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  • Interim ss and cs

    Had a 4 way meeting the other day (me, cl stbx and our lawyers). Didn't turn out too well, stbx's lawyer is trying to get full ss (cuz she has fibromyalgia) and full cs (biological father of her daughter is on disability, is registered with FRO) and still isn't paying cs).

    The meeting ended with the stbx's lawyer getting quite angry because my lawyer states I shouldn't have to pay the full amount of cs because the bio dad is on the record (FRO) of owing the stbx cs still.

    Her lawyer states the bio dad is a deadbeat and there's no way they can get $$ from him so I should pay the full cs.

    For ss, her lawyer states I should pay a higher amount because of the stbx's diagnosis of fibromyalgia. (Oh..and indefinetly..the 2 of us were cl for 11 years)

    Basically the meeting didn't go well at all both the stbx and he lawyer stormed out of the meeting yelling about interim support and 10 grand in arrears!!

    Long story short, my lawyer suggests I offer 1500/mth (cs and ss) until it comes to an agreement in court.

    I have a problem with this, I've stated this to my lawyer..1500/mth is going to be quite tough financially (with rent, car payments, insurance, etc)

    The ex lives in her fathers rent free abandoned farm house (which I renovated over the past 11 years)

    Should I agree with the 1500/mth until we come to an agreement?? My lawyer states it'll take away from any arrears they claim I should pay. I'm battling hard for a reduced cs AND any ss ( she has a fulltime job and had the job since day 1 when I 1st moved into her house)

    It's a messed up story..I apologize if I've left out any crucial details..minds racing!!

    Any advice would be appreciated

  • #2
    Have you punched your numbers into mysupportcalculator.ca ?

    She has a full time job currently?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
      Have you punched your numbers into mysupportcalculator.ca ?

      She has a full time job currently?
      Hey berner..yes we were all arguing about ss entitlement and reduced cs entitlement and duration.

      My lawyer and I used divorce mate, brought the papers and discussed it with her lawyer with the stbx present also.

      Her lawyer (which made it a point that she's been in the family law business for 21 years) states she DOESNT use divorce mate to settle any of her cases (I was like what??)

      The stbx has had a job since the day I met her..she never had to stay home, move or jeopardize her career at all for my career!

      I moved into her house, etc..it's a really f'ed up situation really

      Comment


      • #4
        She has a job, has always had a job, and did not suffer due to the relationship? SS should be a total wash.

        How much do you make? Ballpark? How much does she?

        For the CS...pay her your full table less bio-dad's full table. Keep receipts.
        If they haul you to court, ask for costs.

        Also...DO NOT agree to SS. If you start paying it in the interim, you are automatically agreeing to her entitlement. PAY NOTHING for SS without an order. BANK as much as you can, just in case you get hit with worse case scenario)

        So if she is claiming SS, does that mean you get to claim against her house?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
          She has a job, has always had a job, and did not suffer due to the relationship? SS should be a total wash.

          How much do you make? Ballpark? How much does she?

          For the CS...pay her your full table less bio-dad's full table. Keep receipts.
          If they haul you to court, ask for costs.

          Also...DO NOT agree to SS. If you start paying it in the interim, you are automatically agreeing to her entitlement. PAY NOTHING for SS without an order. BANK as much as you can, just in case you get hit with worse case scenario)

          So if she is claiming SS, does that mean you get to claim against her house?
          I'm pulling in over 100 grand a year, she makes 29-35 grand a year.

          I met her while she was living with her 2 kids in the farmhouse she's in now (owned by her dad but he left it sitting empty for years before she moved in)

          The house is in her dads name.

          Like I mentioned earlier, the lawyer figures if I do the full cs now and the lower end of the scale as, when it goes to case conference the judge will see that at least I've attempted and if he decides she's not liable for ss and a limited cs, all that I've paid her (where u say keep the receipts) will come of any arrears where she may end up owing me $$ in the long run.

          I've also refurbished the whole interior of the house so I either get my belongings back or she reimburses me for it.

          If I agree to the ss now in the interim and it goes to case conference, you really believe the judge will so oh well, continue paying it then??

          That's the 1st thing I asked the lawyer and she seems to think otherwise

          Comment


          • #6
            Just some random thoughts...

            -I tend to agree that its far from a slam dunk that she's even entitled to SS. She had and maintained the same job she had before you met. So what does she need to be "compensated" for. Personally, I wouldn't pay any SS unless so ordered to do so - even interim like others say tends to show you concur. HOWEVER, maybe offer her a lump sum of cash - don't call it SS - maybe even "give her" the equity you put in house and have her permanently waive SS.

