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SC's, Motions and Trial's.. Oh My!

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  • LF32 was led down a garden path..that Family Law Trial Judges supposedly "start from scratch"

    Family Law Trials ain't like Criminal Trials ...in Family Law Trials (because of conferences) it's more like....so where are we now....where's the REMAINING disagreements

    LF32 asked that interesting question....hopefully the answers above....Family Law Judges know what's going on.. they do not start from scratch

    Further to this is the Trial Opening Statement....it's now almost always written...it's each parties entire case..for the Judge to read (gobble up?...NO snore over)

    The check sheet Judges use (at TMC's) ...most ticky boxes are not even addressed as Judges toss parties out the door...but for LF32's question I think is box 7

    http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...CGhB3tatV1dI6g

    Opening Statements form the Trial Record....which is a simple thing to make.

    Do Trial Management Clerks give Trial Records (which include Motion Orders) to Trial Judges while breakfast is served....hmmmm

    A more detail explanation and example fromm David A Jarvis LLB

    http://www.beardwinter.com/wp-conten...d-A-Jarvis.pdf

    There's a lot of STUFF a Family Law Trial Judge sifts thru in chambers prior to entering the Courtroom.....and he/she is NOT working from SCRATCH...the exact opposite

    Comment


    • Agreed.

      There's a reason conference judges give their views on how the trial judge will rule. If you go back in my thread, the SC judge even said "The trial judge will rule in the same manner that the motion judge did".

      They have a tough job and respect fellow judges opinions and findings. Of course they want to hear the evolution from the eyes of other justices. I thought this to be obvious.
      Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-29-2015, 11:17 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post

        Family Law Trials ain't like Criminal Trials ...in Family Law Trials (because of conferences) it's more like....so where are we now....where's the REMAINING disagreements


        That is exactly what I was trying to say. That a judge will simply decide the following "remaining disagreements".

        Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post

        I think all that will happen is a judge will decide three things.
        1 - a bit more access time
        2 - reduce child support in consideration of his lower income.
        3 - sort out the holidays and send the child to kindergarten.

        Comment


        • UR getting it!.....the OP going into Trial with HE's A BAD GUY....already faces...BAD GUY? (from the Motion) already has 39.2385 custody for almost half a year...hmmmmm

          and you worked with him GOLDILOCKS......and did some bad stuff, like trying to steal 4 hours kiddy time from him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
            UR getting it!.....the OP going into Trial with HE's A BAD GUY....already faces...BAD GUY? (from the Motion) already has 39.2385 custody for almost half a year...hmmmmm

            and you worked with him GOLDILOCKS......and did some bad stuff, like trying to steal 4 hours kiddy time from him.



            I don't think so - what an outside observer (such as a judge) would see is this:

            Dad's parenting time with Kid begins at noon but Dad doesn't get off work until 4.00. Mom offered to keep Kid until 4.00. Dad suggested that in exchange for Mom keeping Kid, he could take Kid for another evening in the week. Mom said no to that suggestion. Both parents behaved reasonably and communicated clearly. No one is trying to "steal" anything here. That's pure hyperbole.

            Any observer will grasp immediately that Mom and Dad don't like each other. But that doesn't mean that every single thing that Mom or Dad does is absolutely evil. Mom and Dad both need to learn to distinguish between a disagreement and awful, despicable, horrible behavior. The difference is pretty clear to me.

            Comment


            • Ex is aware her behaviors required changing post motion.

              Communication has been good aside from a few hiccups and some main issues that necessitated the motion (i.e. education, qualified Dr's, holiday access, etc).

              The main problem now are all the unnecessary traps laid by OP, the maintenance of victim stance and her constant court positioning. If fellow posters are of the opinion that I am case-building and nothing more .. believe me, I'm sitting back, concentrating on D3 and simply documenting.

              Of course I'm also studying the FLR, CLRA and case law because I want to know my rights and I want to know them good.

              ODF? Great conversations yet some more sneaky and disgruntled than others. But a great place to gain insight, let out your thoughts (cathartic) and receive encouragement/constructive criticism. It's nice to make sense of the chaos by speaking with others who know about it.

              I find that the traps and .. as Rioe put it, "She's speaking out both sides of her mouth" moments are exhausting. Although the communication book was amicably written by both of us, I find the traps incresibly transparent.

              That coupled with the false allegations, being unreasonable (education, unqualified Dr's, access, etc) and denying mediation or anything that may attempt to avoid the "court process" may not bode well for her. Nor should it IMO.

              But persecution and punishment of my ex is not my goal. Exercising my right to be a parent, being reasonable and uncovering the truth about the allegations (Hey .. that's not persecution, or voodoo .. or anything else some posters may conjure up. That's clearing my damn name. lol) .. IS my goal

              So yes, I can see how Mr. T calls her a game player may have some truth to it. She's definitly got an okay gig and doesn't want to be found out.

              D3 told me she went to Canada's Wonderland than spent 3 night's at MIL's. Do I have an issue with that? Nope. Must be nice is all I'm saying. I'm busting my ass trying to keep up with court costs, a school of over 900 students and avoiding landmines on pages of the communication book. She's having blast at an amusement park and her cottage in QC. Oh well.

