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  • Denied access with no agreement

    Hello-
    Well I have another question and Before I say that I want to that you all for all your advice

    well after 2 weeks CAS closed thier file and no charges are to be filed based on my wifes over exagerated allagations. I have been able to see my kids twice (supervised through CAS) during this time. Now that the case is closed they don not have envolvement with us anymore but because of there being no custody agreement they suggest that I only have supervised visitation through the salvation army program to ensure I dont run off with the kids (I have a federal government job that If I would even try such a thing I would get thrown in the brig, if you know what I am saying)

    so yesterday I requested that I may see my children 2 weeknights form 4:30pm untill 8pm (she can pick the days) and sun from 3:30pm untill 8pm untill we have a seperation agreement arranged. I think I am being quite fair espically after evrything she has put me though.

    Now all I am hearing is that she has to discuss it with her lawyer and I all I am getting is stalling. her layer has never responded to any of my requests that arnt benifical to her client and this just appears to one more instant.

    Can she deny me access, I know she cant make me have supervisied visits. but what are my rights. I am just getting so sick of this shit she is trying to pull

  • #2
    Has anything been started in court? Have you applied for access? Are you paying CS?
    You are giving her the upper hand by waiting for her and her lawyer to decide what is fair. Your requests for time are reasonable. What's stopping you from getting that time?

    Comment


    • #3
      No she cannot deny you access to the children, however the longer you wait, the more you are giving her status quo.

      Get thee to a courthouse and file an emergency motion for access post haste. Find a lawyer and pay for an hour of time or something. (if you are in Ontario there are actual services that can answer questions or start you on the right path (ie. FLIC) )

      You should also be paying her table amounts of child support (should have been all along actually).

      Good Luck,

      Comment


      • #4
        hello-
        thanks for the reply. I am presently not paying CS (it has only been 2 weeks) for the reason that I am paying the mortgage, car loan on her van, home ins, car ins, hydro, gas and hot water tank rental on a house that I was removed from. I am presently living in a room and can barly affford to eat let alone worry about CS as I am paying all her bills while this gets strightned out (because they are in my name) and I cant cancell them because how is she supposed to pay them. I have no prob paying CS I simply cannot afford to pay all her bills and $1000/month CS

        Comment


        • #5
          Call the utility companies and have them cancel the bills in YOUR name.
          Cancel the insurance and put your own name only on the vehicle you drive. Freeze any joint lines of credit/credit cards. Take note of any and all assets (ie. RRSP's, savings, etc) as of the date of separation (ie. the date you got kicked out of your house...which BTW unless you were removed by the police, she can't do to you)

          Is the car loan in HER name or yours?
          Is the mortgage in HER name or yours? (You will probably have to continue to pay that if she cannot, just to keep the bank from slapping a lien on it)

          I cant cancell them because how is she supposed to pay them
          NOT your issue. Pay your CS, get yourself into an acceptable access schedule for the children...the rest is her issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            my problem is everything is in my name, the loans, the mortgage, everything. I was removed form my house by police when she made alagations of domestic volience one night.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NBDad View Post
              Call the utility companies and have them cancel the bills in YOUR name.
              Cancel the insurance and put your own name only on the vehicle you drive. Freeze any joint lines of credit/credit cards. Take note of any and all assets (ie. RRSP's, savings, etc) as of the date of separation (ie. the date you got kicked out of your house...which BTW unless you were removed by the police, she can't do to you)

              Is the car loan in HER name or yours?
              Is the mortgage in HER name or yours? (You will probably have to continue to pay that if she cannot, just to keep the bank from slapping a lien on it)



              NOT your issue. Pay your CS, get yourself into an acceptable access schedule for the children...the rest is her issue.
              I am actually going to say that this is a bad idea IMO.

              Cutting her off financially will only make you look like the bad guy and controlling.

              What you need to do is get back in the house. If there is no restraining order or anything else, get your butt back in the matrimonial home. There is nothing preventing you from living in your house. But you need to read this:

              Dads Divorce Forums: Discuss Divorce, Alimony, Child Custody, Child Support, Asset Division With Other Divorcing Men • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)

              It is long, but necessary for your survival in this matter.

              And no she cannot deny access, as there is no order preventing you from seeing your children. Pick them up after school one day and take them out to dinner. But it is important to leave the ex an email or msg advising that you have picked them up, what you are doing and when you will be returning them to their residence.

              You do need to protect your assets and anything in joint accounts. So move money around, but continue to pay the bills. But it is more important to start getting regular access to the kids and documenting any refusal. Well, I guess that is second most important. First thing you need to do is get your lawyer to start the paperwork going for custody and division of property etc.

              Comment


              • #8
                Her having to take responsibility for paying her utilitiy bills is NOT cutting her off financially. He is well within his rights to have his name removed since he no longer resides there and I think it's irresponsible not to.

                With everything in his name she could run up the bills and add even more financial strain to him and there's nothing he can do to stop it. They won't go after her for it, just him. He has a right to protect himself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Agree with blink and nbdad.