            -for CS, review the term "in loco parentis". My point is, they have to PROVE you "acted like a parent". Hopefully they won't meet that burder and you may not have to pay any CS. Personally, the idea of being stung paying CS for someone's elses kids in effing insane !!!!

            -while everything should be reviewed by a lawyer, keep in mind some lawyers are better than others ! No one will care as much about the outcome of the matter as you - don't "blindly" believe what they say - if in doubt perhaps seek 2nd opinion.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shellshocked22 View Post
              Just some random thoughts...

              -I tend to agree that its far from a slam dunk that she's even entitled to SS. She had and maintained the same job she had before you met. So what does she need to be "compensated" for. Personally, I wouldn't pay any SS unless so ordered to do so - even interim like others say tends to show you concur. HOWEVER, maybe offer her a lump sum of cash - don't call it SS - maybe even "give her" the equity you put in house and have her permanently waive SS.

              -for CS, review the term "in loco parentis". My point is, they have to PROVE you "acted like a parent". Hopefully they won't meet that burder and you may not have to pay any CS. Personally, the idea of being stung paying CS for someone's elses kids in effing insane !!!!

              -while everything should be reviewed by a lawyer, keep in mind some lawyers are better than others ! No one will care as much about the outcome of the matter as you - don't "blindly" believe what they say - if in doubt perhaps seek 2nd opinion.....

              Thanks shell;

              I've filled the role of "in loco parentis" I've attended many parent teacher interviews, had the stbx and both her kids on my health plan, I've punished the kids when need be, etc..I'm not denying it at all.

              The reduced cs I can handle, the fact that the stbx and her lawyer seem to think I should pay full table amount is insane to me also.

              The ss I have a HUGE problem with, she was recently diagnosed with fibromyalgia and her lawyers harping on it pretty good!!

              My lawyer has said the minimum she feels after an 11 year cl relationship, I'd be looking at 5 years support.

              It's apparently going to a case conference (if that's what it's called..her lawyer yelled and screamed something before THEY stormed out) but my understanding is a judge is going to look over our complaints/answers and give his opinion for more mediation.

              Again, in the meantime, my lawyer has suggested I pay 1500/mth until we settle, the interim states:

              "the interim agreement is without prejudice to the stbx's claim to spousal should it be higher and adjusted retroactively and without prejudice to my right to claim that the amount should be lower OR that NO SPOUSAL support should be payable"

              So with the above wording, am I kinda covering all bases here??

              Comment


              • #8
                I still wouldn't. If she's getting money from you, why the hell should she settle?
                Also, without a signed agreement, you don't get any tax breaks from it. with a signed order for spousal, assuming she is even successful, you can claim it on your taxes.

                I still say you should instruct your lawyer that you feel she does not meet the entitlement for spousal, given her employment suffered no undue hardship because of the relationship (and actually benefitted from it) so no spousal should be due.

                Bank the funds just in case. If you are not fighting the in loco parentis thing, like I said, start sending her the different between YOUR full table and her ex's full table. (via documented method)

                In the absence of an order, you pay based on what you believe is the expected outcome.

                You want to encourage her to settle...if she's getting 1500+ from you/month interim, and it looks like she'll get well less than that:

                1. Expect her to start delaying
                2. You'll never see the money back. (She'll cry poor)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                  I still wouldn't. If she's getting money from you, why the hell should she settle?
                  Also, without a signed agreement, you don't get any tax breaks from it. with a signed order for spousal, assuming she is even successful, you can claim it on your taxes.

                  I still say you should instruct your lawyer that you feel she does not meet the entitlement for spousal, given her employment suffered no undue hardship because of the relationship (and actually benefitted from it) so no spousal should be due.

                  Bank the funds just in case. If you are not fighting the in loco parentis thing, like I said, start sending her the different between YOUR full table and her ex's full table. (via documented method)

                  In the absence of an order, you pay based on what you believe is the expected outcome.

                  You want to encourage her to settle...if she's getting 1500+ from you/month interim, and it looks like she'll get well less than that:

                  1. Expect her to start delaying
                  2. You'll never see the money back. (She'll cry poor)
                  Completely agree with NBDad.

                  True story: Knew someone who was in a situation very similar to yours. His lawyer, like yours, advised him to pay X amount that was considered "safe" in the interim, about $1200 in spousal (for a 10 year common law relationship and very similar incomes to your situation) in addition to CS. The idea was that he would pay "in good faith" and "without prejudice" so as to encourage settlement. Once he started paying, the conflict starting ratcheting up from month to month, the demands became more unreasonable. 5 months of this later, when entitlement still was not proven, I suggested to said friend that perhaps he should just stop the SS that the other party seems unwilling or unable to prove entitlement for. Against the advice of his lawyer, he stopped paying SS and any other interim amount except for full table CS. Within a month, the other party capitulated and he had a signed settlement agreement with a paltry amount of SS agreed to compared to what was demanded.

