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  • Involving the kids in legal proceedings

    Hi,
    Divorced for 6 years. shared custody and access. Ex is brining me back to court claiming more support. Ex has made kids aware of legal proceedings and informed the kids that I am hiding their money away. That is in addition to negative comments and fabricated lies from the time of the marriage.
    Agreement/order clearly states that children shouldn’t be informed of these issues.
    All this has impacts the relationship with the children to the point that they don’t want to see and say that they hate me and the EX is not encouraging the relationship

    I was thinking to apply for contempt of a court order in order to stop deteriorating the kids relationship with me further.
    Any suggestions ? Have any one tried applying for contempt?
    Thanks

  • #2
    How old are the kids? Have you been updating CS every year?

    Comment


    • #3
      Kids 10 and 12.
      CS has been updated every year, but this year EX decided to ask for more with no justification and hence legal proceedings are in play.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would start with therapy. You cant win a contempt motion. You can put this in your response documents though.

        This is actually something people do all the time. You need to simply let your kids know that this is between you and their mom and that what they are being told is not true and leave it at that.

        Comment


        • #5
          It reached a stage that the kids refuse access and the mom wouldn’t encourage them to have a relationship with their father.
          So I should put a motion to change ?

          Comment


          • #6
            She is obligated to provide you with parenting time. A simple “I will be at your home to collect our children at x time.” And then get them.

            You said she is fighting for more. Has she filed a motion for more support? If she has, you can mention the difficulties in the response. If she hasn’t you would be wasting time and money to file your own.

            Contempt is everest of family court and it is for bigger things than marginalizing the relationship. You need to stop accepting that they don’t want to see you. They are not old enough to make that decision. Keep telling the ex you will exercise your time and look into therapy with the kids. You could also play her game against her by telling her you will take the kids shopping or to activities if thats what she wants the money for. It will backfire on her when you pay for something while spending time with the kids.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              She is obligated to provide you with parenting time. A simple “I will be at your home to collect our children at x time.” And then get them.

              You said she is fighting for more. Has she filed a motion for more support? If she has, you can mention the difficulties in the response. If she hasn’t you would be wasting time and money to file your own.

              Contempt is everest of family court and it is for bigger things than marginalizing the relationship. You need to stop accepting that they don’t want to see you. They are not old enough to make that decision. Keep telling the ex you will exercise your time and look into therapy with the kids. You could also play her game against her by telling her you will take the kids shopping or to activities if thats what she wants the money for. It will backfire on her when you pay for something while spending time with the kids.
              At what age are the children able to make their own decisions about access?

              Comment


              • #8
                From what I understand, most judges will not force a teen (over 14) to spend time with one parent or change custody for them.

                However...they will attempt to “encourage” the other parent to adhere to parenting time and help fix the relationship. Most people realize though that if they need a court in their matter they are dealing with a parent who hates their ex more than they love their kids.

                My best advise gained from my years as an alienated kid and my husbands therapy to deal with his alienation from his kids is to not include them, set boundaries and reduce the fighting. Always consider the kids when dealing with your ex. That should impact your language and what is discussed. Assume everything you say will be twisted by them. Do what is required but leave it at that. Continue to insist you see the kids but don’t engage in any discussions or questions. This matter is between your other parent and I. Change the subject etc.

                It may not always work but as they grow they will see their difficult parent for what they are and slowly drift back to you.

                Highly recommend “A Family’s Heartbreak” by Mike Jeffries.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                  From what I understand, most judges will not force a teen (over 14) to spend time with one parent or change custody for them.

                  However...they will attempt to “encourage” the other parent to adhere to parenting time and help fix the relationship. Most people realize though that if they need a court in their matter they are dealing with a parent who hates their ex more than they love their kids.

                  My best advise gained from my years as an alienated kid and my husbands therapy to deal with his alienation from his kids is to not include them, set boundaries and reduce the fighting. Always consider the kids when dealing with your ex. That should impact your language and what is discussed. Assume everything you say will be twisted by them. Do what is required but leave it at that. Continue to insist you see the kids but don’t engage in any discussions or questions. This matter is between your other parent and I. Change the subject etc.

                  It may not always work but as they grow they will see their difficult parent for what they are and slowly drift back to you.

                  Highly recommend “A Family’s Heartbreak” by Mike Jeffries.
                  Wise words. Thank you

                  My naive mistake was to think that divorce and a detailed agreement with solid parenting plan would resolve the conflict so the kids would not be exposed. It has limited the conflict but it is always present. Maybe that makes them resilient. I really hope so.

                  My wife now says the same thing having been the child of divorce and then divorcing with young children. That the kids are smart and as they mature they will get it. I wish my ex would get it because she is setting up life long resentment for these kids.

                  I think my ex resents the fact my three kids truly adore me.
                  Sad that she herself is a family therapist. She is like a dentist with bad teeth.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
                    Wise words. Thank you

                    My naive mistake was to think that divorce and a detailed agreement with solid parenting plan would resolve the conflict so the kids would not be exposed. It has limited the conflict but it is always present. Maybe that makes them resilient. I really hope so.
                    My husband said the same thing. The third item in their agreement is to not speak poorly to the children or within hearing distance. She broke that even before they signed the agreement and even had the nerve to call him on a comment he made to his oldest about her. Yet she put him on speaker phone and then egged him into arguments, told the kids he wasn’t paying for stuff, accused him of various things and encouraged the kids to not see him. I demanded he see a therapist at the two year mark as it was taking an emotional toll on him. The therapist made him implement boundaries and change his approach. Sadly the kids decided if they couldn’t start fights then they weren’t going to talk to him.

