So this was his lawyers response to the lengthy hockey letter.
        unless it's on Motion forms- and you guys have been served with the court documents- it's just a threat.

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        • #5
          IMHO you should weight the cost of Legal Fee's Vs Returns (CS).


          3000$ a year less, what does that equate to in term of child support montly? How much are you going to spend to enforce the potential for possible income?


          Furthermore, 1000$ in arrears is small dice... some people are 10's of thousands in arrears.


          With respects to the S.7 expenses, this is where I would really focus my energy and money.


          my 2 cents


          Originally posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
          So this was his lawyers response to the lengthy hockey letter.

          His lawyer says they will bring a motion to get child support reduced.

          Except our agreement says it’s to be adjusted in June of each year.

          Also yes he has $1000’s in arrears. Life insurance. Medical expenses. Health benefits. Camp fees for summer daycare will be next.

          We have SC end of March. Ocl disclosure for mid April I’ve been told no definite date yet.


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          • #6
            I don’t care about $50 less a month in child support. Not a huge deal. But it is fishy and can be brought up at the same time the sect 7’s issue is. But it is when you consider I have been carrying all Sect 7’s for the last year on my own. As He stopped paying.

            I will not withdraw from FRO. He never paid on time. I had to beg him for my support in front of the kids. He would make me watch while he loaded the kids into the car and make me ask for the check. And that was if he remembers it. It was torture for the kids.

            The issue really is.... how does an access parent pay all these things on their own for 4 years... paying all bills on his own living by himself. On the same income. Then moves into a more expensive home with a partner and three kids. And then claims he can’t afford to pay what he has always paid in the past on one household income ???


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            • #7
              The whole thing demonstrates the snake oil salesman aspect of his lawyer. He would have known his income went down at some point last year. Hes just using this now to force you to agree to something he wants. If he wants to update when his income changes then he needs to advise when it changes. As in “my hours have been reduced due to changes at work which means my income is xyz going forward”. If it was simply a short period of time and has since gone up is he going to update it? No. You have a review date which can be addressed at your conference date.

              An alternative is you could request a copy of his three most current pay cheques to determine his current income for support purposes and calculate his overpayment for 2018 and APPLY that overpayment to what he owes. If he disagrees then you stick to the current agreement.

              Or you can do what my partners ex did and simply ignore.

              This is a bullying tactic.

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              • #8
                Good suggestions Rockscan. I will tell lawyer to request these when I speak with him.

                So think they are bluffing about the motion?? His lawyer is slime for sure.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                  unless it's on Motion forms- and you guys have been served with the court documents- it's just a threat.


                  Ok so for right now it’s a threat. But would a lawyer actually bring a motion for this? There is an agreement that states CS to review in June and adjust accordingly. This is in my opinion a tactic. Pay lower support now and next year when court is done. Back to the usual work hours and I am forced to go to court again to raise it.


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                  • #10
                    Withdrawing from FRO and reduction in income

                    Everyone threatens a motion. Its the classic “if you dont do what I want you will be sorry”.

                    He can’t pick and choose when he updates child support. Thats not how it works. If he has a significant change to his income (ie he loses his job or gets a new job at a significant pay increase) then you update but overall you go by annual updates after tax time.

                    In your case, your ex has used whatever tactic possible to avoid paying and is now claiming his income and expenses are precluding him from supporting his kids. That doesnt fly either. He is not responsible for someone else’s children. Its great he has a new spouse, still doesnt preclude his support of his own kids. There are even cases of dads who had second and third families being told sorry but their first kids get priority.

                    As far as his 2018 income is concerned, if he isnt going to update in accordance with your agreement then the request to reconcile with application to arrears is a good play. Hes also in a field where he can be earning more money so why did his income go down? I would be pressing that one with him too especially when hes playing the “Im poor” card.

                    Not worth an emergency call to your lawyer. I would expect that you will have an appointment coming up for your sc next month. Definitely discuss it there. I would also discuss with him how to put some pressure on this “i cant afford two families” bullshit hes playing.

                    Even when my man was unemployed and had thousands in university expenses, I STILL carried a financial weight in our home because he had an obligation to his kids.

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                    • #11
                      mom of 2 - 3 words comes to mind after reading this thread: BRING IT ON

                      I was continually given pitiful threats by my ex. He would go the motion route and lose, each and every time.

