Parental Alienation, Is it considered emotional abuse?

[mrsb]

Things have reached an all time low with the conflict that my ex-husband creates. He has had me in non-stop litigation for 5 years now some of the claims and motions he has put before the court are perjusry. I suspect he does this in an attempt to bully?abuse me because it certainly is not about his children.

Around Christmas time there was a motion heard that he brought before the court and he was not sucessful, in fact he was ridiculed in court for being unreasonable and constantly litigating small issues.

My daughters have returned home from their scheduled spring break visit very distraught. The oldest has filled me in on what has happened and it appears he has turned his anger and hatred of me onto the kids now. He is involving them in adult issues, court matters and telling very hurtful lies about myself and my husband. He insits the kids pick one parent or the other and tells them they have a right to choose where they live. (I have sole custody). The oldest, 14, obviously is upset but see right through it but the youngest 11 is just destroyed emotionally. They do already talk to someone.

I guess the advice I am seeking is what can be done legally to remedy this. How can I put an end to this? How do I put an end to the non-stop litigation that obviously goes nowhere? Whatever happened this past week must have been just horrible to have affected my yougest this way. Is this not considered emotional abuse?

I try to encourage them to have a relationship even though things have not always been great with their father. I want the time he share with them to be as positive as possible but feel I am totally helpless with all this. We have been divorced for a very long time and he was relativly uninterested in being a father until I had remarried and since then has stopped at nothing to attempt to make my life as uncomfortable as possible. This takes a new low though.

Where does one draw the line between promoting a relationship with their father and protecting them from emotional harm? ugg. this is just killing me inside.

[AtALoss]

Some days I think it should be especially when it comes to the children. I sympathise with you as going through it as well. PM is you are able and can tell what I can of my experiences. while it is difficult to fight in court it can be done, but too where do we draw the line on how much we can fight too. If you have resourses available to you counselling for the chilren may be the best route for now. Some one they can talk to that is not Mom or Dad and is not directly involved but understands. More cost effective routes you could seek may be through your school, or church, peers, or organizations such as big brothers/sisters. CAS and OCL have counsellors too but may not be the route you want for now. The main thing is that the Kids need someone outside of this to talk to and maybe for the youngest something casual. but they need to have some way to talk and cope. I know you are doing your best and its hard.
Its tragic when this happens to the kids we as adults can see it for what it is but they cant. There are means to fight this but at present it is quite the task rounds od pyshcologists etc. Legal wise what i did is better told in PM. I dont mean to be discourageing but there are ways to slow down what your ex is doing at least. Legal counsel is best used if you choose this route to persue.

[Mominneed]

msrb, your x sounds totally abusive - I can unfortunately relate. 2 resources I recommend is any and all books from Lundy Bancroft as well as his website at www.lundybancroft.com as well as the owjn.net website which has a specific article on "legal bullying"

Stalking by Court: Legal Bullying and What Can Be Done About It

I get your whole situation - my x uses the legal bullying tactic to maintain power and control over me. There are steps you can take to limit them although I can't say I've been successful at this yet. Abusers tend to want more time with their kids when they are feeling more vulnerable of losing that power/control over you - they believe this is their only resort to get you under their thumb. So no surprise that he's trying to get at you through them. I suspect if he's anything like my x - it's the first time he's actually shown any interest in a relationship with the child/(ren). Emotional abuse is VERY serious although I'm not sure it's taken seriously enough in family court. Typically chalked up to "normal" reactions to an unpleasant situation. Lundy Bancroft is of the opinion that this is so damaging to children that it absolutely outweighs any of the benefits of having a relationship with the child. It makes children feel unsafe, unstable and causes unnecessary stress & anxiety. I would seriously consider talking to a women's shelter or possibly even CAS about this situation depending on how you feel - I think you're the best judge. Supervised access is the best option to promote a relationship without the stress of alienation - it'll still happen but they'll have to be more careful about it.

Really crappy situation - why can't people ever put their damn kids first and realize their true impact.

Wish you the best, remember quite a few of your posts and know what kind of an a$$ your left dealing with.

[Gary M]

... why can't people ever put their damn kids first and realize their true impact.

