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  • make-up time

    Our court order is silent on make-up time. Can make-up time be an expected part of discussions when parents are making arrangements for changes to the normal custody schedule? Or is it discretionary, or perhaps dependent on the reasons for a parent missing parenting time with the children?

    For example, if a parent went away on vacation alone and missed out on time with the children, would they be entitled to make-up time?

    If a parent went away on business and missed out on time with the children, would they be entitled to make-up time?

    I'm not really asking whether make up time is reasonable based on someone's opinion. I'm asking whether it is expected by court/case law/precedent/standard practice. Basically I'm wondering how hard I can push when asking for make-up time (whether it's a "right") or whether I should be asking pretty please (noting that I'd ask nicely anyway).

    Thanks!

  • #2
    How does the Order read?

    If the schedule is dictated then that schedule is to be followed unless mutually agreed otherwise.

    If it simply says "equal parenting time", then you may have a stronger argument that you have not lost your access time.

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    • #3
      The schedule is pretty much dictated--certain days of the week allocated to each parent. Rotating holidays etc. Equal custody. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Could you explain it again?

      Comment


      • #4
        The way I look at it is (which may be overly simplistic and wrong for all I know):

        - if you cancel your parenting time, you should be asking pretty please for parenting time.

        - if your ex cancels your parenting time, you can be demanding.

        If it is makeup time due to work commitments, each parent should be reasonable as either may be put in that situation. But if one goes away on vacation and misses time, I'd have to say the parent likely forfeited that time and the other parent gained through a Right of First Refusal.

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        • #5
          The schedule is pretty much dictated
          Then you know your future schedule, unless agreed upon otherwise.

          HammerDad's advice would seem to be prudent.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by cool river View Post
            I'm not really asking whether make up time is reasonable based on someone's opinion. I'm asking whether it is expected by court/case law/precedent/standard practice. Basically I'm wondering how hard I can push when asking for make-up time (whether it's a "right") or whether I should be asking pretty please (noting that I'd ask nicely anyway).
            You are not going to find solid jurisprudence on any "right" as defined in law on a matter like this. Each case would be heard individually. You may find case law that is "similar" but, there is no defining 'case law' like say for mobility issues, what defines urgency before the court, etc...

            Access like child support is the right of the child. What you need to be cautious about is being "reasonable" in your requests. (Hammerdad's comment is bang on.)

            You won't find case law that allows you to be unreasonable and act unreasonably.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hammerdad--thanks. yes that makes sense to me.

              Orleanslawyer--If it's a work trip I do not have the discretion to decline to be away from my children, so it's not as though we can default to me taking the children on my time in the absence of an agreement between us as to arrangements for the children.

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              • #8
                Tayken--thanks. good answer.

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                • #9
                  If you have to go away for a work trip during your parenting time, you should generally offer the ex the opportunity to parent the kids during that time. If they refuse for some reason, you will have to find alternative care for your kids at your expense.

                  It is pretty common nowadays. If you are gone for 2 days, you let the ex know ahead of time and offer to discuss makeup time or re-arranging the parenting schedule. If they say no, you don't get makeup time, you are likely stuck. But, you keep that email as evidence of their inability to coparent with you and that they are being unreasonable.

                  You can also keep it in the back of your mind when they need a favour from you....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Hammerdad--right. Yes, I'm likely stuck if they say no (unless we're going to court about ability to co-parent, anyway), but at least now I have a good idea of what kind of ground I'm standing on when I ask.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Refocus here, everyone!

                      My ex recently went away on vacation for three weeks, with the kids in my keeping the entire time. When he got back, he was right over to see the kids without even going home first. And then he had extra time with them for a while afterwards before we settled back into normal routine again.

                      I didn't think of it as make-up time for HIS missed access. I thought of it as the KIDS seeing their dad, whom they had missed, for extra time.

                      Now if only he would have asked me if I was okay with having the kids for three weeks solid no breaks, before he booked his trip. Or if I would have appreciated some actual child support instead of him paying his airfare. For the record, I'm okay with both, but it rankles that he never thinks to ask.

                      With an ex less reasonable than me (teehee!), maybe it's all in how you frame your request for makeup time. Maybe suggest that you have a bit of extra time upon your return so you can tell the kids all about your trip and get caught up on their lives and show them the souvenirs and what you brought them and so on.

                      Or frame it as makeup time to your ex, to make up for the alone time they lost due to your trip. Depending on your financial situation, of course, you might even resort to a little bribery. Get the ex a gift card to a hotel and show as thanks for taking on the kids for extra time and suggest it be used for the time you want your extra access.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agreements often have a clause on how to amend. Why don't you both agree of ROFR and makeup for missed parenting time due to work . Sign it and date it and it may be effective enough.

                        Would have been better to include this in the original agreement if you travel for work.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Interesting discussion re makeup time. I think that if a parent travels for work regularly the parenting plan should have provided for that and to some extent the parent who did not deal with this is to certain extent responsible for his or her own misfortune.

                          What is reasonable likely depends on the normal schedule If the travelling parent gets every other weekend and they were away for work for their weekend then it seems the other parent should allow for makeup.

                          But there might be resentment if the at home parent did not get notice. Let us say she had planned a hot date on Saturday night and visiting her great aunt on Sunday because it was dad's weekend and he emails from Vancouver on Friday saying öut of town, won't be picking up kids. He is going to get some flack on the make up.

                          Usually makeup time arises when the primary residential parent cancels due to say -- grandmas birthday. In these cases there should obviously be makeup.

                          Often people will put in agreements that both parents will try to accommodate special occasions in the other family but this should go both ways.

                          I had a case where the dad often had to work during his time with the child. He had wanted a schedule which matched his work schedule but the mother wanted a "regular one" I.e he worked four days a week each week but they rotated and so he figured his time should be on the days that he didn't work. As he had his schedule a year in advance he thought it should be easy enough for her to read it.

                          However the mother won and the father got the child overnight every Wednesday night (and of course every other weekend) Some of the weekends he worked and some he didn't

                          So after the order for six months he got a babysitter for his time when he worked. The mother was howling about this. After six months he said öh how about we talk about having my time follow when I am not working. Suddenly she decided she could follow his schedule.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My understanding is that unless there is specific language in an agreement or Order otherwise, access you fail to exercise is lost.

                            Most normal people will see the flaw there - as kids get screwed. Especially in high conflict situations where no one can play nice.

                            Comment

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