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    I want to make an offer to my ex who I've been paying SS for the last 5 years in ending the SS all together. I have at least 2 more to 3 years to pay at this point. Regarding my offer, if she accepts it and signs off, can she somehow try to come back for SS in the future? I'm obviously going to have this done thru my lawyer.

  • #2
    are you thinking of offering her a lump sum payment?

    Comment


    • #3
      You could put something in the offer saying that by accepting the offer ex agrees that she relinquishes all future claims on your earnings (other people probably have suggestions for how to word this better). However, as I understand it there's always the possibility that ex could claim she was misinformed or uninformed about something crucial before she agreed to the offer, or that her circumstances have changed in a way which could not have been foreseen at the time the offer was made, and can try to re-open it. So I think you can write something up which is 99% safe against being re-opened, but nothing is 100%.

      Also bear in mind that SS is tax-deductible for you, while a lump-sum payment is not.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes it's a lump payment. This is what worries me that 1% chance. Let's say I wait until a judge finally says no more support and I'm finally off the hook. Three years later circumstances change and all of a sudden she decides to come back and try and reopen the case? Where does it end. No male or in some cases a female who are the higher income earners should be held liable when a decision is made to end SS legally. All I'm trying to do is just move on with my life. She works and makes a good living wage at half my income. Where would she be without me as she is now? She would be doing quite fine. I don't pay a huge amount although it would be nice one day having my full pay check back.

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        • #5
          And you could pay for 3 more years and then stop and then she'd come back for more anyhow...

          Go for it is what I say!

          Comment


          • #6
            Well if you make an agreement yuo need to write it well to say that in no circumstances (sickess, health, loss of employment etc....) will any more support be due. The issue is that if there is an "unforseen change of circumstances" the agreement can be re-opened.

            Comment


            • #7
              Se this is where I find this so u fair to the paying spouse. This is not is life time thing here. Unforeseen circumstances?? Really??? Where did this end? I'm remarried and let's say I better my career from my current earning and make an extra 50K a year and all if a sudden she can try and reopen the support order and be entitled to my new found income? My new wife isn't entitled to my earnings either? There has to be something written legally where it protects the paying spouse from having to ever deal with this possible scenario. I've never heard of anyone I know that has had this happen to them. When it's over, it's over as it should be. My ex has a decent wage and has no mortgage. She is doing quite well.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Baffled_Dad View Post
                Se this is where I find this so u fair to the paying spouse. This is not is life time thing here. Unforeseen circumstances?? Really??? Where did this end? I'm remarried and let's say I better my career from my current earning and make an extra 50K a year and all if a sudden she can try and reopen the support order and be entitled to my new found income? My new wife isn't entitled to my earnings either? There has to be something written legally where it protects the paying spouse from having to ever deal with this possible scenario. I've never heard of anyone I know that has had this happen to them. When it's over, it's over as it should be. My ex has a decent wage and has no mortgage. She is doing quite well.
                She becomes disabled and can't pay for herself then they give you the bill. But if you word your agreement well you are protected as much as possible anyways.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You want a spousal support release clause, from the sounds of it.

                  I don't know how ironclad it actually is, but here's mine as an example.

                  1) There shall be no spousal support paid or payable to or from either X or R.

                  2) X and R are financially independent of each other and release his or her rights to spousal support from the other, now and forever.

                  3) X and R intend this Agreement to be forever final and non-variable except where expressly stated otherwise.

                  4) for greater certainty, the parties acknowledge that:
                  a) they have negotiated this Agreement in an unimpeachable fashion and that the terms of this Agreement fully represent their intentions and expectations;
                  b) they have had independent legal advice and all the disclosure they have requested and require to understand the nature and consequences of this Agreement, and to come to the conclusion, as they do, that the terms of this Agreement, including the release of all spousal support rights, reflects an equitable sharing of the economic consequences of their relationship and its breakdown;
                  c) the terms of this Agreement substantially comply with the overall objectives of the Divorce Act now and in the future;
                  d) they require the courts to respect their autonomy to achieve certainty and finality in their lives;
                  e) the terms of this Agreement and, in particular, this release of spousal support reflect his and her own particular objectives and concerns, and are intended to be a final and certain settling of all spousal support issues between them; and,
                  f) among other considerations, they are also relying on this spousal release, in particular, upon which to base their future lives.

                  5) X and R specifically wish to be able to pursue their separate and independent lives, no matter what changes may occur. X and R specifically anticipate that one or both of them may lose their jobs, become ill and unable to work, have additional child care responsibilities that will interfere with their ability to work, find their financial resources diminished or exhausted whether through their own fault or not, or be affected by general economic and family conditions changing over time. Changes in their circumstances may be catastrophic, unanticipated or beyond their imagination. Nevertheless, no change, no matter how extreme or consequential for either or both of them, will alter this agreement and their views that the terms of this Agreement reflect their intention to always be separate financially. X and R fully accept that no change whatsoever in either or both of their circumstances will entitle either of them to spousal support from the other, now and forever.

