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  • Undue hardship

    Hi,

    My husband and I are in a position that we need to apply for undue hardship. I am hearing that this usually is never approved. My husband and I pass the first part of the test, for multiple reasons, access expense, other children to support, etc. We had a lawyer run the numbers already, and since then things have become even harder financially. It has nothing to do with not wanting to pay cs, it has to do with we just can't make ends meet anymore.

    We are hoping to represent ourselves because we cannot afford a lawyer. We just went through a custody battle ($11,000 later). Is there any advice out there? We know it isn't a good idea to not use a lawyer, but on top of everything else, we have lost faith in the "help" we received and the system.

    The other issue is his ex lies and says her bf does not live with her, but he is on the answering machine, his son has told us that he lives there, she tells everybody else he lives with her. How do you go about proving this? Send the bf a registered letter to their apartment? She denies him living there for tax reasons/welfare, etc. We still qualify for undue hardship without including her bf's income, but have been told it would be better to have his income included and that legally she has to.

    Thanks for any help.

  • #2
    Ok let me figure this out...your husband had more kids with you, but doesnt feel up to paying for his other kid by another baby mommy?

    Comment


    • #3
      Her boyfriend is in no way responsible for taking care of your husbands kid-you do realise this?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
        Hi,

        My husband and I are in a position that we need to apply for undue hardship. I am hearing that this usually is never approved. My husband and I pass the first part of the test, for multiple reasons, access expense, other children to support, etc. We had a lawyer run the numbers already, and since then things have become even harder financially. It has nothing to do with not wanting to pay cs, it has to do with we just can't make ends meet anymore.

        We are hoping to represent ourselves because we cannot afford a lawyer. We just went through a custody battle ($11,000 later). Is there any advice out there? We know it isn't a good idea to not use a lawyer, but on top of everything else, we have lost faith in the "help" we received and the system.

        The other issue is his ex lies and says her bf does not live with her, but he is on the answering machine, his son has told us that he lives there, she tells everybody else he lives with her. How do you go about proving this? Send the bf a registered letter to their apartment? She denies him living there for tax reasons/welfare, etc. We still qualify for undue hardship without including her bf's income, but have been told it would be better to have his income included and that legally she has to.

        Thanks for any help.
        1. You were able to pay $11,000 for a custody and access dispute. Costs were clearly not awarded in your favour regarding the action as you would not be here complaining about "costs".

        2. If you just got out of a custody and access issue why is child support not part of the order? Was the custody battle over your husband's children or your children?

        3. The only person who can determine if undue hardship is an issue is a judge. Not sure what "test" you passed. You would have to file a motion on a change in circumstance.

        4. With having gone to court recently to bring forward an undue hardship claim would be incredibly hard to justify as a "change in circumstance".

        5. You would be better off dealing with the financial challenges by retaining a financial consultant rather than trying to file undue hardship against the other parent. What you are describing sounds like the other parent is on social assistance? If so, they qualify for Legal Aid and if you bring forward a material change in circumstance they can get a lawyer to defend against the action you take.

        6. What is the combined income of you and your husband? You file undue hardship and both of your salaries will be considered as part of the "household income" as well as the other house hold. You already have an uphill battle proving the other parent has another partner supporting them.

        7. The outcome of the last appearance that cost you 11,000 doesn't sound like it went well and you had a lawyer. Why would you think your undue hardship claim would be even easier to file?

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          Quit using kids as a way to make money. Period. You've got to be kidding. There are many parents who would love to adopt kids who can afford them.

          Having kids isn't revenue. You have to get a job.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
            Her boyfriend is in no way responsible for taking care of your husbands kid-you do realise this?

            Hi, Yes, of course he is responsible for supporting his son BUT the story is complicated. Up until December 2011 my husband had shared custody and more than paid what he should have been paying, in consideration of the shared living arrangement. We are talking about a guy that had his son over 50% of the time and paid for all extras, no help from the mother, on top of his child support.

            Since then, we were posted, his son wanted to come, we lost. In the end, he now pays more child support, 100% of his son's gym membership, about $1,500 in travel expenses.

