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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rioe View Post
    ?? Where did you get this 'known fact?'
    As many courts do, I subscribe to the theory that other things being equal, children ought to spend as much time as possible with parents of the same sex, once the parents separate.
    CanLII - 1995 CanLII 832 (BC SC)


    Research as well indicates that other factors being considered separately, children’s development and adjustment fares better when placed with the parent of the same sex.
    CanLII - 2004 NBQB 301 (CanLII)

    ______

    Disclaimer though: it isn't determinative but it is a factor to consider.
    This case sort of contradicts it (in a weird way)
    CanLII - 2013 QCCS 711 (CanLII)

    ________

    The important principle is children need a role model of the same sex.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by links17 View Post
      don't listen to these people. Hammerdad is an eow dad and he is happy about it.

      14 year olds can decide where they want to live. In quebec, the judge does what 14 year olds say.

      File a motion to change custody but don't oblige your kid to go back.

      If the police come to your door again unless they are there to enforce an order of the judge (i.e: The judge has ordered them to do x, y or z) or respond to a criminal complaint or suspicious behaviour ask them to leave immediately.

      If your ex files a motion, go to court - explain to the judge your son wants to live with you and why, he is happy, not in danger and you feel like it would have negative long term consequences to force him back and you have filed the paperwork to make it official. If the judge wants to force your kid back let them do it, make your kid hate the system more.... Don't be their tool.

      If your son has the ability/confidence have him come to court to. Let the judge tell him to his face.

      These strangers in black robes want to tell your kid to not live with you even though he wants to and you are a good dad? Why?

      Judges are former lawyers and lawyer are one of the most mistrusted professionals in the world. They are also all there to keep the family court system running as it provides 30% of the case load for these good for nothing losers.

      exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        After Links17 bails you out please keep us updated. Will be interesting to know where your kid ends up living.

        Fear mongering fool. Remember the child has feelings too!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Franklin View Post
          Fear mongering fool. Remember the child has feelings too!
          I like to think that we can have a healthy debate on this forum without resorting to calling each other names.

          I have expressed my opinion simply that parents need to parent and lead by example. I totally understand the frustration parents would be experiencing in situations where kids simply don't want to go spend time with the other parent. However, it is ultimately your decision as a parent to follow court Orders or not.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Franklin View Post
            Fear mongering fool. Remember the child has feelings too!
            so if the kid doesn't want to go to school then you should take their feelings into consideration and not make them? If the child hurts themselves in an accident and doesn't want to go to the doctor, you cannot force them due to them having feelings??

            I think you owe Arabian an apology for the name calling.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
              so if the kid doesn't want to go to school then you should take their feelings into consideration and not make them? If the child hurts themselves in an accident and doesn't want to go to the doctor, you cannot force them due to them having feelings??

              I think you owe Arabian an apology for the name calling.
              This ^^^

              Each one of us parent our kids. Part of being a parent, or parenting, is making them do stuff that the kids wouldn't otherwise do. We send them to school even if they don't want. Some take their kids to church even though the kids could care less. We take them grocery shopping when they'd rather being playing xBox. So lets be real, parent of what we already do is make the kids do things that are important for both them and us as parents.

              If your child says "i don't want to go to school", your answer isn't "ok, you don't have to". If it is, your a poor parent. You should say "you're going, and if there is a real reason why you don't want to go, lets work it out."

              If this situation was where the child didn't want to go to the access parents house, and that parent was the dad, people here would be saying the exact same thing I am saying. That until you change the court order, the kid has to go.

              You'd think people here had limits on rules/laws/court orders that once a certain age/height/weight/bra size a child (remember folks until 18 they are still children) get a say. They don't. You're the parent, it is on you to act like one.

              Comment


              • #37
                Everybody agrees school is important but we don't agree about the custody arrangement imposed by the judge thus we won't assist them enforce it. That is the difference.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                  Everybody agrees school is important but we don't agree about the custody arrangement imposed by the judge thus we won't assist them enforce it. That is the difference.
                  Do you pick and choose what laws you follow based on what you believe as well? Would you expect your neighbour to adhere to the rule of law when, if they didn't, it would impact you negatively?

                  The answer to this issue is that the boy has to go back and forth, as per the order, until someone is successful in changing the order. Then you follow the new terms.

