SUPPORT ORDERS (Changes to)

[hadenough]

Hello Everyone,
Does anyone have any info/suggestions re: IS IT POSSIBLE to change a support order? It's a final order (we had trial) but there's still a few corrections being made ie: THE WRONG DATES of Trial are on it - and a few other errors.. so this is not with the FRO yet. I've emailed my lawyer twice, and ofcourse - it's like pulling teeth.. I have never seen or heard of an order that does not allow for extraordinary expenses, dental/medical, sports (extracurriculars). My order (my side was awarded 'costs') has absolutely no provisions/allowances made for ANYTHING other than a flat monthly amount. Standard to have included: a Life Insurance policy taken out by the payor (on his/her self), with the RECIPIENT as a beneficiary in an amt. that secures the child support (and/or spousal) order. Not only was this left out, but there is NOTHING re: dental.. My ex has controlled me/us for long enough with financial terrorizing.. so now - my child is FINALLY (after several years of not being able to get involved in any sport) involved in ONE sport - the ex had said he'd contribute - and now (even though I've yet to see one cent of the "new amount" ) he's refusing to contribute anything.. his reply "your new child support amount should cover it" - - More CONTROL. This is outrageous and the order I got (was done in haste - I happen to know this b/c it took calling the MIN of the Attorney general to even GET IT RELEASED after many, many months) is B.S. Is it not standard to have some allowances made for ie: dental/medical, sports - not sure if this falls under "extraordinary" or not. All I know is: this order is NOT totally final "yet" in the sense that there are a few changes to be made - not to the "amount" but the specifications (of the order itself).. can this be done? and if so, HOW? If I don't hear back from my lawyer - it will be too late and I have no idea what, or if I personally can do anything about this. Thanks all..

[beebie]

Where were you at the trial when you were supposed to be entering evidence as to s.7 expenses? I believe the Federal Child Support Guidelines allow for s.7 expenses so unless you waived them or reserved them, I think you are entitled under the legislation.

Did you approve the Judgment or Order that was granted with your signature? If so, why? Was it shown to you?

You can appeal any Order within a specified number of days (30 in Alberta...check with your Courthouse).

Otherwise, talk to your court clerks or FLIC office about bringing a new application or motion or whatever to vary the prevous Order...you might need a material change of circumstance of the chlldren that wasn't foreseen at trial or new evidence as to income....good question for a lawyer. Maybe you can get a free consultation with a lawyer.

[beebie]

Oh sorry you have a lawyer. So talk to your lawyer ; he would have signed any Order granted at trial. They always say there is no such thing as a Final Order in family law no matter what the Order says if you have a reason to vary recognized in the applicable Act.

[hadenough]

Thanks, and yes I have a lawyer but like most, its next to impossible to reach him or get a response. I would think it's standard to have specifics like the ones I mention in any order for support. The "courts" must know that many ex's are not exactly cooperative. If they were- things wouldn't end up IN court. All this is, as it stands now is another "break" he has received - and I feel shortchanged, in more ways than one. My ex is a financial bully, a bully in general. Can't wait to see how long it takes before he cancels our child's cell phone which is currently under his (he's self-employed) cell phone plan. He will cxl it for sure - even though he's in a 3yr contract with the cell ph provider and would be required to pay about 25-30 dollars a month, even if the phone was not in use. This is the type of thing he would (and will do) just to stick it to me. As well, (he and his wife SHOP all the time and have 2 very young children together) - I'm just waiting to hear my child say "oh Dad won't buy me anything anymore b/c he says he can't afford to b/c he's paying you so much now" - This is all coming, I already know it. I do not speak to my child's father at all and haven't, for several years. Its best that way, for us, anyway. I cannot stand our Family Court System. I think it totally Sucks. And I also cannot believe how widely acceptable Lying and Perjury are. It's the status quo.

[Cobourg]

We had a trial and a "final" order was made on the issues that the Judge heard. The order had some fairly significant omissions and some things that needed to be corrected. Things like spousal support should be "renewed in five years" instead of "reviewed in five years"....stuff like that.
Both of us were unrepresented at trial, so I wrote to the Judge and copied my ex with the things that I thought needed to be added or adjusted.
Mailed it to the court house and got a responce in about 3 weeks with a copy of the adjusted "final" order.
No problem or questions...it was just changed.
I would suggest you document what you want changed and ask your lawyer to submit it to the court in the same manner as I did. Copy your ex through their lawyer.

