Newborn, CAS and grandparents

[paris]

A week ago my son became a father. He's 38. Mom is much younger. So, we now have a beautiful granddaughter that we see every single day. The parent's relationship was only somewhat serious, but he moved in with her just before the baby was born. He is thrilled to be a Dad. It was love at first sight, and every time he looks at her it's like he's seeing his first Christmas tree.

Mom is already involved with CAS because of her 3 year old and an abusive ex. I don't know all of the details of why the 3 year old is in custody, but from what I understand the main concern is her decision making. Because of that involvement, CAS has a hold on the new baby situation. There is a signed agreement (for 6 months) with CAS that Mom will not be left alone with the baby. My son is the baby's primary caregiver, and can only leave Mom and baby with someone that's been approved by CAS. They also have to continue to be involved with Healthy Babies and parenting classes. Mom must also take relationship counselling, and continue with her mental health care. Another stipulation is to keep the house clean (this is an issue).

It seems that Mom's entire family is involved with CAS in some capacity. Therefore, new baby will have a list of people she's approved to be with (approved by CAS). It sounds like nobody from her family will be approved. My husband and I are in the process of being added to that list. Other members of our family will be added to form a support group.

Our involvement with CAS is to become caregivers for the baby. We want to know that if there is any situation that involves the baby being removed from the home, that she will be brought directly to us and not taken to a foster home. CAS is supportive of that.

My son loves kids. He never intended to have any, but he was very excited about the pending arrival of this one (clock ticking much?). I know he can be a good Dad, but I also know he would never be able to take care of a child on his own. He knows it too. He's always had issues with maturity and responsibility. He has always kept late hours, and he's impossible to wake up in the morning. He only works occasionally and has problems supporting himself. I would have more faith in him if he was in a good relationship with someone who could be a good Mom.

I waited to start this thread. The whole situation felt too emotional to tackle the details yet. But after 1 week, I have huge concerns, and feel like I'm going to need some help.

Mom knows how to take care of a newborn, but she doesn't seem to want to some of the time. She is very up and down with her mood (sadness), and of course she's very tired. He has been taking care of the baby through the night so Mom can get her rest.

Yesterday I was texting with her while I was shopping for a breast pump for her. By the time I got to their house, her mood had changed and she had told my son she was leaving. She didn't want "all of this". She feels like she hasn't connected with the baby and didn't really want to be living with him (they were only casually dating when she got pregnant). I explained to her that if she left she couldn't take the baby with her. She then played it down that she only felt she needed a break and wanted to go stay with her cousin for the night. What does CAS think of a mother who wants to leave her 6 day old baby for a night? I feel like she's like one of those people that sees a cute puppy and has to have it, and 2 weeks later you see them trying to get rid of it on kijiji because it's too much work to take care of it. My son has talked to her about seeing her doctor. Maybe post-partum issues? It's more than that.

We already know this situation is going to fall apart... much more quickly than we expected. My son thinks if it comes to that, he and the baby can come and live with us so we can help him take care of her. I've told him that is not going to happen. We only got him out of our home permanently 4 years ago (he's like a boomerang that way).

My husband and I have discussed the options extensively. We are preparing to care for the baby here by ourselves. That's what we want, but gosh, can we do it? By the time she starts school we'll both be retired. I'm looking at how to manage financially, and emotionally. That, and it appears all of the rules change with CAS involvement.

Holy heck, that was long. He knows I'm on these forums. I've already told him he shouldn't have "stuck his dick into stupid" (I forget whose line that is). You'll notice too that I already started a thread on paternity testing.

thanx for reading

paris

[stripes]

I can only speak from experience with a close family member who sounds exactly like your son in terms of his maturity level, behavior and choices (and who had a wife very similar to the mom you describe). In his case, two children were involved.

I think you are correct in expecting that the situation is going to fall apart rapidly, as the parents will not be able to care for the child, especially if the mother has already lost custody of her first child and your son is not stable enough to parent. You should be expecting (and you probably are expecting) that CAS will apprehend the child. It's excellent that you're already lined up to be the foster parents of first resort.

My advice would be twofold - first, keep lines of communication open with your son and the mom. No matter what you may think of their choices, be as supportive and warm as possible, so that they trust you. This will be important when/if they lose custody of the child.

Second, keep on top of CAS. It sounds like you are doing this already. Find out who the worker is that's assigned to mom and talk to that worker at least every week, if not more often, about how mom and the kid are doing. Don't talk negatively about the parents, just keep abreast of how they're handling life with the baby. Don't worry about pestering CAS. The red flags are out, and you want to be the first person the CAS worker thinks of when the baby needs to be taken from the parents' custody.

At the risk of sounding callous, if the parents are going to lose custody of the baby, better it should happen sooner rather than later. The older the child is, the more difficulty the child will have in making the transition to a new home. In the case of my family member, both of his children were apprehended quite young (under four years) and they are now both thriving in their adoptive homes.

