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  • #31
    Credit Card $450 average
    Credit Card $260 average
    quick question... is that the minimum payment? Like Interest only? Or are you paying principle too?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
      quick question... is that the minimum payment? Like Interest only? Or are you paying principle too?
      That is the minimum payment for both but a small portion of that payment goes to principal.

      Maybe $180 on the $450 payment

      $30 on the second

      Comment


      • #33
        Quick reply as I'm in a rush right now:

        Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View Post
        Of our debt together, we have two credit cards which are in my name solely that we used to acquire debt together, cash advance for down payment, items for home etc. I realize that these are legally mine but as of now she is still including these items as joint so for this I will continue with that train of thought.
        OMG no wonder you are drowning in debt. Of all the things you've described, that has to have been your biggest mistake. You have GOT to pay down those credit cards fast.

        Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View Post
        I just worry that she will use the $355 towards the utilites anyway and she will still have both mortgage payments being made etc.
        Yes, that's the whole point. The mortgage is getting paid, and she is now paying half of it by receiving a child support cheque that is greatly reduced. But it is step one towards financial separation because she has to budget now, not just you.

        Comment


        • #34
          Joint debit is only debit that has both names on the debit.
          Individual debit is anything that has only one name on it.

          For clarification, which of these accounts are joint and which as individual. As you are not married, your ex is not responsible for debit that is solely in your name and vice versa.

          http://www.cleo.on.ca/english/pub/on...livtogethr.pdf

          You need to revise your debits and indicate which are joint debits and which are individual debits.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Pharah View Post
            ....
            For clarification, which of these accounts are joint and which as individual. As you are not married, your ex is not responsible for debit that is solely in your name and vice versa.
            ...
            Perhaps not technically or legally, but possibly morally. I think it is common for one person to put money on a personal account that was the direct benefit of both.

            A lot of couples don't track who buys or spends what, or where the credit comes from or where the income goes to when they are in love and together. As such, in some cases splitting ALL debts and assets accumulated during the relationship regardless of who's name is on it, is the only fair way to do it.

            It should depend on what happened, not simply who's name is on what.

            Comment


            • #36
              The above link is not working, please see section below on common-law debits:

              Debts
              In a common-law relationship, most debts are treated the same way that property is. Unless you have a cohabitation agreement setting out who is responsible for which debts, each spouse is responsible for repaying only his or her own debts (see pages 13 and 14 for more information about cohabitation agreements).


              http://www.cleo.on.ca/english/pub/on...livtogethr.pdf

              But if you both sign a loan agreement, you are both responsible. Either one of you can be held responsible for repaying the entire debt. Even if one spouse does not benefit from what the loan paid for, they might have to repay the entire loan if the other spouse is unavailable or unable to pay.

              Comment


              • #37
                billm: I understand where you are coming from and morally she should be helping with his debit however he needs to realize that without a legal obligation to those debits, her payments may stop, just as his payment of her utilities will stop.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Ok, so it would appear that I have the CS versus mortgage payment figured out, so again thanks Rioe. And although it is easy for some to say what was and wasn't my biggest mistake, we have all done things without thinking the worse possible scenario. It is to Billm's point that she was not able to afford any credit and we were near the final point of where we wanted to be with home, vehicles, new school for kids - 2 minute walk etc. Once she went back to work and our youngest was in school with the rest it wouldn' take too long + the flip side is we have some equity from the home sale to pay off about half of the debt right now. So yes, it will be the morally right thing as the loan & loc are legally joint through the bank but the two c/c's are solely in my name. From what I have read here it would appear in CL seperation that I would be able to ask for my down payment of the home back. If that is the case and she chooses not to spilt the sole debt, then I will do this and payout my single debt leaving her no choice but to split the legally joint ones. Again, I do not want this to get messy but will prepare myself for worse case scenario's so I can stop making the 'biggest mistakes'.