                  6) In short, the parties expect the courts to enforce fully this spousal support release no matter what occurs in the future.
                  The hard part is convincing her to sign something like this. You may have to agree to keep paying SS for three more years first before it kicks in.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rioe View Post

                    The hard part is convincing her to sign something like this. You may have to agree to keep paying SS for three more years first before it kicks in.
                    My settlement was very similar to Rioe's - the clincher was that Ex offered me a lump-sum in lieu of ongoing SS. If you want her to accept a deal where SS is permanently abolished, you have to sweeten the deal somehow. It could be a lump-sum offer, or equity in the mat. home or some other asset.

                    *** the idea is to go for clean break.
                    Last edited by Janibel; 04-14-2015, 12:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You're looking for certainty...and in this life there aren't many things that will provide that.

                      A lawyer will always be found who will take your ex's money, serve you, and try to argue the case in court. Doesn't mean they'll succeed, but others are correct that it *will* depend on her circumstances and need.

                      All judges are not created equal. They're human and each definitely has his/her own set of life experiences and biases.

                      So your options are clear: (a) pay support with a cut-off date at some point down the road that will almost certainly need to be argued as a motion. (b) make a lump sum payout with as binding an agreement as you can get her to agree to that will always be open to an attempt to revisit it. That's the best the system can do. And don't forget that the Other Side has to agree to your 'binding agreement'. You won't be able to proceed without her agreement in any case.

                      Whether she might successfully challenge it years from now will depend on her circumstances at that time (unknowable at this time, right?), the skill of your lawyer vs hers, and the judge you get.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I understand the whole iron clad thing here. It's still very confusing. What happen to half or duration of the marriage for the paying spouse? Let's say I just wait it out until the half way mark of duration. My lawyer gets my SS terminated. 5 or 10 years don the road she can try and reopen SS again? Let's say my inciome is $50K higher. All of a sudden she's entitled to my new found income? Come on!!?! She is making a good wage and owns her own home from the assets we once shared. She is doing better than most woman that are in the same situation let alone most single woman trying to make ends meet. Where does this end!!! My only hope is that she remarry or die?? What gives here? This is not an indefinite thing if you take into account the duration of my marriage. I certainly will not hand over a penny iif there is a chance this can be reopened. I'd rather invest the money I was going to offer over the next two or three years. Has anyon of you heard of cases being reopened after a certain length of time? Keep in mind I've already bought her out of my pension with a cash settlement and retirement is 12-15 years away for me anyway.
                        I'm sorry!! This archaic law we have is out of control. If every young man and woman who are thinking of marriage who are going to be the bread winners could be educated on what's ahead for each of them, I bet you most would reconsider marriage. It's an absolute death sentence for for anyone who has to go thru this. The stress alone isn't worth it, and then there are the kids too. I'm not saying its all bad. I've remarried and my wife doesn't take spousal or child support for their daughter from her ex and they seem to work things out quite well. My step daughter has the best of both worlds having two dads and treats me as if I were her real father. There's no animosity between anyone. I consider myself lucky.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Assume if it ends its over...

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                          • #14
                            Trust me! That's all I care about.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As it was recently explained to me, the courts are now reluctant to be put in the position of predicting the future. As a result judges are very reluctant to specify termination dates for SS.

                              It was also stated by the judge that given the (relatively short) duration of many marriages these days, a marriage of, say...12 years that *used* to be considered a medium-term marriage is now considered a long-term marriage.

                              That said, the old rule-of-thumb of 1 year of SS for every 2 years of marriage is still more-or-less used as a starting point...but again, keep in mind the reluctance of inking termination dates for SS. The best one can hope for these days is a clause that allows for review of SS quantum that would be triggered after a certain number of years; a change in income or circumstances; the payor's retirement; a serious change in health of either party; or a remarriage or lasting common-law relationship on the part of the recipient (ie. 2+ years).

                              It can also be triggered by a demonstrable lack of effort on the part of the recipient to become self-supporting...but this would probably not be before about 5 years after a Final Order. And I was advised that almost any judge will grant another 2 years 'grace' to the recipient for 'mental anguish, suffering, emotional exhaustion, etc. etc.'.

                              Personally, I would: (1) keep paying; (2) document her lack of efforts to become self-sustaining (your Agreement has clauses that require her to make & report on her efforts, right?); (3) enjoy & invest the tax break from the SS; and (4) plan very carefully for when & how you're going to bring a Motion for review of spousal support.

                              Comment

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