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  • What activities are considered section 7 expenses

    Hi all,

    Again I have a Section 7/sports related question.

    My separation agreement is very particular in listing the sports that meet the current “status quo” as well as the budget that is set forth for these sports activities for the kids.

    My ex also was careful to put a line in that reads “____ will not agree to any further increase to the recreational budget”.

    There is another line that states we have to “mutually agree” if anyone wants to add another sport on. If we don’t agree we have to attend mediation.

    We are currently splitting 50/50 the sports costs. His payment is attached to his monthly support amount and represents half of the budget.

    For the last few years, my ex has registered the kids in recreational summer camps because he believes they should do them. He has informed me every year that he’d like me to also book a week on my time for them. He throws around the term “best interests” a lot when he tells me I should do this. I tell him no every year since I am home (summers off) and would rather not ship the kids away when my time already has limitations due to divorce situation. Instead, every summer, my husband and I take the kids on awesome trips and we spend time at our pool or visiting friends/family, which we feel is our prerogative to choose. We just got back from an awesome road trip. During these vacations we partake in many sporty activities together.

    During the year, the kids are involved in a wide variety of sports during every season. This includes organized sports teams as well as driving them to practices and tournaments for all the school teams they make. One could never make the case that they are sports deprived.

    The last few summers, the ex registered the kids in the summer camps anyway (on his parenting time) but is ADAMANT that I pay for them, or split it proportionate to income. I have said no way since it’s not a mutual decision - it’s a choice on his parenting time. He’s been footing the bill for this on his own.

    This is absolutely his hill he is going to die on. He is taking me back to court again (less than two years after the amending agreement was signed) and this is a repeated point in his affidavits...among other things...like increasing his access time.

    My lawyer said he can claim a summer camp is section 7 all he wants, but then that would open the door to me sending him a bill for all the sports decisions I make on my time (such as ski lift tickets and rentals, surfing lessons, etc). Which is ridiculous because those are decisions I decided to pay for on my own time - and they weren’t cheap either. In my view, we each make our own choices as to how to book up our time and spend our money on the kids - other than the agreed upon activities and budget.


    Sorry if this is long-winded. Just wondering what others think. From my little bit of research so far, recreational summer camps are not usually considered Section 7.

    Thoughts welcome....


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  • #2
    How old are the kids? Does your ex get summers off too or does he work full time?

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    • #3
      Kids are 13 and 11.

      Ex takes a few weeks in summer, but besides this the schedule is completely designed so that he is off when the kids come to him (he’s a shift worker).





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      • #4
        I think he is hesitant to use the “summer camp is a necessity” argument because he is trying to increase access time and it would maybe hurt him if he has to use summer camp for “daycare” because he’s working, when mother of kids is home, and the status quo of ten years is such that I stay home with them all summer. I don’t know...just speculating on that...



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        • #5
          No matter what we say or what the court says your ex is going to fight this. Hes an idiot.

          I wonder if you can respond that since his activities fall outside of the agreement and specifically the term he insisted on then you will be seeking that all activities be considered the same and expect his proportionate share in the amount of $xxxx. Plus you will also be seeking the expected child support amount that you agreed to lower the last time in order to accommodate his wishes.

          Your ex is a piece of work. He needs to be punched in the face.

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          • #6
            My husband said the exact same thing as you to a tee Rockscan. We should ask for our "outside the agreement" expenses be paid in part by him....as well as increase the child support that I agreed to lower (to the tune of a $7000 annual savings for him) last time.
            I don't actually want to do that though. I am just hoping his lawyer will advise him that this is bullshit...or that a judge will see him as adversarial and nickle-and-diming.

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            • #7
              So he said this himself? He hasn’t actually gotten a lawyer or sent that yet?

              Your ex really needs someone to give him a clue because he clearly thinks hes allowed to walk all over everyone.

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              • #8
                He sent an email to me demanding payment and informing me of their registration in camp. I have previously written him 10 response emails over the years where I state my opinion on this and tell him I’m not in agreement with this being a cost I should incur.
                He does have a lawyer but she is brand new to the case (he’s on lawyer #3) and likely doesn’t know the full scope yet.
                He has initiated litigation. His affidavits stated that I am in breach of the agreement because I am refusing to pay for the Section 7 expense of summer camp.


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                • #9
                  So I am assuming you are primary caregiver then and this is not a week on/week off schedule? How does he sign them up for summer camps for his time only? Most camps you can only sign kids up for a week at a time...