                  We don't get to pick and choose the clauses in the order we adhere to unless it says we are empowered to do so.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I cannot stress enough how much I agree with HammerDad.

                    Some things that jump out at me:

                    1) Links, if HammerDad agreed to EoW, that doesn't make him less of a parent than you. Everyone has to make decisions that reflect their reality and put their kids first in their own way. I personally would never have settled for less than 50-50, but that's me. I'm not HammerDad, and neither are you. EoW is a schedule, not a shaming tool. You may have 39%, and therefore have more time with your kids, but HammerDad has a better history of cooperation and collaboration with his ex, which actually counts more in situations like this. Your extra time that you have with your kids over and above HammerDad's time is poor compensation for the fact that his kids don't exist in a virtual demilitarized zone, and yours clearly do. Better check your glass house for cracks before you throw any more stones.

                    2) Harold, disagreeing with a law or order doesn't make it okay to ignore it. Work to change it, and play ball until you do.

                    3) Harold, you say that the agreement and dispute is between your ex and yourself, and that you shouldn't be involving your child because it has nothing to do with him; that is one of the most deeply flawed things I have ever read. It has EVERYTHING to do with your child, especially considering that the agreement is about access to the child in question. Your child has made himself involved at that level by trying to get you to not follow it. Not okay.

                    4) You absolutely have to be the parent on this one and send him back. Your ex was an idiot for involving the police, but she probably felt that she had no alternative because you decided to be an idiot and try to circumvent a court order.

                    You say you came on here looking for advice, but what you really wanted was for people to hear your side of the story, and sympathetically cluck about you making the right call. Well, guess what, most of the posters with common sense didn't agree with you, and gave you some pretty measured advice about how to manage the situation. You can either ignore that advice and keep digging yourself into a hole, or actually check your ego at the door and listen to the more level-headed folks that are trying to help you instead of egging you on.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Straittohell View Post
                      I cannot stress enough how much I agree with HammerDad.

                      Some things that jump out at me:

                      1) Links, if HammerDad agreed to EoW, that doesn't make him less of a parent than you. Everyone has to make decisions that reflect their reality and put their kids first in their own way. I personally would never have settled for less than 50-50, but that's me. I'm not HammerDad, and neither are you. EoW is a schedule, not a shaming tool. You may have 39%, and therefore have more time with your kids, but HammerDad has a better history of cooperation and collaboration with his ex, which actually counts more in situations like this. Your extra time that you have with your kids over and above HammerDad's time is poor compensation for the fact that his kids don't exist in a virtual demilitarized zone, and yours clearly do. Better check your glass house for cracks before you throw any more stones.
                      1. Actually, he is less of a parent than me. To the point that 95% of time when custodial parents want to move for any non illegitimate reason to anywhere across the world the motion is granted. Read the case law and you will see what the courts thing of EoW parents EVEN ones that are really involved in their kids lvioes.

                      2. Rolling over and giving up because of legal fees, or because you want "avoid conflict" is a coward's way and your children will be worse off for it. If the courts want to take my kids away from me, they can do it but I will never sign an agreement allowing them to give me anything less than about half the time to raise my kids.

                      3. My kids have 0 psych issues, top of their class, happy, have great social lives so they are doing find despite living a DMZ so honestly shut up about things you don't know.

                      I never let my conflict with my ex-wife and the family law system leak over to my kids. I insulate them completely from it as much as I can.



                      2) Harold, disagreeing with a law or order doesn't make it okay to ignore it. Work to change it, and play ball until you do.
                      I agree Harold. You are not required by law to send your child to the mother by any means necessary. Until there is an order obliging you to do so then you say it is time to go this mom's. When he refuses out of respect for his age and independence you've taken reasonable means to follow the order.


                      3) Harold, you say that the agreement and dispute is between your ex and yourself, and that you shouldn't be involving your child because it has nothing to do with him; that is one of the most deeply flawed things I have ever read. It has EVERYTHING to do with your child, especially considering that the agreement is about access to the child in question. Your child has made himself involved at that level by trying to get you to not follow it. Not okay.
                      The child doesn't want to live with crazy mother, that's it. Why should he be forced to live with a shitty parent?


