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  • #31
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    ummm Trinton - did I mention shelters anywhere in my post on this thread? No.
    You mentioned women are always innocent.

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    Abortion as "prevention" to pregnancy? LOL That's not how things work Trinton - abortions are for discarding a fetus (after pregnancy has occurred).
    Derrr... No shit, sherlock... If you read my post, you will find that I said it was to prevent birth through due course. Birth control pill to prevent pregnancy. POint being that those are things that are out of a man's control.

    Originally posted by trinton View Post
    Was just stating that women can do many things to prevent pregnancy and birth through due course. Men can't get the abortion now, can they ? You may want to read into abortion.

    You must be still yawning and sleeping, or you really are the brilliant person I thought you to be.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
      Men can say no to intercourse. That is their option. They can wait until they know the women well enough, actually want a relationship with them before having sex. They also have the choice of a vasectomy if they never want kids. If they just want to jump into bed with any willing woman they they are taking the risk of fathering a child let alone the risk of an STD.

      this is getting off topic. I think the OP question has been answered.
      Dude, you're going so off topic you ended up in Brazil there.

      Not all of us just jumped into bed with a walking pair of legs. Some of us had a relationship prior with ex and their family for quite some time.

      Point being, once the sperm has flown in (even if the condom broke or mom's birth control pills didn't work or weren't really being taken), the mother get's sole power to make a decision as to get pregnant and keep child or not - meaning they can use morning after the next day - or not - and they could later get an abortion - or not. They could also decide to get an abortion then change their mind. This could go both ways as well, father may want to keep child but mom can just get abortion.
      Last edited by trinton; 11-05-2017, 09:56 PM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        Fair point on girlfriend.
        If you want to make things horribly complex, as Arabian rightfully says, bring your new significant other into the matter. Even as a character witness they are crappy because the court will expect them to say good things about you. Same with your parents and anyone you bring forward as a "witness".

        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        I agree to a degree about impregnating but was lied to about birth control, about getting an abortion etc. Men do not have the same options as women. I have had condoms break. I would have zero choice over abortion. In fact if I wanted to keep a child the woman could abort. I don't agree with abortion at this point in my life but thats a moot point.
        Drop this line of thinking. It has no place. The child is here. Stop waxing poetic about the past and how the child came about. The court really doesn't care. You have to deal with the here and now... Not the past and not the present. You need to narrow the scope of your arguments BIG TIME.

        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        Its not true that its equal 50/50 because women have far more reproductive options in terms of birth control, abortion, morning after, etc. And outright lying is fraud if not recognized by the courts.
        Take a chill pill. Again, your matter is a narrow scope of focus on the child. Not all the "social injustices" you think/feel/believe men suffer. The matter is about a child, who has been born and needs both parents involved equally. how the child arrived and your "choice" in that matter is irrelevant. In fact, your position expressed here could only serve to HURT your case significantly!

        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        Would you feel the same if I poked holes in condom to intentionally get a woman pregnant?
        How is this even REMOTELY related to your matter? Stop waxing poetic about social justice nonsense. Focus on the task at hand. The custody and access of the child in question. All of this is a useless debate that doesn't serve you and more importantly the child in this matter at all.

        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        As I say in my last point in my emails (g) I have completed a course and ask my ex to do the same.
        Don't ask. Just say what you did. Don't ask anything of the other parent. Just do what is right for you and the child. If the other parent wants to be an idiot... Let them. You have no control over them.

        Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
        All options for other resolution have been rejected. I have asked her for solutions many times to which she has said she is not willing to mediate, arbitrate or discuss any matters. Please read what I wrote.
        Then, you deal with everything through the courts. But, not as a shotgun blast of irrelevant materials.

        KEEP RELEVANT!!!!

        Comment


        • #34
          Thanks Tayken, for getting this thread back on track.

          Comment


          • #35
            Thanks Tayken.

            My point in asking him open questions was to see how far he would implode.

            A good lawyer would speak on this client's behalf.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              My point in asking him open questions was to see how far he would implode.
              My concern with any unrepresented litigant is that they don't understand what is relevant to their case. Many often think in the terms of "social justice" and struggle with the concept of relevance.

              Furthermore, many struggle with the core concepts of the "best interests" test and the various jurisdictional child custody laws. For example the CLRA in Ontario.

              They often argue irrelevant topics that have no bearing on their matter. They go into long diatribes about how the court "should" or "can" act. They drown in the complexity of court procedures and requirements.

              They fail to recognize that as an unrepresented litigant they are expected to perform the role of a lawyer and conduct themselves as such. They take personal liberties with their beliefs and feelings in their materials and arguments that are highly irrelevant.

              Furthermore, they don't get the idea of what it means to be "brief" in their arguments. That a 20 line paragraph is NOT appropriate in an affidavit. Many are far to emotional about the topic to argue logically about their matter and go off on an arctangent.