            We have five children combined, I have two from my first marriage. And we have two between us. What we pay in cs for his son, we absolutely could not afford to spend on each child, we would literally go in the hole.

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh Arabian having kids is a cash cow to some people!There is plenty of losers out there fighting for custody ONLY for the money-kids have NOTHING to do with it.
              Overheard a conversation a young lady was having with a friend where she was talking about how her lawyer finished off baby daddy number one in court.Now she's getting her CS and has sole custody and how she's working another custody battle for baby number two' with baby daddy number two for full custody and CS.
              According to her, its a walk in the park as he hit her and her lawyer will destroy him like the first....BUT all is good because ...she wants more kids! By herself with dads being just sperm donors.Oh for the record, not once did she ever mention baby daddys ever hitting their children or mistreating the kids in any way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                Hi, Yes, of course he is responsible for supporting his son BUT the story is complicated. Up until December 2011 my husband had shared custody and more than paid what he should have been paying, in consideration of the shared living arrangement. We are talking about a guy that had his son over 50% of the time and paid for all extras, no help from the mother, on top of his child support.

                Since then, we were posted, his son wanted to come, we lost. In the end, he now pays more child support, 100% of his son's gym membership, about $1,500 in travel expenses.

                We have five children combined, I have two from my first marriage. And we have two between us. What we pay in cs for his son, we absolutely could not afford to spend on each child, we would literally go in the hole.
                Why exactly did you have more kids?You knew how much support the father paid!You deliberately had two more expenses added to the equation -how do you expect a rational person to view this?Many people don't have kids at all because they cant afford it-you instead don't care about the economics but just keep popping them out!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                  Since then, we were posted, his son wanted to come, we lost. In the end, he now pays more child support, 100% of his son's gym membership, about $1,500 in travel expenses.
                  I think the gym membership might be considered an S7 expense, so I don't think you should be paying the 100%.


                  Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                  We have five children combined, I have two from my first marriage. And we have two between us. What we pay in cs for his son, we absolutely could not afford to spend on each child, we would literally go in the hole.
                  Maybe I misunderstood your other post on CS, but you receive more in CS payments for your two kids than you pay for your husband's one kid, so that would likely hurt rather than support the undue hardship angle.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    Quit using kids as a way to make money. Period. You've got to be kidding. There are many parents who would love to adopt kids who can afford them.

                    Having kids isn't revenue. You have to get a job.

                    arabian, I might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure you are the money grabber? Just the impression I get from reading your opinions.

                    And for the record, I have an ex husband and I don't nickel and dime him. I make my own money and am more than willing to accept responsibility for my children.

                    Not sure what the h e double hockey sticks you are talking about?? We don't make money, we are the ones paying it!! Maybe medication would help you.

                    I don't know about you, but I work full time, and so does my husband. His ex is 35 years old and has not held a job down for more than a year and two months. So please make sure you read a post properly before you try and insult somebody.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                      Why exactly did you have more kids?You knew how much support the father paid!You deliberately had two more expenses added to the equation -how do you expect a rational person to view this?Many people don't have kids at all because they cant afford it-you instead don't care about the economics but just keep popping them out!
                      You know, maybe in your glass house, up on top of the hill everything is perfect.

                      OUR SITUATION CHANGED AFTER WE HAD OUR TWO BABIES, it was out of our control. My god some of the people on this site are so ignorant.

                      Also, when you speak so crudely about me popping out my children, just remember, they are my babies you are talking about. They are human beings, show some respect. Go change all your cats litter.
                      Last edited by Unevenplayingground; 09-27-2012, 09:20 PM. Reason: Forgot to add part of my response.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by firhill View Post
                        I think the gym membership might be considered an S7 expense, so I don't think you should be paying the 100%.




                        Maybe I misunderstood your other post on CS, but you receive more in CS payments for your two kids than you pay for your husband's one kid, so that would likely hurt rather than support the undue hardship angle.