                      4) You absolutely have to be the parent on this one and send him back. Your ex was an idiot for involving the police, but she probably felt that she had no alternative because you decided to be an idiot and try to circumvent a court order.
                      Is your son doing anything bad for his health, psychologically or mentally? If not you are parenting. If you son is at your home out of rebellion or some stupid reason sendin him back.

                      You say you came on here looking for advice, but what you really wanted was for people to hear your side of the story, and sympathetically cluck about you making the right call. Well, guess what, most of the posters with common sense didn't agree with you, and gave you some pretty measured advice about how to manage the situation. You can either ignore that advice and keep digging yourself into a hole, or actually check your ego at the door and listen to the more level-headed folks that are trying to help you instead of egging you on.
                      Right, EOW dads and people who think the family law system is inherently right... listen to them. Despite my war with the courts my SS ends in 3 months perhaps, and I will have shared custody. Besides that I have APPEALED SELF-REPRESENTED and gotten appellate courts to agree with me against what the judge in my divorce ruled, somehow I was able as a laymen to prove a judge broke the law.

                      Roll over and die and they will gladly collect the spoils
                      Last edited by Links17; 05-25-2015, 04:59 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                        Do you pick and choose what laws you follow based on what you believe as well? Would you expect your neighbour to adhere to the rule of law when, if they didn't, it would impact you negatively?

                        The answer to this issue is that the boy has to go back and forth, as per the order, until someone is successful in changing the order. Then you follow the new terms.

                        We don't get to pick and choose the clauses in the order we adhere to unless it says we are empowered to do so.
                        I make a special exception for family law stuff because I think it is broken, corrupt and bias. However, in other cases yes I think unless there are exceptional circumstances everybody should follow the laws as its what makes a civil society.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                          I make a special exception for family law stuff because I think it is broken, corrupt and bias. However, in other cases yes I think unless there are exceptional circumstances everybody should follow the laws as its what makes a civil society.
                          So if your neighbour felt their municipality was "broken, corrupt and bias" and decided the by-laws on noise or garbage didn't apply to them, I guess they'd be free to blast their music at 3am while you have your kids and toss their trash on your lawn.

                          It may be a slippery slope, but isn't one that I'd like to encourage.

                          As for being a better parent than me, I'm not going to get into it with. You see, I've read your case. You can find many things on Canlii if you have the right search criteria. You, your ex and your parents are real pieces of work and appear to love to waste money that could be better spent on living your lives. You all deserve each other. Your kids, not so much.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Life throws many things at us and we have to carry on and simply do the best we can do.

                            We are blessed to have children. Our job is to nurture and guide them and prepare them for the world where they hopefully will have good lives and contribute positively to society as a whole.

                            We have to resist the temptation of transferring our personal anxieties/dislikes of things on to our children and instead help our children make fully informed decisions. If we can accomplish that then we have done a good thing.

                            Personal values will of course differ from one family to another.

                            Hopefully the young man in this situation will have the skill set to someday make wise decisions. Even though his parents are not together they probably both love him very much. For now he is still a child and I sometimes think we expect these young people to make decisions that they are not fully equipped to make. Everyone is in a big hurry for their kids to grow up. Enjoy them while they are young and take the time to instil good values and set a good example.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                              1. Actually, he is less of a parent than me. To the point that 95% of time when custodial parents want to move for any non illegitimate reason to anywhere across the world the motion is granted. Read the case law and you will see what the courts thing of EoW parents EVEN ones that are really involved in their kids lvioes.

                              2. Rolling over and giving up because of legal fees, or because you want "avoid conflict" is a coward's way and your children will be worse off for it. If the courts want to take my kids away from me, they can do it but I will never sign an agreement allowing them to give me anything less than about half the time to raise my kids.

                              3. My kids have 0 psych issues, top of their class, happy, have great social lives so they are doing find despite living a DMZ so honestly shut up about things you don't know.

                              I never let my conflict with my ex-wife and the family law system leak over to my kids. I insulate them completely from it as much as I can.



                              I agree Harold. You are not required by law to send your child to the mother by any means necessary. Until there is an order obliging you to do so then you say it is time to go this mom's. When he refuses out of respect for his age and independence you've taken reasonable means to follow the order.