              Family law is not easy... Nor is it trivial. That is why there are trained professionals called lawyers that assist people with it. 98% of the population should not self-represent.

              People shouldn't self-medicate or perform surgery on themselves... Why they think they can represent themselves in a complex legal matter often puzzles me. It takes years to understand the nuances of family law and more importantly custody and access laws/jurisprudence. Going it alone on anything isn't a great idea... Why gamble with your children's future?!

              Yes, there are people who can't afford it. But, they can always afford some level of help so they don't screw up royally. I suspect that 80% of disgruntled parents problems are a result of their own conduct before the court and not because they are "bad parents".

              Yes, the system of family law sucks and needs to change. But, don't use your personal matter as a social justice warrior to fix everyone else's problem I say. Its the same rule about putting on a mask on an airplane falling out of the sky. Put yours on first then help others.

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

              Comment


              • #37
                ^^what tayken said

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                  My concern with any unrepresented litigant is that they don't understand what is relevant to their case. Many often think in the terms of "social justice" and struggle with the concept of relevance.

                  Furthermore, many struggle with the core concepts of the "best interests" test and the various jurisdictional child custody laws. For example the CLRA in Ontario.

                  They often argue irrelevant topics that have no bearing on their matter. They go into long diatribes about how the court "should" or "can" act. They drown in the complexity of court procedures and requirements.

                  They fail to recognize that as an unrepresented litigant they are expected to perform the role of a lawyer and conduct themselves as such. They take personal liberties with their beliefs and feelings in their materials and arguments that are highly irrelevant.

                  Furthermore, they don't get the idea of what it means to be "brief" in their arguments. That a 20 line paragraph is NOT appropriate in an affidavit. Many are far to emotional about the topic to argue logically about their matter and go off on an arctangent.

                  Family law is not easy... Nor is it trivial. That is why there are trained professionals called lawyers that assist people with it. 98% of the population should not self-represent.

                  People shouldn't self-medicate or perform surgery on themselves... Why they think they can represent themselves in a complex legal matter often puzzles me. It takes years to understand the nuances of family law and more importantly custody and access laws/jurisprudence. Going it alone on anything isn't a great idea... Why gamble with your children's future?!

                  Yes, there are people who can't afford it. But, they can always afford some level of help so they don't screw up royally. I suspect that 80% of disgruntled parents problems are a result of their own conduct before the court and not because they are "bad parents".

                  Yes, the system of family law sucks and needs to change. But, don't use your personal matter as a social justice warrior to fix everyone else's problem I say. Its the same rule about putting on a mask on an airplane falling out of the sky. Put yours on first then help others.

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken

                  I understand, completely. I would just like to point out something though. Reality is what is it the system is trying to accomplish? These are highly charged issues. So is the point to push parents out of the picture? Have you seen the stats of what happens to children who grow up without a father? And that is increasing. We are literally destroying the underpinnings of our society. More suicide, sociopathy, criminality.. .. Neither my ex nor I are represented and its gotten to the point that its what , 200,000 to go through a trial and everything leading up?

                  And before anyone accuses me of being sexist, my girlfriend is going through her own custody and is facing basically the same because her ex is a manipulative lier who has made up things. Both of them have lawyers and have spent 50k each.. and I can tell you that the process has been harder and more against the best interest of the children than anything one of them did individually.

                  My exes brother got grief from her family who put him through hell in family court and he said metaphorically "screw it" and turned his back on everyone, including his two kids. Want to know what happened next, his daughter went up into her room and hung herself. At 14, dead! Not some hypothetical situation, but reality.

                  So sure I may not be concise in my pleadings or even know what Im doing but the fact that I even have to fight to be in my daughter's life is a problem. It should be 50/50 shared parenting, parallel, whatever as the default. Unless there is serious abuse or something really wrong. I know that would gut the court system in terms of lawyers and judges etc that all exist as a result of an overly complex system that still comes down to someone's opinion..but what we have now is destroying families..

                  I have fought for over a year just to have 4 days, every two weeks with my daughter. Ive never committed a crime.. I'm an upstanding citizen.. You can explain to me all day long why it is like this but it shouldn't be.

                  And my deeper point is be careful what you wish for.. many people will just pay their child support, and say "screw this" .. its too much time, and effort, and stress.. and then what we have is 14 year old girls hanging themselves.. Great, what a prize! "The best interest of the child"

                  But seriously if someone is going to take my daughter away or limit me just because I am fighting to be in her life, they deserve the society they create as a result of that. Its not me against the system.. its not me against the judged.. I just happen to believe that children need both parents. And the system should be rewarding that mentality instead of pushing back.. remember, that you encourage grows, that which you punish, diminishes.. so if you want to drive parents out of their lives, continue to have a system that makes it as hard as possible..