I also think you are quite right in telling your son he cannot live with you and play dad. You need to be ruthless here and prioritize the needs of the baby, which do not include being raised by an immature and irresponsible adult. If you and your husband raise the baby, s/he can maintain a relationship with the father, your son, and can get to know him without being in his care. (It is also not unlikely, if your son really is similar to my family member, that your son may drift away over time and not have the staying power to be a presence in his child's life, no matter how infatuated he is with the baby right now).

Again, I'm sorry if I'm sounding harsh talking about how it would be a good thing if CAS apprehended the child and how dad sounds like a bad bet for day-to-day parenting of an infant. Things may work out very differently for your son. It's a very difficult position to be in, and it sounds like you are doing all the right things for the baby. Good luck!

[paris]

stripes, thank you so much for the positive comments. Not harsh at all, although I do expect some.

I know my son will want to come and see the child frequently. I also think that will taper off some, but I don't expect he'll ever be completely gone.

We have been very supportive of both of them. I don't know Mom very well. I only met her 3 days before the baby was born. She is a sweet girl who has absolutely no support from her family. I feel sorry for her.

As far as CAS, I have met the worker. She seems to be on their side, trying to help them, but being realistic for the future. She did surprise me though when she said she didn't feel a need for a paternity test. As far as they are concerned the baby is his. If anyone else wants to claim her they can ask for a test. Really? Do they just want some guys name on the birth certificate?

We all love this baby, and she looks just like my son, but there's a reason why this test needs to be done. The worker told us to go ahead and do the test, but not tell the mother. It's important that the mother trust us. I agree with that.

[Janibel]

My husband and I have discussed the options extensively. We are preparing to care for the baby here by ourselves. That's what we want, but gosh, can we do it? By the time she starts school we'll both be retired. I'm looking at how to manage financially, and emotionally. That, and it appears all of the rules change with CAS involvement.

paris

As new grand-parents it must be heart-breaking for you to even have to think in these terms ... yet as much as you love the little munchkin, the future has to be considered - the baby's and yours as well.

Sound like the young woman may be suffering from postpartum depression and lacks the skills needed to parent on her own. Your son probably did not intend on becoming a father and finds himself in this situation when he himself is not ready for it.

Please don't take this the wrong way Paris, but as much as you want to do the RIGHT thing for this baby - what you should do is the BEST thing for this child. That would be to consider adoption ...

Thinking of the child's best interest, a young couple who is praying for a child to love (they have very strict criteria for adoptive parents). As you say, you and your husband are approaching retirement - it would be difficult.

For now, you are doing what's best, in the long term consider adoption, it would be most sensible solution if possible.

[paris]

Janibel, he's looking into PPD, taking her to the doctor, but he said she was like that before pregnancy, just not as bad, although she was off meds since pregnant. I don't know her mental health situation, but possibly bi-polar.

Before the baby was born, just hearing info about Mom, somebody said she'd lose this baby to CAS and should adopt it out. My other son pointed out that I would never let that happen. Our kids know us well. We have 3 other grandchildren and see them or have them with us all the time. My concern isn't raising a new baby, it's the financial consequences. We both work part-time... semi-retired because we can be. We aren't ancient. We are 56 and 59. My WiiFit says I'm 42

[arabian]

I endorse adoption. I was adopted as an infant as were my siblings. I had a fantastic childhood and consider myself lucky to have been raised by such wonderful people. We were told we were adopted for as long as I can remember. No big surprise. We were simply told we were "picked out" and this made us feel very, very special. My young friends were envious in fact.

There are many wonderful couples who are desperate to adopt. These couples can give the child a wonderful home.

Admirable for you to offer to raise the child but I think that's letting the parents off the hook. What happens if/when another one comes along? You going to raise those ones as well?

I totally understand your perspective. I too have a son that doesn't seem to want to ever leave his mother's "teat" and it's very, very tiresome. If he were to get someone pregnant I would be facing the same issues you are.

I have a friend who opted to have her children very late in life. She is exhausted. Now her kids are teenagers and she cannot participate in many sports with them. Can you see yourself water skiing or camping 15 years from now? 15 yrs from now you would probably prefer to be reading a book or poking around in your garden. Or do you fancy 10 years of schlepping child around to lessons?

Please do at least look into the adoption process.

I'm 57 and I cannot for one moment comprehend diapers and 3 am feedings. Nope you should be planning for retirement. You will recall how expensive it is raising kids? Multiply that by 3 nowadays. 35 years ago there weren't cell phones and all the electronic gadetry that are sometimes MANDATORY at schools.

[paris]

We haven't completely ruled it out, just feels like a last resort.

My oldest step-daughter has a 12 and 10 year old. My other son has a 3 year old who is autistic. It's possible that they are an option, but they don't know the entire situation yet. There needs to be a family meeting.

I'm glad you had a good experience arabian. Baby mama was adopted too, along with all of her siblings. Although she mentioned her years with CAS, so I don't know her entire story. I should talk to her more about that.