Good Luck.

[hadenough]

Beebie, you are correct re: s7 expenses. Talked to a lawyer. s7 expenses are above and beyond the support order made and this was overlooked in my ruling. I'm offering to do a 50/50 split, we'll see where that goes. Otherwise I can file a motion for a proportional split based on mine and the ex's (ruled) income and I would be entitled to something more like a 60/40 split or better b/c his income is substantially higher than mine. Thx for the great advice and just wanted to share the extra info that I gathered, on this. I'm going to get this dealt with asap.

[billm]

Medical and dental and post secondary school is not part of CS, so he is responsible for this in proportion to his income.

Keep receipts, provide them to him and request his portion - if they add up enough, you can take him to court again I suppose. I am not sure how people get a reluctant parent to pay section 7 because it is not in a court order as it is a variable amount, so FRO type agency cannot collect I believe.

CS covers everything else generally, including sports and other extracurricular. Section 7 expenses (except medical/dental and post secondary) are discretionary (ie extraordinary), so he can refuse them if he does not want to spend the extra money on that.

So technically, he does not have to buy things for his daughter, that is what the CS to you is for.

[hadenough]

Thx. Makes sense. I just wish some people weren't such d-bags! I hope to never have to "go to court" again but that's more fantasy than reality. Just walking into Court makes me feel likethe life is draining out of me. I should know by mid nxt week where I "got" with my s.7 issues. Will post a thread if there's anything productive/factual to share. Happy Thanksgiving everyone )

[hadenough]

Billm, I totally get that he doesn't "have to buy" him anything. I just meant that typically he does, and I'm just waiting for his announcement to child that he "can't" anymore and he will say I'm the reason. He was paying 400/mo. Then out of the blue dropped it to 300 (2 yrs ago). He continued to buy things (shoes/skateboards etc)b/c he blows money like water. In trial his income got imputed at over 85g so the order from trial now has him owing more. Its yet to be seen. We never did have an interim order. This is our first ever support order after 3 yrs in Family Court.

[hadenough]

Special or extraordinary expenses
Section 7:
7.**(1)**In an order for the support of a child, the court may, on the request of either parent or spouse or of an applicant under section 33 of the Act, provide for an amount to cover all or any portion of the following expenses, which expenses may be estimated, taking into account the necessity of the expense in relation to the child’s best interests and the reasonableness of the expense in relation to the means of the parents or spouses and those of the child and to the spending pattern of the parents or spouses in respect of the child during cohabitation:

(a) child care expenses incurred as a result of the custodial parent’s employment, illness, disability or education or training for employment;

(b) that portion of the medical and dental insurance premiums attributable to the child;

(c) health-related expenses that exceed insurance reimbursement by at least $100 annually, including orthodontic treatment, professional counselling provided by a psychologist, social worker, psychiatrist or any other person, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, prescription drugs, hearing aids, glasses and contact lenses;

(d) extraordinary expenses for primary or secondary school education or for any other educational programs that meet the child’s particular needs;

(e) expenses for post-secondary education; and

(f) extraordinary expenses for extracurricular activities. O.*Reg. 391/97, s.*7*(1); O.*Reg. 446/01, s.*2.

Definition, “extraordinary expenses”

(1.1)**For the purposes of clauses (1) (d) and (f),

“extraordinary expenses” means

(a) expenses that exceed those that the parent or spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that parent’s or spouse’s income and the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate, or

(b) where clause (a) is not applicable, expenses that the court considers are extraordinary taking into account,

(i) the amount of the expense in relation to the income of the parent or spouse requesting the amount, including the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate,

(ii) the nature and number of the educational programs and extracurricular activities,

(iii) any special needs and talents of the child,

(iv) the overall cost of the programs and activities, and

(v) any other similar factors that the court considers relevant. O.*Reg. 102/06, s.*1.

[billm]

Nice cut and paste - can you summarize it and state why you posted it?

[hadenough]

Yes. Cut and pasted. No, I can't: that's why I copied and pasted it. It relates to an earlier response I rec'd and I think what I posted captures the full definition. It's meant to inform. Nothing more, nothing less.

[billm]

Yes. Cut and pasted. No, I can't: that's why I copied and pasted it. It relates to an earlier response I rec'd and I think what I posted captures the full definition. It's meant to inform. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for your summation and stating why you posted it.

[beebie]

maybe should have cut and pasted it to lawyer prior to trial since it seems to have slipped his mind