                  Now i'm not telling you to ignore the advice of your lawyer, nor am i saying that your situation is going to turn out like this one. However, it's food for thought. In my opinion, my friend's ex-spouse was simply using the SS money she received to fund her lawyer and increasing unreasonable demands. Once the extra funds were cut off, she had no choice but/more incentive to settle.

                  CS is different, but NEVER PAY SS WITHOUT PROVEN/OBVIOUS ENTITLEMENT.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm with everybody else on this one. She was employed before you met her, maintained the same job during your relationship, and still has it, even past her diagnosis. The relationship did not harm her career, and her health does not prevent her from continuing her career. She has very little entitlement to spousal support. Your default position should be that no spousal support is required of you. Paying something in the interim just undermines that position.

                    She has benefited from your income during the relationship, while you benefited from her rent-free house. Quite fair to part ways with nothing more exchanged. Take half the furniture you bought and leave.

                    As for CS, if you feel parental towards her daughter, it's appropriate to pay some, as well as to have continued contact with the kid. Poor kid losing another father figure just because her mother broke up again! But it's not your problem that her biological father is a deadbeat. Maybe pay half your table amount as some sort of offset, if you don't know what his amount would be to subtract from yours as your lawyer suggests.

                    And yeah, never hurts to be thrifty till you have either an agreement or a court order, so that you can afford any arrears. But keep it yourself just in case you need it, don't give it to her now to prevent possible arrears. Because if you don't end up paying SS, you will have a very hard time getting money back from her. Then YOU can be the one dragging things out and create a status quo of her demonstrating she doesn't need the money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                      I'm with everybody else on this one. She was employed before you met her, maintained the same job during your relationship, and still has it, even past her diagnosis. The relationship did not harm her career, and her health does not prevent her from continuing her career. She has very little entitlement to spousal support. Your default position should be that no spousal support is required of you. Paying something in the interim just undermines that position.

                      She has benefited from your income during the relationship, while you benefited from her rent-free house. Quite fair to part ways with nothing more exchanged. Take half the furniture you bought and leave.

                      As for CS, if you feel parental towards her daughter, it's appropriate to pay some, as well as to have continued contact with the kid. Poor kid losing another father figure just because her mother broke up again! But it's not your problem that her biological father is a deadbeat. Maybe pay half your table amount as some sort of offset, if you don't know what his amount would be to subtract from yours as your lawyer suggests.

                      And yeah, never hurts to be thrifty till you have either an agreement or a court order, so that you can afford any arrears. But keep it yourself just in case you need it, don't give it to her now to prevent possible arrears. Because if you don't end up paying SS, you will have a very hard time getting money back from her. Then YOU can be the one dragging things out and create a status quo of her demonstrating she doesn't need the money.
                      Hey thanks everyone!! Definetly food for thought!! We have a case conference on the 11th..I'll bring these points up aggressively with my lawyer and take it from there.

                      I'm sure they'll be more mediation after th cc!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You more than likely won't get jack squat accomplished at the CC. You can ONLY get orders done "on consent", meaning the other side has to pull their head out of their butts and agree.

                        Sounds like the chances of that happening are minimal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                          You more than likely won't get jack squat accomplished at the CC. You can ONLY get orders done "on consent", meaning the other side has to pull their head out of their butts and agree.

                          Sounds like the chances of that happening are minimal.
                          Ok..thanks for the heads up NBDad..wasn't really quite sure what to expect...my lawyer gave me a quick rundown and basically said the same thing.

                          I don't expect anything to be resolved after the cc, I'm dealing with the stbx and her lawyer being EXCEPTIONALLY stubborn..

                          I mean me having VERY LITTLE experience with family law, when I heard opposing counsels demands I near laughed in her face!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                            As for CS, if you feel parental towards her daughter, it's appropriate to pay some
                            Absolutely not. If you feel parental, then buy things for her daughter yourself. If you hand cash over to her mother, she can spend it on lube for nightly orgies for all you know. At least if you spend the money on the daughter directly, you know that it is being used appropriately.

                            There is nothing noble or parental about supporting the mother.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Janus View Post
                              Absolutely not. If you feel parental, then buy things for her daughter yourself. If you hand cash over to her mother, she can spend it on lube for nightly orgies for all you know. At least if you spend the money on the daughter directly, you know that it is being used appropriately.

                              There is nothing noble or parental about supporting the mother.
                              Lol..Janus!! Thanks for that picture

                              I understand what ur saying though and ur absolutely correct!!

                              Comment

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