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  • Suit against FRO, an update

    Well it seems that we are finally going to have our day in court..... September.
    I will write more details shortly, but I want to ask every one yet againt to tell us your story. We want to present these to ultimately to bring about reform.

  • #2
    we will be given more of the finer points on what our lawer will be addressing with in the next two weeks. So will keep you posted. we are just so excited that this will be finally heard... just such a long road.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm new here (this is my first post) but what are the details?

      Never liked the FRO. Only a couple of times dealt with them but once on phone years ago I felt they treated me like dirt. I had not paid support for a bit. Was barely getting by and I'm basically being threatened that I have to pay (yes, I know, you'll get your money, just give me time) and told instead that I don't care about my kids and there'll be consequences. Actually, same kind of tactics the credit card companies use now that I think about it.

      Also got another issue I just learned about today for something that is 7 months old and thought resolved. The couple of times tried to call them, I just can't get through but will try tomorrow morning.

      Comment


      • #4
        In a nut shell....
        Support should have ended in 2002. 2004 FRO has letter terminating the support from recipient effective that date. FRO denied having this for almost 6 yrs. 2005 Filed motion to vary. By mid year business was shut down and homeless on the streets of TO. FRO starts default hearing that lasted 3 yrs. They claimed I had underpaid(7G) and was doing everything in thier power to collect, but infact (proven in court 2009) that have overpaid 56G. In 2009 Court issued no jurisdiction order dated back to 2002.
        The suit against the Crown is punitive. All of the errors of this nature that FRO inflicts regularily is what we are fighting to change... the system is severly flawed.

        Comment


        • #5
          FAMILY RESPONSIBILITY OFFICE TELEPHONE NUMBERS - ADDRESSES (FRO)Ontario - Client and Legal Services

          This link is to the FRO phone directory... Try moving up the list to the managers.
          Also call the Ombudsman of Ontario and your MPP/MP but be wary with this group while they can offer alot of assistance they can only intervene if you are NOT currently in any litigation. They prefer to let things run thier course if you are in court and then if you feel post decision that you need them they may help. One needs to convince them though. I also feel that they need to hear from us with our concerns. Its easy for them to turn a blind eye if they dont hear much.

          Comment


          • #6
            Had negative experience wiht FRO. Submitted "original extraordinary expenses"the first package, and now since they cannot find the originals, they claim they I never sent them.
            Strangly, they provided copies of my receipts to my ex which shows half the receipt, with no $ amount. I asked the FRO lawyer when present at our trial briefly, since they had provided an affidavit stating I never submitted original, how were they able to post the amount for ex to pay since the $ amount is cut; did they just go by my statement of arrears showing amount $ without the actually receipt? she couldn't answer me and was going to look into the matter. The receipt they photocopied doesn't look like the copies I kept of the originals. My personal information is also blacked out, including my banking information. The entire back of the cheque is neatly blacked out, almost look like they used a large stamp. As a result, I am being accused of tempering with receipts blacking out information. Sending originals receipts was a mistake on my part which I am paying for now. To make matters worse, these receipts are dated 2007, and no one ever brought the issue of receipts until 2010, 3 years later. While searching on line I found a forum, the Omudsman of Ontario where a person claimed having sent FRO posted dated cheques for a year with FRO stating he didn't; FRO found the cheques two years later behind a filing cabinet during a move. It is no suprise as to why the Omudsman of Ontario has to be involve so often writing a not so good report. As far as my case, there is not much I can do except explain what happened as I know I sent the originals the first time i submitted receipts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Were these payments made with a cheque from your bank? Always should be, but at any rate however they were made if you used a bank that bank MUST keep records of your transactions in any form for a specified period of time. Generally this is 7 years from there records are sent to archives and are accessable for up to 25 years. if they have to go into the archives then you will unfortunately be charged a fee. (can be a bit pricey) But is worth esp if you are facing large amounts of arrears.

              Unfortunately FRO has a very self riteous attitude, and they think that they dont make mistakes. Many a time they lose payments and have an oh well attitude so dont expect much help from them for the time being. FRO told my spouse "we dont give a "F" if you die we just want our money. It amazes me how they can take such pocession of that money but have no responibility to be accountable for it. Another example is of a payor with 3 kids in second family was about to be put out on the streets because they lost a years worth of his payments that were being garnisheed. Both he and the employer had records of the payments made... took alot of argueing before they listened. Shame on you FRO.

              You have to do the work and if need be present it in court. One can file thier own motion with out a lawyer to have minor things adjusted. Going self reped is not always the best solution so I feel that when it comes to major issues it is best to have one.

              Some facts from Stats Can:
              Fro has a case load in excess of 200,000
              68,000 of that are cases in arears.
              Arrears can range from anything from $1 to what ever.
              This is what they use to justify thier means.
              Then they have the Deadbeat Dad's page. Take a look maybe 100 persons (M&F) are listed on this page. There goes that theory.
              Fact of life is that we all have times in life that we have fallen behind on a bill and in this economy??? Stats Can and FRO have little to say about how the other 67,900 are making efforts to catch up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes most payments were made with cheques and what I provided to FRO, the originals. I was able to order copies and provided this as proof but copies from the bank wasn't good enough, wanted the originals. To this point, not sure if to make my life difficult.