                  On another note, you mention he is taking you back to court for this and increased access, but also say that your separation agreement states that you must attend mediation first if you cannot agree on s7’s. Have you been to mediation over this yet? Have you sent a request to your ex to go to mediation? My thoughts are that a judge would throw the s7 claim out and tell both of you to get your butts into mediation if there is a disagreement.
                  As for the request in increased access time- unless your separation agreement has a clause that states access can be reviewed after a certain date, your ex is going to have to prove material change in circumstances. What is the change he is claiming that would warrant a change in access? Why are you opposed to him having more access?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
                    His affidavits stated that I am in breach of the agreement because I am refusing to pay for the Section 7 expense of summer camp.
                    Wait.... is summer camp listed as an s7 in your original agreement then? Or is he just assuming that it should be part of it?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Selfrepmom View Post
                      So I am assuming you are primary caregiver then and this is not a week on/week off schedule? How does he sign them up for summer camps for his time only? Most camps you can only sign kids up for a week at a time...



                      On another note, you mention he is taking you back to court for this and increased access, but also say that your separation agreement states that you must attend mediation first if you cannot agree on s7’s. Have you been to mediation over this yet? Have you sent a request to your ex to go to mediation? My thoughts are that a judge would throw the s7 claim out and tell both of you to get your butts into mediation if there is a disagreement.

                      As for the request in increased access time- unless your separation agreement has a clause that states access can be reviewed after a certain date, your ex is going to have to prove material change in circumstances. What is the change he is claiming that would warrant a change in access? Why are you opposed to him having more access?


                      Yes I am primary caregiver.
                      Correct, the schedule is not 50/50 and it’s a little wonky to suit his days off. He has two full seven day stretches during the summer (plus other time) and uses one of them for summer camp. In my opinion, a guy who is taking me to court for increased access time should maybe worry about spending his seven days WITH his kids instead of putting them in camp. But of course he’s entitled to do what he wants.

                      We are already scheduled for mediation. His side agreed to put a “hold” on the case conference until mediation occurs. It is set for this fall. He wants to mediate the sports issue as well as increased access.

                      There is zero material change. Same house, same partner, same job hours, schedule, salary. Kids are happy, healthy. We just made an amending agreement in January 2018. I think he wants to pay even less than he’s paying. Getting 40% time = offset support. It’s all about money with him. I have many previous posts outlining my story. I am opposed because we have a status quo of ten years that works, among many other reasons. He says “their age” warrants the change in access time.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Selfrepmom View Post
                        Wait.... is summer camp listed as an s7 in your original agreement then? Or is he just assuming that it should be part of it?


                        Absolutely not. Original agreement says only daycare is Section 7. New agreement says nothing about summer camps either and is super specific about the sports allowed into the set budget. Original agreement also says we have to agree on section 7 before someone registers the kids or demands payment. Therefore, I am not breaching anything.

                        This is the second time he has done this as well. He registered my son for a sport last fall that conflicted with his other sport (I was in huge disagreement with it) and then withheld daycare money to “force” me to pay my half of the sport I didn’t agree with. Even his kid didn’t want to be doing it. I have still not recouped that money but gave up trying.



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                        • #13
                          Selfrepmom, you may want to go back and read Anges original posts on her case. Her ex is one of those “im not paying” types who then comes back and demands payment for expenses that are not legit and/or didn’t get permission for. He also pays less than table and bitches about it.

                          He is ridiculous to be banging his drum on this especially so soon after the last agreement.

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                          • #14
                            My last settlement conference judge stated summer camp due to a parent working is Section 7... now I doubt I would be putting my 11 and 13 yro in camp all summer, as they are old enough to stay home at that point. If they wanted to do some “fun” camps then fine but that is not daycare.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
                              My lawyer said he can claim a summer camp is section 7 all he wants, but then that would open the door to me sending him a bill for all the sports decisions I make on my time (such as ski lift tickets and rentals, surfing lessons, etc). Which is ridiculous because those are decisions I decided to pay for on my own time - and they weren’t cheap either. In my view, we each make our own choices as to how to book up our time and spend our money on the kids - other than the agreed upon activities and budget.

                              Whether or not the summer camps are s7 would depend on whether your ex needs them for work. I see the kids are 13 and 11, but the ex may not want to leave them home alone while he works. If that is the case, I think he would have a strong argument that the camps are to enable him to work and therefore are s7. If they are not to enable him to work, then they are not s7.


                              If your family is going skiing one weekend in the winter or taking surf lessons while you are on a trip in California, those are not, and would never be considered, section 7 expenses.

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