                    My wife now says the same thing having been the child of divorce and then divorcing with young children. That the kids are smart and as they mature they will get it. I wish my ex would get it because she is setting up life long resentment for these kids.
                    I reconnected with my father about ten years ago. Now, he is definitely not a good person and he always puts himself first. He has burned me in those ten years and I have had to learn my own boundaries with him but it was not my mothers place to do what she did. As for my husbands kids, they are old enough to see through the garbage but believe their mother is a victim and until they see through that there is no hope. It is sad and I hate seeing my husband hurting especially considering my history with my father and the fact he is not the person his ex paints him as. I have limited hope as his kids are pretty selfish and his ex is extremely toxic.

                    I think my ex resents the fact my three kids truly adore me.
                    Sad that she herself is a family therapist. She is like a dentist with bad teeth.

                    My husbands ex wants to punish him for the divorce. She initiated it and was abusive throughout their marriage but it is all about control. He wouldn’t do what she wanted so she forced him out. Then she set about dismantling him in the eyes of his kids to make him pay for taking what was his in the divorce. It is so sick and twisted and I really pity the kids (to a point) for what she has done to them. What I have encouraged for him was to focus on things that he enjoys to help him reconnect with who he was before the marriage. Hopefully when the kids come around he will be an even better person emotionally and able to focus on healthy behaviours with them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank your for sharing these thoughts. I have a saying that everyone reveals themselves, good and bad, and when they do pay attention.
                      I am now praying that somehow the other parent will finally see the light. But I am not hopeful. When she decided to become a therapist after the divorce and with young kids I thought there might be hope she would take her own advice. Not at all. But that leads me to another observation that many of these family therapists are screwed up, maybe trying to solve their own problems. I tried everything to make the marriage work and of the 5 counsellors we saw none were helpful in the least. One was completely negligent.

                      This family law system is severaly broken. It would be so much more effective to have experts on the government payroll to mediate, counsel and resolve all issues using actual law instead of precedent. It is so half assed and is a retirement plan for lawyers. The children are only really protected from crime, not from irrational parents. And the lawyers are too often complicit in fuelling the fires. That has been my experience. Plus very very sloppy much of the time.
                      Alas the final attempt to settle with a judge is next week and if not off to trial. Their single offer was a joke, adding claims and ridiculous changes that were not in the original pleadings.
                      The main claim was for sole custody after 8 years (you commented on that thread). Now they come back with offering me joint custody (that is already there) on the condiction that their parenting coordinator (with awful reviews) is assigned as arbitrator over al major decisions and I pay 75% whenever anything is sent to her. I may as well sign over the house, cars and pension right now.
                      Nope, my briefs are in, my opening is ready, cross examination is detailed, testimony memorized and 3 big binders of exhibits ready to go.
                      I sent them notice that I will be claiming costs as a SRL at my professional rate (designated accountant). They replied that I would never get a cent. We shall see because I now expect to win 90% of the claims and counter claims. But noone wins, we all lose except the fat cat lawyers. Even the public loses with all this cost in the court.
                      Insane. but real.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Keepgoing View Post
                        Kids 10 and 12.
                        CS has been updated every year, but this year EX decided to ask for more with no justification and hence legal proceedings are in play.

                        Is this shared custody? Yes/no?
                        Or does your ex have the bulk of the parenting time, leaving you to pay table support for the two kids?



                        Seeking more child support, with "no justification"? She must be seeking something though? Is it section 7 or special expenses? Does she think you are just not paying according to your income?





                        If you pay full table support already, then that is pretty simple to show you are paying what you should.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abba435 View Post
                          I sent them notice that I will be claiming costs as a SRL at my professional rate (designated accountant). They replied that I would never get a cent. We shall see because I now expect to win 90% of the claims and counter claims.
                          My understanding is that you have to win 100% in order to get costs. My lawyer made me drop everything that had a slight possibility that I would not "win". Even if you do get costs, it is RARELY at what you are seeking. Not even half. Many spend $100,000 in legal fees, to win, and then get a cost award of $25,000. Where there is high conflict, judges give even harder consideration to not awarding costs to ensure not to add fuel to an existing fire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
                            My understanding is that you have to win 100% in order to get costs. My lawyer made me drop everything that had a slight possibility that I would not "win". Even if you do get costs, it is RARELY at what you are seeking. Not even half. Many spend $100,000 in legal fees, to win, and then get a cost award of $25,000. Where there is high conflict, judges give even harder consideration to not awarding costs to ensure not to add fuel to an existing fire.
                            Partial indemnity is the goal. They keep threatening how they will win costs. I am not biting.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No matter who "wins" costs, it won't nearly be as much as you have put in.

                              For those who win a costs award with a lawyer, they "may" recover 25% of what what they spent on legal fees spent.

                              For self-reps, it is EXTREMELY unlikely you will be awarded a costs award. There are rare cases where a self-rep will be awarded a cost value on the time spent preparing for the case. These are extremely rare where the other party was completely unreasonable and just wasting everyone's time and resources. Again, for self-rep, it is extremely rare to be awarded a cost award.

                              Comment

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