                  The act of separating means you have to actually take steps to show the community that you are separated. This is a common law concept. It is necessary because she may decide to contest the date of separation, as well as the point of getting disentangled financially.

                  If you are worried about the optics of "cutting her off financially" then don't. Cut the bills, and at the same time begin paying CS. There is actually a good chance that you will have to pay CS arrears even if you have been paying the bills, so don't pay both.

                  If she has an accident driving a car in your name with your name on the insurance, what happens to your rates? A member posted a situation like this just a week ago. You are paying the Hydro? And what if she starts running the air conditioner and the dryer both constantly? Leaving things in your name is absurd, frankly, and you aren't protecting yourself, you are leaving yourself wide open to exploited for the bills, and to have to pay support arrears later.

                  You should cut off the bills, inform her immediately, immediately begin CS payments, pay half the mortgage payments (full if necessary) and charge her rent for use of your half of the house until the equalization if the home is complete. (It may not work out that way in the end, but this is what you begin your negotiations with.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If it was me - I would focus on Access.

                    Because no agreement or order provides otherwise - At law, both parents have coextensive custody...

                    Make formal inquires concerning health, welfare and education of the child...

                    Paying CS, without prejudice agreement, demonstrates co-operation between the parents...

                    At some point I suspect the child's' Custody and Access will be adjudicated. Best to start - historical co-operation and communication.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                      Her having to take responsibility for paying her utilitiy bills is NOT cutting her off financially. He is well within his rights to have his name removed since he no longer resides there and I think it's irresponsible not to.

                      With everything in his name she could run up the bills and add even more financial strain to him and there's nothing he can do to stop it. They won't go after her for it, just him. He has a right to protect himself.
                      The big question here is: What has the situation been historically prior to this point? Has he paid 100% of the bills or has she contributed before?

                      Look at it from a judges point of view at this scenario (going to use a hypothetical scenario here with a few guesses as to bills and such):

                      1. stay at home mom with 2 kids
                      2. dad makes 75k a year
                      3. dad pays 100% of bills while she looks after kids
                      4. the household bills are $2500 monthly
                      5. dad stops paying bills and instead gives $1098 (guideline amount) to pay for everything......effectively cutting funds provided to the household to 2/5 there prior amount

                      Look at that (hypothetical) scenario and tell me how a judge is not going to see it as punitive and causing undo hardship on the mom and kids.

                      Notwithstanding the above, lets define child support.....it is support for the child. It is the amount that has been (seemingly randomly) determined by the government as the amount to even out the standard of living that the child would have had if both parents remained together. Child support IS NOT amount that is supposed to pay for cars, house insurance etc. It is kids clothes, food, shelter, etc. Now we all know it doesn't 100% go to where it supposed to go, but a judge isn't going to buy the argument that you are providing child support to the ex for her to pay her car loan and all that. Child support is an obligation to the child.

                      Things like the car and insurance, you can't just cutoff. She will argue she needs it for the kids, making you look the bad guy. What you can do is have her open a policy under her own name, and pay that instead (even if it is a touch more, it saves you from any accidents that happen under your name).

                      What does him the best is getting back in the house. IMO I would never leave to begin with. You maintain a full time parenting relationship, it is cheaper then maintaining two residences. Plus, if you are paying the bills, at least you live there.

                      Edit - If she used to pay 1/2 or all of her bills before, then she will have a pretty bad case on her hands as to why she stopped. From there you ask for a favourable distribution of any matrimonial assets to make up for the difference in amounts you paid.

                      But don't pay for "extras" or amounts outside to regular realm. If those bills start rolling in, put the onus on her to a) justify them and then b) pay the extra amount.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In what way will this change the outcome? Not your armchair opinion, but actual facts coming from existing case decisions? Please don't try to speak for a judge unless you are one, or you are able to cite a relevant judge's decision. How will he get hit at court, pray tell? Not "Maybe", not "I think", not "Obviously". Show us a recent, relevant case result in this jurisdiction.

                        In the end, he will pay the table amount of CS. He will, or will not, pay spousal support based on their NDI after CS is paid. The family assets will be equalized, and the matrimonial home.

                        How will he be "punished"? He will owe arrears or he will not.

                        If the family can't afford to keep the house (pay mortgage and utilities based on the now split income) then the house has to be sold.

                        He is overpaying, by his account, by covering all the house expenses instead of paying table child support.

                        The mother has an obligation to support the children herself. If she isn't working, she should be imputed an income. The amount payed should be based on that. (If she has sole custody, and he should be dealing with that too, then she is still responsible for section 7 at her imputed income).

                        If it's been a long marriage and she hasn't worked, then incorporate Spousal into the payment, at a mathematicly reasonable rate. Even that, I would only recommend if entitlement is obvious.

                        Paying the table amount of Child Cupport is his obligation to supporting his children. He isn't being punitive by paying Child Support.