                I have read everything there is to read about FRO including from Stats Can. and hear of the case you are referring too, and newspapers article on how many thousands of calls do not get returned by agents, having such heavy caseload.
                I wasn't able to find facts on how ther go about hiring and type of training as everytime I call the call center, I get a different agent giving me different rules when it comes to reinforcing measures.
                I sure hope Judges know as much as we know how FRO works and what they are all about.
                I can't say they are not helpful at all as I can also understand how difficult it must be when they can't find someone who is suppose to be support or someone who has no bank account, no employer, etc...
                We can't expect them to do miracle...that would be too easy~

                Comment


                • #9
                  With some regrets I am leaving this site Just wanted to end this thread. yes we are still on for September and just waiting for the date to be called. A matter of formalities.

                  yes he has won

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am wondering how many other fathers have had a bad experience dealing with the FRO. From what I have read and heard, they are able to start escalation penalties without any proof of guilt. The fathers who perhaps are still paying support are guilty without the ability to provide any proof of innocence and with no investigation.
                    I think there needs to be some reform and the FRO should have less power. It appears that they can ruin a guys life by reporting a negative rating to the credit bureau, taking away a drivers license, and then passport.
                    If the father is already behind how do they ever catch up when they keep getting hit in the head by these crazy escalation measures.
                    Nobody wins!
                    I am trying to figure out how to help a friend right now. He is not guilty of any arrears and yet no one at the FRO will listen to him. His case will not get to court for at least a year because the ex keeps delaying the process, and he will most likely be put in jail before he gets his "day in court".
                    What are the penalty's directed at the other ex who is lying to the FRO? Without an investigation she can say whatever she wants. If her goal is to destroy this man, the father of her children, she will soon succeed.
                    I hope that there will be some retribution when all is resolved but in the meantime, lets hope we don't end of with another "dead" dad, someone so desperate that there is no hope, and no relationship left with his kids.....
                    The FRO are not listening!!!!! Nobody is listening!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello Sunshine1
                      There are so many flaws to the system if is incredible. The numbers are astronomical and this is what we are attemping to fight on behalf of all of us. Basically and historically the courts have repeatedly told that the FRO and like has no duty of care to a payor... Bull.... in my opinion and if so this is what needs to be changed.

                      We need to speak out and get together to fight this. I have asked many a time to hear from anyone and this need is growing more so. so please contact us directly at livinganightmare@live.ca For those who have done so before please do so again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        does the FRO have a duty of care for the recipient, as I can tell you that it's been a nightmare and impossible to have the agent on the file provided to me by the Director of the FRO return any of my calls to deal with a matter which is urgent.

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                        • #13
                          One would think they do as they are supposed to enforce and collect on behalf of a recipient. As I am typing this I am also contacting the Canadian Civil Liberties Union with these concerns and seek thier assistance for all of us. I am also speaking with others. So hence why I have asked to hear fron everyone again. My intent is to present all of our stories about FRO no matter what your complaint about them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Does anyone know what happened with this case, results?
                            'Wife to sue Ontario Family Responsibility Office for suiicide of man who couldn't pay child support? dated December 6, 2010 by Niren & Associates Family Law Practise'.

                            I have difficulty understanding how does a Judge come about in making the decision to take one's license, giving hefty fine to some payors and not others. Does it depend on how aggressive the FRO lawyer/case manager is or what exactly? Clearly there are cases of abuse from payors and the recipients.
                            I am familiar with a specific case where the payor was $20,000 in arrears and purposely asked for a lay off, collecting EI, working for cash money (impossible to prove), decreasing yearly income with all assets hidden by a third party, purchased a half a million property while laid off with his name on the property, and nothing FRO could do, except attempted to take his license away but payor was represented by a former FRO lawyer who specialized in FRO cases. Nothing was ever done with the arrears with case manager from FRO telling the recipient to pursue the matter with the Courts. The Courts rely on FRO to enforce payments so it becomes a vicious circle where nothing gets done. What is wrong with this picture?

                            Then there are cases where it is the opposite where they go after payors who have very little or no income due to valid reasons, resulting in some loosing everything, even becoming "homeless".

                            Auditor General Hands the Family Responsibility Office a Failing Grade: Jones
                            According to the Canadian Press dated December 6, 2010- After the last report of the auditor general in 2003, the government spent about $21 million over three and a half years in an attempt to develop a state-of-the-art IT system required to support a new service-delivery model. However, this effort was abandoned in December 2006 without a new system being implemented. The office had committed to spending $50 million on another new computer system.
                            Cases in arrears are up 23% since the 2003 audit, amounting to $1.6 billion. Also, there is almost $3 million held in a “suspense account” at the FRO that have yet to be paid out to families, which the FRO has failed to follow up on.
                            According to PC MPP Sylvia Jones from Dufferin Caledon-“these are children who are not receiving their court-ordered child support, the McGuinty government has had seven years to address these problems".

                            Does anyone know if any changes in the system has been made at FRO since 2010? and what are the requirements to be an agent for the FRO call center?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              FRO has the ability with taking a Licence to as well being steps to collect on arrears.... to start a VAPS. Then they can move on to seizing bank accounts and property. A lawyer can also instigate this thru a Sherrif but the lawyer has to get a writ out of the court which tells the Sherrif he can move in. A garnishee also allows FRO to get monies thru EI CRA and the above sources.

                              Comment

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