If everybody could do that, there wouldn't be very many of us here at all and the Divorce Industry would cease to exist.

As long as there are selfish dumbasses and professionals eager to profit from them, this is reality.

I share Brownstone's view on this.

Cheers!

Gary

[db1]

I'm so sorry for your eleven-year-old. it is so sad that he is hurting and corrupting his own child. document EVERYTHING (dates, quotes) when the kids come home.
i know what you mean...a relationship with their father is so important, but where do you draw the line? I say when you see negative affect like this and your hands are tied, get the child(ren) to a therapist. their testimony might help with arranging supervised visits and having the dad get his own emotional problem treated.

[Tayken]

Just addressing the title of the posting.

1. There is no official diagnosis in psychology/psychiatry for Parental Alienation Syndrome. DSM, ICD, nor any other recognized clinical diagnostic system has recognized it beyond the research that is out there.

2. Some clinicians will observe the behaviour pattern and recommend to the court that it is happening. It requires "extreme" cases and is rarely considered though.

3. Hostile Aggressive Parenting (HAP) leads to Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS). So if you are at the start of proceedings and are witnessing some evidence of behaviours in your children it is possible evidence to HAP. If you are 3 years in and your children are refusing to see you. This is the result of a successful distortion campaign (HAP) that has resulted in PAS.

4. It would require a Section 30 or OCL evaluation to determine HAP/PAS. Also, considerable time (not just 1 hour) has to be spent with the children by the person conducting the evaluation. Social Workers are not qualified to make a determination either. Psychologist / psychologist.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[mrsb]

Alot has happened since I started this post.


There was an assessment completed. The result of the assessment were what I had expected. The situation with their father is worse than I had expected. I have done my own research on the topic of PAS and what you are saying, Takyen, is what I have found as well. The children are victims of HAP, no doubt about it.


For many years I have felt that his position towards the children had little to do with wanting to be a Dad or enriching their lives. His unhealthy fixation and hatred for me outwieghted his love for the children.


To make a long story short, my oldest, almost 15, has broken all contact with him and has not seen him since the incident over the spring break. She has continued with her therapy and is doing wonderful. Ironically, Father has not called, wrote, email, facebook, nothing. It seems he has given up on her as his efforts to use her as a pawn failed.


The youngest recently spent some time with him over the summer break and even though the court came down on him hard with threats of radical consequences, his behaviour has escalated. The youngest has reported that during her visit things were unbearable. She was even exposed to drunkeness and abusive behaviour toward his girlfriend. I am sickened.


It certainly has been a difficult battle to make sure the best interests of the children have been put first. It is very hard to get the courts take action against this type of behaviour.


the moral of the story? If you are engaging in HAP or attempting to alienate your children, if you create ongoing conflict and put your children in the middle, not only will you destroy their lives but your desired result will never be acheived and will eventually backfire and you could end up like my ex, with a child that wants nothing to do with you and another that is well on their way.


So I am still left with the original question.. Is this abuse? I think it is.

[Canan]

I so empathize with your situation! My kids are young (4 and 2) but my ex is the same as yours! He uses kids to get to me. I fear so much for my children's future but don't feel the courts really care about the kids they just want to please the dad in this case! In my situation, he didn't have much interest in first until I left and then even now his visits are irregular. He asks mainly if we have court stuff going on.

Does the future get any better??

[Tayken]

Alot has happened since I started this post.

To make a long story short, my oldest, almost 15, has broken all contact with him and has not seen him since the incident over the spring break. She has continued with her therapy and is doing wonderful. Ironically, Father has not called, wrote, email, facebook, nothing. It seems he has given up on her as his efforts to use her as a pawn failed.

Hi MRSB,

This is the problem parents who engage in HAP face. Many people do not realize that children love both their parents. In fact, many children view their parents as being half their person. So, when a high-conflict personality parent engages in HAP they are really only damaging themselves.

One of the largest issues surrounding PAS and becoming a "diagnosis" is this very fact. Children have independent personalities and psychologies. HAP->PAS cycle will not work on an educated and well rounded 15 year old. It will backfire and more often than not... does. (As you have witnessed.)