              Time to move on for everybody. I'm in high hopes that she sees that soon. Doesn't look that way though.
              Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-30-2015, 01:04 AM. Reason: spell

              Comment


              • Originally posted by stripes View Post
                [/B]Mom and Dad both need to learn to distinguish between a disagreement and awful, despicable, horrible behavior. The difference is pretty clear to me.
                1. Coming home to no family after kissing goodbye in the morning ranks up there I'd say.

                2. Painting me as an abusive, controlling addict may qualify too.

                3. Insinuations of sexual abuse takes the cake. (Ex capitalized by saying things like "I found it odd that D3 had a period that she wanted to take showers" .. and other BS statements as such in the OCL report).

                4. Surreptitiously recording relationship for 9 months...that came of nothing but a scolding from judge. Especially the fact that they were deemed edited, tampered with.

                5. Denying access: Many judges believe it's tantamount to child abuse. I agree 100% unless danger is verified.


                I get that it's an emotional time for everybody but I'd like to think that the above 5 points are despicable enough to chat about here, try to decipher and figure out. Their good topics and relevant to the forums.

                Disagreements have been civil and well-worded .. yet not resolved. She still wants the "Im uncomfortable thing" or whatever. I come here to get some assistance on how to respond and discuss the nature of these disagreements, but I for one feel like I can differentiate them from the more gruesome points above.

                My focus here is being the best parent I can be. D3 has always come first for me and our relationship is simply amazing.

                The other details (above) I don't really need to discuss. The judges are judges for a reason .. they figure this stuff out pretty quick .. as I've already experienced.

                Comment


                • I remember being denied access for D3's b day. If ex had her way I would be denied it tomorrow too.

                  Can't wait...Cinderella is coming, hoards of ppl, pinata, and one excited little girl.

                  Thanks to everybody who hasn't tried to shove my face in the dirt here on ODF. You've helped me through this. You've positively reinforced my right moves and kept the negatively away.

                  I appreciate this.
                  Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-30-2015, 08:50 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by OntarioDaddy View Post
                    Every situation is different, but it could have been a walk for him too.
                    I thought I was giving advice.
                    You were wallowing in the "would of, could of, should of" world forum posting. Your advice would have been great at the actual beginning of this process, but you either weren't yet involved in these threads, or couldn't be bothered to say anything.

                    How is telling him how he could have handled it differently going to help? For the next time that he is living with his ex and she steals their child again? Seriously.

                    He took a number of steps similar to yours, and got some very different outcomes than you did. Could it possibly be that the system is inconsistent? NOOOOO, right? lol

                    Comment


                    • Go to Court for OntarioDad is a Noun it's a place he/she showed up at and has no idea how he/she got there or what goes on there..... other than people filled out and corrected some sort of paperwork for him/her.

                      OntDad hasn't even sat across from his/her make believe Ex in a Courtroom

                      OntDad has never been up against a lawyer nor in a Trial

                      Maybe OntDad thinks a Judge is a clerk that rubber stamps only his/her paperwork.

                      Remember thread hijacker....you always have to reply to messages with more B.S....lmao

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                        Remember thread hijacker....you always have to reply to messages with more B.S....lmao
                        So glad I can't read them anymore. I'm a tad creeped out that he's dedicating so much time to my situation these past few days.

                        I hope I dont wake up and find a rabbit in a pot of boiling water. He knows by now that I can't see his messages .. which means his messages are no longer for me to read.

                        He dream't about my thread, woke up and had posts before 8:00am . .even before a cup of coffee. Should I be worried?

                        There are so many other threads to hijack on these forums. Go tell them how their ex's are great at what they do and how you're phenomenal at what you do ... and how they did nothing right in the process.

                        Ciao
                        Last edited by LovingFather32; 05-30-2015, 07:44 PM. Reason: spelling

                        Comment


                        • Don't worry Ontario daddy. It won't last long. I have been on his list twice.

                          He puts me on his ignore list and then logs out. When you are logged out, you can see/read all the posts made by everybody (even on the ignore list).

                          Then he logs in and make subtle comments and jabs that indicate he's read my posts and acknowledges my topics.

                          Later, when you make a comment that has really bothered him, he'll take you off ignore so he can address it. Same games over and over.

                          Comment


                          • D3's big day tomorrow. It's going to be a blast. Pinata' s, games, etc. Cinderella will be here doing magic tricks and a whole bunch of other fun stuff with the kids. Ordered a nice Disney Princess cake.

                            She's super excited .. kept asking me to read more books before bed time.

                            It's so nice to have her back.

                            When she wakes up I'm taking her out for a birthday breakfast.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                              Don't worry Ontario daddy. It won't last long. I have been on his list twice.

                              He puts me on his ignore list and then logs out. When you are logged out, you can see/read all the posts made by everybody (even on the ignore list).

                              Then he logs in and make subtle comments and jabs that indicate he's read my posts and acknowledges my topics.

                              Later, when you make a comment that has really bothered him, he'll take you off ignore so he can address it. Same games over and over.
                              Games? Subtle comments? Jabs?

                              Pot, meet kettle.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Straittohell View Post
                                Games? Subtle comments? Jabs?

                                Pot, meet kettle.
                                I am pretty sure LF's last post was to change the subject and focus on the happy day with his daughter, straighttohell.

                                Perhaps you could focus on that as well?

                                I truly hope the little girl had a wonderful day.

                                Comment

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