                      Never consider dropping out of FRO. Services maintenance enforcement agencies are free and yes, eventually, they do have teeth.

                      Offers to settle are good things too.

                      So... if your ex goes motion route you make sure your lawyer responds with perhaps a counter-claim? Of course you always request costs.

                      Let your ex run up his own legal costs. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Judges do not like people who do not support their children. There is a court-ordered process in place that he doesn't want to follow. This doesn't make him look very good.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arabian View Post
                        mom of 2 - 3 words comes to mind after reading this thread: BRING IT ON

                        I was continually given pitiful threats by my ex. He would go the motion route and lose, each and every time.

                        Never consider dropping out of FRO. Services maintenance enforcement agencies are free and yes, eventually, they do have teeth.

                        Offers to settle are good things too.

                        So... if your ex goes motion route you make sure your lawyer responds with perhaps a counter-claim? Of course you always request costs.

                        Let your ex run up his own legal costs. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Judges do not like people who do not support their children. There is a court-ordered process in place that he doesn't want to follow. This doesn't make him look very good.


                        Thanks Arabian!! I won’t drop fro that’s for sure. And I think a judge would think that’s crazy for him to ask. There was a reason I went through fro. I just can’t swallow that his lawyer doesn’t advise him to pay what he owes. It’s crazy.

                        So you think I would win at said motion ? We would need to cross motion for arrears I guess. In hindsight I wish I would have not instead all the money wasted on letters.

                        Anyone new to litigation reading this. Just as long time members have said. Complete waste of money.


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                        • #13
                          I would not waste your breath until your ex files a notice of motion. Then you respond with an offer to settle (of course with a deadline of 30 days or whatever works for you).

                          Please keep in mind that I am certainly not a lawyer and my litigation was primarily in Alberta. I did not have to waste time with case conferences - just motions. After a few years we did have a case management judge assigned which was good for us. Everything was ordered in courtroom with the same judge presiding. My situation did not involve children and yours does. Notable differences.

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                          • #14
                            I might offer some sobering opinion on this matter. I was faced with a similar situation. I'm a 50/50 parent and pay off-set. My ex stopped working and managed to produce a medical note. I'm not aware of why she can't work and has provided no evidence other than "I cannot work".


                            I had agreed to adjust CS when she requested it, however EX wanted it to be retro-active would not accept a variation and decided to litigate (I'm with FRO). While the judge didn't got back the full period of time, they did go back about a year and a half, and included current years income. So I got hit with a HUGE Retro bill as well as paying costs. Ughhh.


                            Yes, my ex used some dirty tactics and they didn't produce any evidence that should normally be required. They were allowed to make less money and I was on the hook to make up the difference. You may want to look the dollars involved, but for me.


                            Best to keep CS completely separate from other costs. I got caught up with that and it ended badly.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gilligan View Post
                              I might offer some sobering opinion on this matter. I was faced with a similar situation. I'm a 50/50 parent and pay off-set. My ex stopped working and managed to produce a medical note. I'm not aware of why she can't work and has provided no evidence other than "I cannot work".


                              I had agreed to adjust CS when she requested it, however EX wanted it to be retro-active would not accept a variation and decided to litigate (I'm with FRO). While the judge didn't got back the full period of time, they did go back about a year and a half, and included current years income. So I got hit with a HUGE Retro bill as well as paying costs. Ughhh.


                              Yes, my ex used some dirty tactics and they didn't produce any evidence that should normally be required. They were allowed to make less money and I was on the hook to make up the difference. You may want to look the dollars involved, but for me.


                              Best to keep CS completely separate from other costs. I got caught up with that and it ended badly.


                              Thanks for the information. So because his income went down $3k after 6 years of it being the same, your saying just accept it? It isn’t a huge drop in support. I am the recipient.

                              He won’t have a dr’s note. It’s basically unpaid time off due to moving... extra vacations and such.

                              We will ask for current pay stubs. I have to take unpaid time off work all the time. I can’t afford to not “make the time up” so I do and my income stays the same or goes up.

                              Just seems really unfair..

                              But thanks for the input. I’m sure he will win that argument unless the judge really reads the file. Last 3 years 48k. This year 45k while we are in litigation. Convenient.


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