[Janibel]

My concern isn't raising a new baby, it's the financial consequences. We both work part-time... semi-retired because we can be. We aren't ancient. We are 56 and 59. My WiiFit says I'm 42

Financials are one problem for sure - but Paris have you thought about all the joys of the teen-age years? Your husband and you will need the STAMINA of Hercules to deal with all the fun of raging hormones?

Dear God, if you can handle all that in 15 years or so ... not to mention your son will still be in the picture, and will be wanting to be "the fun parent" always undermining your style of parenting - will be a lot of stress IMO.

[Rioe]

It's sad to hear of this situation, but if having children won't make these parents grow up, nothing will. Sounds like the mother can barely take care of herself. Was your son feeling like some sort of rescuer, or taking advantage of her? If it's the former, maybe you can expect more parenting out of him, but if it's the latter, he needs some serious counselling. Hopefully the CAS parenting courses will help them.

Personally, I think that if your son wants you to raise his child instead of taking responsibility and doing it himself, he ought to do it legally. Sign whatever papers make YOU the legal guardians, and pay you CS according to his income. Get CS out of the mother as well. Make sure they are able to spend as much time with the child as possible to the best of their abilities, and then if one of them gets their act together, maybe things can change later. It sounds like you have a bit of a village in your family members, so rely on them too.

And force your son to get a vasectomy as a condition of taking this on for him. You don't need a repeat of this!

[paris]

Rioe, he's always been a rescuer and has good intentions. He has now idea we're even considering taking the baby. When he mentioned coming to live here with the baby, I said no way not ever ever.

I was worried about problems before the baby was even born, and looked into joint custody with him, or some variation of that. From reading I found that CAS involvement makes that difficult. Although the worker did point out to me that there is no court action with the baby. The parents signed the agreement willingly. But, they were told Mom couldn't go home with the baby unless the agreement was signed.

My family is a big village of support for everyone involved.

Vasectomy is a good idea. Given his age, I was surprised it didn't happen sooner... thought maybe he had no swimmers.

[paris]

I just wanted to post an update, now that things have calmed down some.

My son had a rough week dealing with baby's Mom, but he had an awesome week with the baby. Mom's mood swings were all over the place. Twice now she's tried to leave. We've talked her down both times. Yesterday and today she seems in better spirits. I still have zero confidence in her parenting skills. Most of the time she just seems too lazy to bother.

My son on the other hand has impressed us both. He has taken on feeding, diaper changing, clothing, making formula and bottle sterilizing. He does all of it without complaining.

I told him he needs to have a plan in place if Mom really does leave. I expect it will happen. He said "Why? Do you think I can't do it?". He said it's not easy, but much easier than he ever expected. He is more than willing to take care of her on his own. We still see each other every day, and he hasn't asked for any help.

The only problem I'm seeing at the moment is the state their house is in. I have to sit on my hands to not start cleaning. Neither one of them has any housekeeping skills, and there are several pets in the house. They share the house with my stepdaughter who isn't any better. I offered to do their laundry because they don't have any facilities. When I asked for it yesterday, Mom said "I don't know where all the baby's stuff might be. He's been dressing her." He then walked to a corner and picked up a basket where he's been putting only the baby's dirty clothes. And when I return it he puts it all in a dresser. I almost fainted. 1 small step.

I am hopeful.

[standing on the sidelines]

looks like your son is stepping up to the plate so far with fatherhood. Maybe this is what he needed to grow up a bit? Just in the early stages though so it may change, so be ready for that.

[paris]

I know it's a huge difference, but does speak for his character...

He's had his cat for 14 years. Loves that cat. He also got a dog last year that is one of the smartest dogs I know. He has spent hours training him.

I have a funny cat story of his. He was on his way to our house for Christmas. Stopped at Tim Horton's and went in for a coffee. Left the cat in the car. There was a long line up inside, and a couple minutes later he heard a mew, and he turned and watched the cat weave it's way through the line up and sit down beside him. The cat had leaned on the window button in the car a jumped out. lol

[standing on the sidelines]

I know it's a huge difference, but does speak for his character...

He's had his cat for 14 years. Loves that cat. He also got a dog last year that is one of the smartest dogs I know. He has spent hours training him.

I have a funny cat story of his. He was on his way to our house for Christmas. Stopped at Tim Horton's and went in for a coffee. Left the cat in the car. There was a long line up inside, and a couple minutes later he heard a mew, and he turned and watched the cat weave it's way through the line up and sit down beside him. The cat had leaned on the window button in the car a jumped out. lol

lol that is so funny

[paris]

I just wanted to update a bit. Things are about the same. My son is still doing a great job with the baby. They are looking for a bigger place to live, but I still have concerns about her staying in the long run. We still see them most days.

I've met with their worker at CAS. She said they have no concerns with this baby and she thinks my son is doing an excellent job. She also said that their involvement is more to deflect vindictive allegations that might come up because of the people involved with the older child. I though this Mom and her ex were in court fighting for custody of the older child. It turns out that CAS is trying to make that child a ward of CAS and she will likely be adopted. The attempts at co-parenting were so bad they took the child away. I'm sure there's more to the story than that.

I want to believe this worker is trying to help. I want to trust her. I am worried.