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  • #31
    Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
    overnight attachment to dad is VERY important i think. The fact that you're able to put him to sleep without issue is amazing. What does she object to in your night routine? and how old was the baby when you guys separated? did you do overnight wakeups, etc when you were together?


    my point- to Janus mostly- is that it's probably not the best idea to start with the argument that they're old enough to stop breastfeeding. I think you're being really reasonable. And I agree with Hammerdad that breastfeeding shouldn't be a deterrent to overnights with you.


    As to the nutritional need? It actually starts lessening at about 6 months..after that- in general, babies aren't usually getting enough iron from breastmilk alone. But there is a whole host of other reasons to keep doing it- including nutrition. It's just such a red herring argument though- which is my point. Going down the path to fight that the baby needs to stop breastfeeding is only going to incite rage from mom.
    Thank you for that kind comment , we were separated before birth . Won't get into how much it took to get here but I stuck with it . Patients persistence with my son even during the short period of time in the early stages . I've never been offered overnight time with my son in any fashion . I pay attention to his cues though and with patients a child can be soothed with father and I am capable of that . You have to adapt to his needs so that he doesn't get into that "fussy stage" if he does don't force it stop and provide light stimulation . Bathing helps a great deal with this as well but can be done without it but takes more patients and mild stimulation .

    She argue me putting him to bed at 8 sat Mon Tue and Thurs impacted her routine of putting him to bed at 9 when I return home for 8:30. It was so hard but I decide to stop because I didn't want to seem like I was being unreasonable by impacting her routine wether true or not . She will not allow me to bath him anymore .

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
      Here is the case law from the Honourable Mr. Justice Quinn!



      http://canlii.ca/t/1hl8s
      Thank you , I am aware of this case law be mindful that it is distinguishable . The child at the time of the order was 3 .

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
        my point- to Janus mostly- is that it's probably not the best idea to start with the argument that they're old enough to stop breastfeeding.
        Family law is littered with the corpses of fathers who tried to be nice to a gatekeeping mother. It does not work. Not only does it not work with the mothers, it does not even work with the judges. They routinely rule against fathers who acquiesced to a mother's demands.

        A mother who is denying parenting time because she is breastfeeding a kid who is over a year old is a major threat to the father. He needs to propose a specific schedule that leads to 50/50 sharing. Anything vague and he will never get custody.

        The mother agrees to 50/50 in the future, or she needs to be fought in court. This mother is refusing to provide pumped breast milk. We are not idiots, she obviously does not care about the kid at all, this is just a tactic.

        Obviously the legal argument is something along the lines of "it is in the best interests of the child to have a shared custody arrangement, and here is my proposed schedule that implements it fully by the time the kid is 2. If the mother feels that breast milk is important, I am more than willing to feed the kid Mom's expressed milk. In the alternative, I am willing to consider a schedule proposed by the mother that leads to shared 50% custody".

        Tactically, I would chuck the breast milk and feed the kid formula so he gets used to other stuff. Or, y'know, solid food like most 14 month kids can easily handle. Mom can't prove that you aren't using her milk. (Actually, the solid thing is a little trickier, it changes the poop. Maybe don't feed the solid stuff yet.) Formula and cow milk for the win. Breast milk is not some magical elixir of awesomeness. For the first few months, it provides lots of value, after that it's just convenient and cheap.

        The science behind breast milk vs. other food after 6 months is ridiculously weak. No amount of propaganda can affect that sadly.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Janus View Post
          Family law is littered with the corpses of fathers who tried to be nice to a gatekeeping mother. It does not work. Not only does it not work with the mothers, it does not even work with the judges. They routinely rule against fathers who acquiesced to a mother's demands.

          A mother who is denying parenting time because she is breastfeeding a kid who is over a year old is a major threat to the father. He needs to propose a specific schedule that leads to 50/50 sharing. Anything vague and he will never get custody.

          The mother agrees to 50/50 in the future, or she needs to be fought in court. This mother is refusing to provide pumped breast milk. We are not idiots, she obviously does not care about the kid at all, this is just a tactic.

          Obviously the legal argument is something along the lines of "it is in the best interests of the child to have a shared custody arrangement, and here is my proposed schedule that implements it fully by the time the kid is 2. If the mother feels that breast milk is important, I am more than willing to feed the kid Mom's expressed milk. In the alternative, I am willing to consider a schedule proposed by the mother that leads to shared 50% custody".

          Tactically, I would chuck the breast milk and feed the kid formula so he gets used to other stuff. Or, y'know, solid food like most 14 month kids can easily handle. Mom can't prove that you aren't using her milk. (Actually, the solid thing is a little trickier, it changes the poop. Maybe don't feed the solid stuff yet.) Formula and cow milk for the win. Breast milk is not some magical elixir of awesomeness. For the first few months, it provides lots of value, after that it's just convenient and cheap.

          The science behind breast milk vs. other food after 6 months is ridiculously weak. No amount of propaganda can affect that sadly.
          I disagree , if you read the case law the parent who makes every effort to accomodate for the child in the early years and is fraught with road blocks will be the one who's more likely to be seen as rational , reliable and credible .

          I appreciate your passion for this topic but it is not benefitial .