                        Hi,

                        No, I actually receive a lot less for my two kids. And I agree about the gym membership should be pro-rata.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          1. You were able to pay $11,000 for a custody and access dispute. Costs were clearly not awarded in your favour regarding the action as you would not be here complaining about "costs".

                          2. If you just got out of a custody and access issue why is child support not part of the order? Was the custody battle over your husband's children or your children?

                          3. The only person who can determine if undue hardship is an issue is a judge. Not sure what "test" you passed. You would have to file a motion on a change in circumstance.

                          4. With having gone to court recently to bring forward an undue hardship claim would be incredibly hard to justify as a "change in circumstance".

                          5. You would be better off dealing with the financial challenges by retaining a financial consultant rather than trying to file undue hardship against the other parent. What you are describing sounds like the other parent is on social assistance? If so, they qualify for Legal Aid and if you bring forward a material change in circumstance they can get a lawyer to defend against the action you take.

                          6. What is the combined income of you and your husband? You file undue hardship and both of your salaries will be considered as part of the "household income" as well as the other house hold. You already have an uphill battle proving the other parent has another partner supporting them.

                          7. The outcome of the last appearance that cost you 11,000 doesn't sound like it went well and you had a lawyer. Why would you think your undue hardship claim would be even easier to file?

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken
                          I was really hoping people would talk to me like they would if we were in person, i'm really sad at how rude people can be sitting behind a screen, anyway, this is the response to your questions.

                          1. Of course we didn't have the $11,000, but the bank did, and they like the interest it is collecting.

                          2. The cs was part of it, but at the time we did not qualify for undue hardship, our circumstances drastically changed. It was custody for his son.

                          3. Sorry, two part "step" Step 8: dealing with undue hardship - The Federal Child Support Guidelines: Step-by-Step

                          Basically, we qualify, but will it even matter is more what I am curious about.

                          4. Our idiot lawyer told us we had to do it this way. We have since let her go.

                          5. We don't need a financial consultant, our only debt is the legal fees. Our issues are, we have lost about $2,000 in our monthly income since this all happened. We have tried, you can't get blood from a stone. His ex did not legally qualify, she lied and said her bf did not live with her, but he did. She committed fraud with legal aid/social assistance/EI and issuance.

                          6. I'm not sure why you asked what my and my husband's income is?? You would actually need our income and their income, with our undue hardship details to even begin to be able to comment on this. We do have proof that her bf is living there at this time though.

                          7. We did have a lawyer, who unfortunately did more work for his ex. We tried to hire a new lawyer, I literally called every lawyer in that small town. There was a big court blitz going on, and nobody was taking on new cases until the blitz was over. It was absolutely crazy. Our lawyer was a wonderful person to talk to, but having to pay her for her so called "work" was horrible. This entire system is shameful. I see why bad things happen to children after this experience. And there is nothing we can do to help his son now.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                            Her boyfriend is in no way responsible for taking care of your husbands kid-you do realise this?

                            Oh and you are very wrong on this statement. You do realize that the minute his ex breaks up with her bf, she can go after cs from him, in ADDITION, to the support the child's father pays? Look it up. It isn't right but happens all the time.

                            And you obviously don't realize, but when it comes to undue hardship, ALL household income is considered, mine as well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A better way would be to look at your financial situation and see how you can cut back. A claim for hardship is extremely hard and all incomes will be taken into account, including the CS payments you are receiving... things would be a lot easier to comment on, if you posted approximate numbers.

                              I understand things change, but before your husband tries to shrink his responsibilities, you need to ensure you have done all you can to cut your expenses... do you have cable? Do you require cable? Do you have a home phone? Could you live with just a cell phone? Are you spending a lot on extras during the month? Have you actually sat down and wrote out a detailed budget?

                              I did this just 3 weeks ago and I was SHOCKED at what we were spending in a month. Go to Google and type in "You Need a Budget" a great program you can download to help you work out a detailed and accurate budget.

                              Please know, if you are looking for accurate advice, where people are not jumping to conclusions, you must provide accurate information, if you don't, you look like a new partner trying to reduce your husband's CS obligations to his first priority.

                              Comment

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