                              The child doesn't want to live with crazy mother, that's it. Why should he be forced to live with a shitty parent?


                              Is your son doing anything bad for his health, psychologically or mentally? If not you are parenting. If you son is at your home out of rebellion or some stupid reason sendin him back.

                              Right, EOW dads and people who think the family law system is inherently right... listen to them. Despite my war with the courts my SS ends in 3 months perhaps, and I will have shared custody. Besides that I have APPEALED SELF-REPRESENTED and gotten appellate courts to agree with me against what the judge in my divorce ruled, somehow I was able as a laymen to prove a judge broke the law.

                              Roll over and die and they will gladly collect the spoils
                              Links, I can find all kinds of case law where EoW is sufficient to stop a move, but that's not the point. HammerDad probably doesn't have to worry about his ex pulling a crazy and moving across the country because he actually has a decent working relationship with her. He probably sees them a lot more than what he has on paper, and has simply went with the option that balances out the needs of his entire, collective family unit.

                              I don't care how good your kids are doing in school, you still don't have a right to dump on HammerDad having EoW as if he is a second-class parent, especially if he arrived at that stage by working in partnership with his ex. You may have had success in getting what you want through hundreds of hours of legal conflict and thousands of dollars, but the bottom line is that you guys have totally different perspectives and needs, so measuring your 'accomplishment' versus his chosen state is pointless.

                              The kid is 14, and very close to being able to call the shots. If Harold just waits it out, the kid will have absolute choice to go where he wants to anyway. He's not in danger with the mother, so exactly what is being accomplished by encouraging the kid to not go home?

                              You exist in this amazing bubble universe where everything that you have had to accomplish has been achieved through conflict with your ex, but there are a ton of us out there who have achieved a great deal with collaboration and patiently working within the frameworks of our agreements. My ex and I do week on, week off, but we often trade off days and hours at a time where it makes sense, and our kids see that cooperation. We got there through a lot of patience and mutual respect. While I'm sure that your ex is crazy and that would have made such things impossible, you give advice to people as if your experience is the only 'authentic' one out there, and basically bait them to have a a conflict-driven relationship with their ex. It's pretty irresponsible.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Straittohell View Post
                                Links, I can find all kinds of case law where EoW is sufficient to stop a move, but that's not the point. HammerDad probably doesn't have to worry about his ex pulling a crazy and moving across the country because he actually has a decent working relationship with her. He probably sees them a lot more than what he has on paper, and has simply went with the option that balances out the needs of his entire, collective family unit.

                                I don't care how good your kids are doing in school, you still don't have a right to dump on HammerDad having EoW as if he is a second-class parent, especially if he arrived at that stage by working in partnership with his ex. You may have had success in getting what you want through hundreds of hours of legal conflict and thousands of dollars, but the bottom line is that you guys have totally different perspectives and needs, so measuring your 'accomplishment' versus his chosen state is pointless.

                                The kid is 14, and very close to being able to call the shots. If Harold just waits it out, the kid will have absolute choice to go where he wants to anyway. He's not in danger with the mother, so exactly what is being accomplished by encouraging the kid to not go home?

                                You exist in this amazing bubble universe where everything that you have had to accomplish has been achieved through conflict with your ex, but there are a ton of us out there who have achieved a great deal with collaboration and patiently working within the frameworks of our agreements. My ex and I do week on, week off, but we often trade off days and hours at a time where it makes sense, and our kids see that cooperation. We got there through a lot of patience and mutual respect. While I'm sure that your ex is crazy and that would have made such things impossible, you give advice to people as if your experience is the only 'authentic' one out there, and basically bait them to have a a conflict-driven relationship with their ex. It's pretty irresponsible.
                                Right on. Some people have endless court battles with dramatic victories and defeats; some people have the day-to-day slog of trying to work things out with an ex who may be a jerk but isn't a monster from hell. And I suspect the latter situation is more common, and healthier, than the former. It's also a lot of work - not the cross-examination and court showdown kind of work, but the work of setting your own emotions aside to deal with a really annoying co-parent (recognizing that on some days you too may be the really annoying co-parent). HammerDad is a great example of this, not a "failure" because he didn't launch a scorched-earth battle for 50/50.

                                Comment

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