What happens is that the now HAP parent starts accusing the other parent of PAS. But, documentation, and clinical evaluation can sort out the mess. It is unfortunate that the costs behind this are often the result of the parent engaged in HAP.

One thing to note is that it is easy to determine a high-conflict personality individual if they are able to manage their emotions. If they are able to bring emotion when necessary or are always on. If they are always on you are probably dealing with a HCP.

For some reason litigants think that what they are doing is creative, has never done before, no one will figure out their scheme... This delusional thinking comes from a superiority complex possibly as it is well known that alll the tricks in the book have been done, judges see them every day and don't find them creative nor funny at all.

Depending on how the HCP engages in HAP it can be found to be emotionally abusive and put your children at a risk of harm. CAS has a great scale for making this determination that a lot of professionals use. But, it is best if a professional applies the rules and guide lines to make this determination... You can go through it yourself but, remember you are emotionally attached to the situation and biased by nature. But, it can help you understand what determines "emotional abuse" and the criteria for the removal of children.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

I so empathize with your situation! My kids are young (4 and 2) but my ex is the same as yours! He uses kids to get to me. I fear so much for my children's future but don't feel the courts really care about the kids they just want to please the dad in this case! In my situation, he didn't have much interest in first until I left and then even now his visits are irregular. He asks mainly if we have court stuff going on.

Does the future get any better??

Hi Canan,

The past has very little relevance in your matter. Do not dwell on the past. Be happy that your children's father is interested in being a parent. Sure, it is disappointing as you may be reflecting on the past and possibly daydreaming that had the other parent acted this way the divorce would have not been necessary.

A father whom shows interest, is involved in your children's lives, etc... is in my opinion a great thing. Don't look at it negatively.

Your "fear" is possibly grounded in an anxiety which you and only you alone can address. The expression of fear as such is a very revealing admission against interest. (legal term meaning you said it so, it is true) You need to understand what is driving your "fear" for your children. Is it rational? What is driving the emotion of fear? Can you name it? Can you manage it? Is the fear grounded in fact or just an emotional reaction?

You are going to need to manage your "fears" as they can often manifest as over anxiety. Anxiety can cause a lot of confusion and complexity in matrimonial disputes if not addressed by the parent expressing them.

Personal recommendation. Never use the word "fear" in a sworn statement. It only reveals to a judge that your "fear" is founded in something, some emotional reaction to a grounding fact. The judge wants to hear the fact, not the emotion. If the emotion is indeed irrational and you are cross examined on your "fears" it could throw the balance of probabilities right off for a judge. It becomes a challenge of sorting through emotions and facts.

Court proceedings are based on evidence and facts... Not emotions.

Not trying to be critical. Just making an observation.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[mrsb]

Tayken,

You are very correct. I am dealing with a high conflict person. I know he has been diagnosed as having a personality disorder but I have just starting doing my own research on how to deal with a HCP. I always had just thought he was a typical sociopath. Always charming, dishonest but believable to some. It has been a hard struggle for me and the children. It was a brief marriage, a very violent marriage, and after all this time one would think he would let go and devote his time to fathering the children but that does not seem to be the case.

I have no idea why someone would want their own flesh and blood to hate their mother.

He has for several years accused me of alienating behaviour. He would vexatiously litigate. What finally put an end to it all was an assessment. It was very costly but I see it as an investment for the future of my daughters.

My concern now is for the younger child. I was hoping that the recent court case and the outcome of the assessment would remedy this but it appears I am wrong.

It is near impossible and unbearable for me to deal with a HCP. The more I know about dealing with one the better.

Canan,

If this is indeed happening in your case I do hope it gets better in the future for you.

I do agree with Tayken's advice. Find out where your feelings are coming from.

For me it was not a "fear", it was a very clear and apparent what was happening. I also felt very helpless for many years in the court system. You have to encourage a relationship and allow the father to be a father. If you feel something is wrong, and trust me, you will know when something is wtrong, then get an assessment done. A private assessment. Not a report from a child lawyer but a clinical report. They will be able to see through a lot of things.

If you have not done so yet maybe look into some sort of help for your kids. Even though they are young they are feeling tension and conflict.