                  OK, my waxing poetic rant is over.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    You are forced to go through the courts because you and the mother of your child cannot come to agreement. You need/want a stranger to make decisions for you.

                    50 k is a drop in the bucket. Have you considered what this costs the taxpayer???? - much more than 50k.

                    "winners" work out agreements.... losers have to spend megabucks on lawyers and years and years in and out of court. "winners" swallow their egos and get to the point and address concerns of the other parent and look to make the best decision for their children.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post
                      You are forced to go through the courts because you and the mother of your child cannot come to agreement. You need/want a stranger to make decisions for you.

                      50 k is a drop in the bucket. Have you considered what this costs the taxpayer???? - much more than 50k.

                      "winners" work out agreements.... losers have to spend megabucks on lawyers and years and years in and out of court. "winners" swallow their egos and get to the point and address concerns of the other parent and look to make the best decision for their children.
                      I would have made an agreement from day one. The problem is it only takes ONE party to want to go to court. I say this from both sides because my girlfriend is the reasonable one in her custody battle as well. Truth be told that all you need is one party to take it to court and they can take it as far as they want. The sad thing is like the expression about those who seek power, are the ones who should least have it, the ones who are the most uncompromising and want to take it to court thinking they should have sole custody, are probably the exact ones who shouldn't.

                      My ex wouldnt even meet for coffee to discuss what to do about our daughter.. Then next thing you know I got served.

                      And the worst part of it is, that what probably encouraged this is a culture of conflict because her parents, siblings, etc all had custody battles.. and her sister and mother were egging her on to take me to court and "get all you can"

                      I am not playing the victim because there are many things that are my fault, and I don't need to win your favour.. I'm just telling the truth. And where this mindset comes from is the past. Her sister told her, "why can't he just have her every other weekend like every other dad?" because that was the way it was 10 years ago when she went through custody.. and honestly I probably would have taken that to begin with, not knowing anything about raising a child or family court, but she did not have a discussion, just directly to court. Ive offered to raise child support three times and she never even replied or counter offered.. She has it in her mind its like Judge Judy and that the judge will put he screws to me.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I understand your frustration and know what it is like to have someone take you to court continuously. You are only on your first court action (hopefully you won't have too many in the future).

                        I would recommend that you focus on you and your ex. What your ex's family thinks or what your g/f goes through is irrelevant. Focus on your own situation... your child and the mother and leave others out of your issues. I'd retain a decent lawyer and look for one who isn't going to tell you just what you want to hear. I suspect you would be best-served by a lawyer who has good "client control." You should be preparing formal offer to settle.

                        You have to accept that the mother of your child isn't going away and you will have to deal with this person for many decades. Keep family histrionics out of everything and don't be a right-fighter.

                        oh.... and I forgot to mention: If you want to succeed in equal parenting you will have to PROVE that you can solve problems and come to solutions with your ex in an amicable manner. Two parents who can't agree on anything and who fight dirty, disrespect each other are not good candidates for shared custody.
                        Last edited by arabian; 11-06-2017, 09:21 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          I understand your frustration and know what it is like to have someone take you to court continuously. You are only on your first court action (hopefully you won't have too many in the future).

                          I would recommend that you focus on you and your ex. What your ex's family thinks or what your g/f goes through is irrelevant. Focus on your own situation... your child and the mother and leave others out of your issues. I'd retain a decent lawyer and look for one who isn't going to tell you just what you want to hear. I suspect you would be best-served by a lawyer who has good "client control." You should be preparing formal offer to settle.

                          You have to accept that the mother of your child isn't going away and you will have to deal with this person for many decades. Keep family histrionics out of everything and don't be a right-fighter.

                          oh.... and I forgot to mention: If you want to succeed in equal parenting you will have to PROVE that you can solve problems and come to solutions with your ex in an amicable manner. Two parents who can't agree on anything and who fight dirty, disrespect each other are not good candidates for shared custody.
                          Yes i know my parents are divorced and still involved in each others lives via my brother and I. I just wish my ex would see this.. Again i hate to sound one sided, but all of this is evident and would have done anything to avoid bringing the government into my life.. luckily:

                          [76] In analyzing the ability of the parties to communicate, the court must delve below the surface and consider the source of the conflict. The Ontario Court of Appeal has clearly stated that one parent cannot create conflict and problems with the other parent by unreasonable conduct, impeding access, marginalizing the other parent, or by any other means and then claim sole custody on the basis of lack of cooperation and communication.[27]

                          As far as the extended family, just giving you the background of the mindset. My ex is horrible at communication and negotiation.. which is why I would never have chosen her as a wife or mother. I think communication is the most important key to a relationship. She's ignored all attempts to settle and mediate.

                          Comment

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