                        His best bet right now is to get into a lawyer's office pronto, take out a loan if necessary, get an opinion on whether there is a spousal entitlement, run it through the software, get a proper amount, pay it monthly (taking his name off the bills) and have the ex be responsible for living within the budget that she is going to have for then next few years.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          /golfclap

                          Well said Mess.

                          That's pretty well what we're saying. If she wants to end things, she IS going to have to learn to live on a reduced income...YES he needs to pay support, and YES he may have to pay her spousal support depending on the situation.

                          But she is NOT entitled to live scott free on his dime. Welcome to adulthood.

                          HE needs to be able to survive, he needs to be able to have an appropriate place to take the children, unless he wants to be a weekend father.

                          If he wants to be reasonable about it, (and doesn't mind pissing money away) he could always offer to pay the first three months of the insurance, or cover the deposit to switch the hydro to her name, or whatever. Yes, it might cost a bit, but it 1. takes the wind out of the argument that he's being the big bad meanie cutting her off totally, and 2. shows him as a reasonable, responsible adult.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mess View Post
                            In what way will this change the outcome? Not your armchair opinion, but actual facts coming from existing case decisions? Please don't try to speak for a judge unless you are one, or you are able to cite a relevant judge's decision. How will he get hit at court, pray tell? Not "Maybe", not "I think", not "Obviously". Show us a recent, relevant case result in this jurisdiction.
                            I speak from experience. Outside of actually being married and divorced (I never married my ex/mother of my child) I've been through near everything most here have from parental alienation, denial of access and fighting to have a relationship with my D4. I also benefit from speaking to family law lawyers at the law firm where I am a paralegal (albeit corporate). While I may be a new guy here, I've around many dad's sites, done my share of reading and know the lay of the land.

                            In the end, he will pay the table amount of CS. He will, or will not, pay spousal support based on their NDI after CS is paid. The family assets will be equalized, and the matrimonial home.
                            Correct.

                            How will he be "punished"? He will owe arrears or he will not.
                            There will be no "arrears" as no order has been made to start the clock ticking on arrears. He can be punished in an unequitable distribution of net family assets and pissing off the judge who gives him the every-other-weekend-daddy-screwjob with his kids.

                            If the family can't afford to keep the house (pay mortgage and utilities based on the now split income) then the house has to be sold.
                            The house can't be sold without the consent of both parties or a court order.

                            He is overpaying, by his account, by covering all the house expenses instead of paying table child support.
                            Or he could be continuing what he has always done. Without more details from OP, we don't know. Should he be protecting his assets and credit? Of course. But at what point does cutting off what he had previously been provided which a court MAY determine as a necessity and he in turn looks like a douchebag.

                            The mother has an obligation to support the children herself. If she isn't working, she should be imputed an income. The amount payed should be based on that. (If she has sole custody, and he should be dealing with that too, then she is still responsible for section 7 at her imputed income).
                            That again also depends on more info from the OP. Does the STBX work or is she a SAHM? Did she work prior to the child and what did she earn? How old are the children at this point?

                            All these factors will be taken into consideration in imputing her income.

                            If it's been a long marriage and she hasn't worked, then incorporate Spousal into the payment, at a mathematicly reasonable rate. Even that, I would only recommend if entitlement is obvious.
                            Makes good sense.

                            Paying the table amount of Child Cupport is his obligation to supporting his children. He isn't being punitive by paying Child Support.
                            No he isn't. But we must look at what child support is for: it is the needs of the children. He cannot state that he was paying child support so the STBX can pay her insurance and cell phone bill. That would appear that he is paying spousal support and calling it child support. It is where the money is going and how you define the monies uses that determines what kind of support you are paying.

                            Plus, what good is paying the guideline CS amount to the if he has no guarantee of where that money will go? He would end up having to pay for all the extra needs of the children and his own anyway, which could quickly add up to the same amount. He needs to get the household bills in his name and carry them from there. Her car, her insurance and her cellphone etc. he needs to advise her that he is transferring it to her name.


                            His best bet right now is to get into a lawyer's office pronto, take out a loan if necessary, get an opinion on whether there is a spousal entitlement, run it through the software, get a proper amount, pay it monthly (taking his name off the bills) and have the ex be responsible for living within the budget that she is going to have for then next few years.
                            Agreed. A lawyer here is definitely necessary.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Plus, what good is paying the guideline CS amount to the if he has no guarantee of where that money will go? He would end up having to pay for all the extra needs of the children and his own anyway, which could quickly add up to the same amount. He needs to get the household bills in his name and carry them from there. Her car, her insurance and her cellphone etc. he needs to advise her that he is transferring it to her name.
                              I still stand by my recommendations. Been there, done that. You will NEVER have a guarantee of where the CS goes to. It goes to support the children's standard of living while in her care. The longer he continues to pay these items, the stronger a case she makes for needing the funds and the better chance he has of being assessed a higher amount of payment (be it CS or SS) if/when it goes to court.

                              Plus he WILL get smacked with arrears even though he is paying the other bills. He MUST pay appropriate amounts of CS the month immediately following the separation to avoid this.

                              Comment

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