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JimmyJames View Post
            Thank you , I am aware of this case law be mindful that it is distinguishable . The child at the time of the order was 3 .
            Then propose a schedule that leads to 50/50 time at 2.5 or 3. It does not really matter how long in the future it is. The idea is that it has to be specific. As in... days and hours specific.

            Until January 1st, 2019: with father MW 5:30-8:30
            Until April 1st, 2019: with father MWF 5:30-8:30, every second Saturday starting on April 6th from 9:00 to 7:30
            Until August 1, 2019: with father MT 4:00 - 8:00. Every second Saturday 9:00am to Sunday AM starting August 3rd
            Until November 1st, 2019: etc. etc. etc.

            Let her counter with her own schedule. If it doesn't end with 50/50, take the same schedule, and modify it so it ends with 50/50. Keep the focus on the endgame, and why she does not want 50/50 at the end. Keep the focus off the now. Now she has breastfeeding, a powerful weapon. Later she does not.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              Then propose a schedule that leads to 50/50 time at 2.5 or 3. It does not really matter how long in the future it is. The idea is that it has to be specific. As in... days and hours specific.

              Until January 1st, 2019: with father MW 5:30-8:30
              Until April 1st, 2019: with father MWF 5:30-8:30, every second Saturday starting on April 6th from 9:00 to 7:30
              Until August 1, 2019: with father MT 4:00 - 8:00. Every second Saturday 9:00am to Sunday AM starting August 3rd
              Until November 1st, 2019: etc. etc. etc.

              Let her counter with her own schedule. If it doesn't end with 50/50, take the same schedule, and modify it so it ends with 50/50. Keep the focus on the endgame, and why she does not want 50/50 at the end. Keep the focus off the now. Now she has breastfeeding, a powerful weapon. Later she does not.
              Sound advise and I thank you for pointing that strategy out , definitely the long game . Don't get me wrong , I understand where the outrage comes from . Children deserve both parents without limits provided the steps involved are sound and meaningful .

              The legal system at this stage is tough to navigate and a hotly debated topic for good reason .

              Comment


              • #37
                I'm not sure which cases you're referring to, but I just read a few on canlii where younger children were granted overnight. Some over the course of 4 months, some 2, etc. Some with pumped milk and formula, and others where mom met up for 1 hour to feed inbetween the overnights... You can find cases for anything, it was discussed here before when a 4 month old got overnights (https://ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15638), but in the end it all comes down to what you want.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
                  I'm not sure which cases you're referring to, but I just read a few on canlii where younger children were granted overnight. Some over the course of 4 months, some 2, etc. Some with pumped milk and formula, and others where mom met up for 1 hour to feed inbetween the overnights... You can find cases for anything, it was discussed here before when a 4 month old got overnights (https://ottawadivorce.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15638), but in the end it all comes down to what you want.
                  Thank you for your response , in regards to the case you provided ;

                  https://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skca/do...&resultIndex=1


                  This was appealed and stay was lifted motion was reversed to daytime access .

                  I'm not familiar with any of the other case law you've found , I have been searching extensively .

                  I did find this moments ago though it's from Alberta ;

                  https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/do...&resultIndex=6

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Add breastfeeding to your search on canlii, there are quite a few cases of kids under 1.5 and with overnights.
                    She was 9 months in the case you quoted.

                    If your lawyer is telling you to wait, unless for reasons we don't know about, I would get a new lawyer who will fight for you. I couldn't imagine being able to watch my child walk around the block while talking with me, but not be able to have him stay passed the street lights.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Family court is slow... moves like a snail. By the time this gets to the conference stage the kid will be in kindergarten no?

                      Keep this in mind while you consider further litigation (which is costly). I'd recommend continued patient, but firm, requests. With that said, do keep concise written communication and records of your requests.

                      I agree it's a shame that, after separation and immaturity that often goes along with it, parents can't agree on these things. Parenting agreement should be discussed. Some people hire professionals to help in this.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
                        Add breastfeeding to your search on canlii, there are quite a few cases of kids under 1.5 and with overnights.
                        She was 9 months in the case you quoted.

                        If your lawyer is telling you to wait, unless for reasons we don't know about, I would get a new lawyer who will fight for you. I couldn't imagine being able to watch my child walk around the block while talking with me, but not be able to have him stay passed the street lights.
                        Lawyer is not telling me to wait , I'm cautiously optimistic and doing my homework .

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          Family court is slow... moves like a snail. By the time this gets to the conference stage the kid will be in kindergarten no?

                          Keep this in mind while you consider further litigation (which is costly). I'd recommend continued patient, but firm, requests. With that said, do keep concise written communication and records of your requests.

                          I agree it's a shame that, after separation and immaturity that often goes along with it, parents can't agree on these things. Parenting agreement should be discussed. Some people hire professionals to help in this.
                          Thanks , already been down that road since birth . Started with hardly anything , was patient and now have access four days a week daytime through counsel .

                          Case conference already happened , now open for motions and settlemt conference should I chose either route .

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Good for you (increased access). All the best to you.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Good for you (increased access). All the best to you.
                              Thank you , and also thank you to everyone who chimed in .

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                My takeaway from this is to keep the pressure and focus on the down the road plan and not right now (even though mother refuses to mediate ) you've opened my eyes to the fact that I can still seek out that professional and still do so on my own to come up with a professional concrete plan that can be very useful .

                                Thank you everyone for this insight .

                                Comment

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