                  Update as well, I sent her an e-mail asking her to meet with me to try and split up the debts, support/access, property etc and she responded (well I think someone else wrote it for her) saying that we can meet this week but she will contact a mediator. I responded by saying first let's her & I meet, as I have heard that finding the right mediator can be challenging + I do think we can resolve all of these decisions on our own, again maybe wishful thinking here, but either way I will meet. Let's hope all goes well.

                  What is making me mad though, is when she was married and seperated only March 2010, she mever took anything from her ex in pension, SS etc. We both still have 30-35 years of working life ahead of us, I truly hope she doesn't try this with the fact of our 5.5-6 year CL relationship.

                  Oh and thanks for your replys all, you have made me feel the best about this sad situation that I have in awhile, at least giving me some hope.

                  Keep the advice coming.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Update: Hi all, just wanted to give you an update on what has happened through the advice I have received here. I will cut n' paste the responses.

                    So let's just say that emotion was alittle high at the end of this week. The good news is that I have completed my intake mediation appt so within a few weeks we should start meeting and hopefully resolve this. What sucks is that I was lucky enough to have her pick up the phone for me on Wednesday and spoke with my kids around dinner time. When I asked my oldest (5) what he was doing he said he was speaking to (Steve). I am like, who? and then I could hear the dude just carrying on a conversation in the background. So throughout my call this guy would talk and when I am on speakerphone talking to my kids it was causing a distraction. Later that night I found out that it is my ex's new boyfriend and I lost it for the following reasons:

                    a) It is our joint home with all of my possessions and I have no idea who this guy is
                    b) I am paying for a home and now, for however long this guy gets to enjoy my kids company and time more than I do
                    c) Could you not have shown respect and just kept your mouth shut while I talked to my kids

                    Honestly, I was upset that this guy could be staying at my home and I was none the wiser. When I call from where I am staying I always go to a free bedroom and when the kids get dropped off to me, until this gets settled, I always ask my GF to leave and I call her when the coast is clear. Maybe I was wrong in this approach and should have just flashed it all right in front of her. I do not care that she has a new BF but either drop the kids off to me and go out and see him at his house, or wait and agree to sell ours. Maybe I am overreacting but to me this really does feel like a lowblow.

                    So I did a few things as per the advice here:

                    I had called utilities and found out that our hydro, union gas, direct energy had all scheduled name changes ehich was good. When I called Rogers for internet, cable, home phone I found out that she went 11GB's over on internet, 1394 minutes on long distance, and some movies were ordered. All I got was the 'here is what you owe' so I called in see if I could place a block on things and started up the transfer over. Then I told her as of April 1, 2011 I would be paying my scheduled cs minus her 50% of the mortgage and it will be clearly marked cs. I told her that she had until March 31, 2011 to switch Rogers into her name with the cs guidelines and this is the response I got:

                    In reference to your secondary e-mail addressing your intention to alter your monthly contribution to the sustainment of our family; it is my understanding that this is absolutely non-traditional to say the least. I will address this on record that I am not in agreement with this structure however again this is an item to be discussed in mediation and should you choose to make these alterations prior to a formal agreement that is mutually agreeable I am left with no choice but to adapt to protect and provide for our children . I would like to state for the record that this type of strong arming will not be tolerated and will certainly be addressed through the appropriate avenues during our mediation.
                    I then also stated that I want the home asap with a closing day of July 1, 2011 after the kids school is done and indicated that I feel she is stalling here and if she will not cooperate I will file a motion for this. Well I guess now I know why she was stalling. Here is the repsonse:
                    I understand the sale of our home is necessary however I have been trying to ensure that our children are able to have the stability of completing their school year without another difficult transition as the past 16 months has created a substantial amount of insecurity and uncertainty for them. The details for the sale of our home can be discussed in mediation. Should you deem it necessary to file official paperwork to accelerate the process I cannot stand in your way nor will I be motivated by a bullying technique. Just as I have done here I will respond to your actions and continue to care for my family through the challenges of this separation.
                    Here is the custody part as now she has indicated that I get bw Saturdays no less????
                    Access/custody arrangements for our children will also be addressed in mediation as I do not find it appropriate to discuss this at this time while you are obviously under duress. The children have an event to attend on March 19<SUP>th 2011 </SUP> that has been planned for quite some time. I have offered March 20<SUP>th 2011 </SUP> (1030am-630pm) in its place and I trust this will be sufficient to close this matter at this time. Going forward and until an agreement can be made in mediation we will follow the every other weekend schedule (Saturdays 1030am-630pm) – ie March 20<SUP>th</SUP>, then April 9<SUP>th</SUP>, April 23 and so on) and I will continue to drop them off and pick them up to assist in facilitating time for them to spend with their father.
                    Followed by this:
                    I trust that all matters requiring a response have been addressed and will require that going forward contact is restricted to your phone conversations with the kids. Should an emergency occur and you need to contact me please continue to do so via e-mail and limit your content to include the issue that requires attention. It is not in either of our best interests to participate in spiteful conversation that focuses on the others personal life.
                    There was reference to the 21 days notice and which I pointed out we verbally spoke about this back in November and you have already proactively switched 3 of the 4, you cannot pick and choose. Obviously still wants me to pay for the one that she can run up. So I said have until April 9th if you wish but I am still going to do this.
                    She sent me an e-mail stating that she has not retained legal counsel, affordability, but I am 125% sure this is not her e-mailling me. Big words, not her style of writing at all.
                    Sorry about the long winded e-mail all but looking for somemore insight as to push full steam ahead with what is laid out here?

                    Thanks again all.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Could be the new guy helping word things, but seriously, that could easily be my ex as that is exactly her form of passive aggressive style.

                      For her first point on household expenses:

                      Of course she doesn't believe this to be the way things work because she was probably speaking to her hen friends that say she should be able to make you pay for everything.

                      I would simply reply with "While I understand you don't believe these changes to household expenses to be traditional, it is not my responsibility to maintain expenses, aside from the mortgage as ordered, in a residence where I do not reside. Such expenses are the responsibility of the person residing there, you, and as such I have taken the appropriate steps to remove myself from all expenses relating to the house, except as otherwise ordered. Should you wish to arrange for the services, you may do so at your own expense."

                      The house:

                      "While I understand that this separation has been hard on the children, and do which to minimize the impact on them, the court order provided that the house be put up for sale by "X" date. Further, I am to be consulted and informed on the sale process. It is my belief that the sale of the house will allow each party to move forward and arrange for new accomodations, which will help the children adapt and move forward. Should you believe the children are feeling undue stress or need counselling, I would be more then willing to consent and assist in any professional counselling the child may require."

                      Access:

                      What does the court order provide for? If it states you get specified periods, simply reply that you will be abiding by the court order regarding access. Any diviation from the court order could be deemed as denial of access and will be remedies in court.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                        Could be the new guy helping word things, but seriously, that could easily be my ex as that is exactly her form of passive aggressive style.

                        For her first point on household expenses:

                        Of course she doesn't believe this to be the way things work because she was probably speaking to her hen friends that say she should be able to make you pay for everything.

                        I would simply reply with "While I understand you don't believe these changes to household expenses to be traditional, it is not my responsibility to maintain expenses, aside from the mortgage as ordered, in a residence where I do not reside. Such expenses are the responsibility of the person residing there, you, and as such I have taken the appropriate steps to remove myself from all expenses relating to the house, except as otherwise ordered. Should you wish to arrange for the services, you may do so at your own expense."

                        The house:

                        "While I understand that this separation has been hard on the children, and do which to minimize the impact on them, the court order provided that the house be put up for sale by "X" date. Further, I am to be consulted and informed on the sale process. It is my belief that the sale of the house will allow each party to move forward and arrange for new accomodations, which will help the children adapt and move forward. Should you believe the children are feeling undue stress or need counselling, I would be more then willing to consent and assist in any professional counselling the child may require."

                        Access:

                        What does the court order provide for? If it states you get specified periods, simply reply that you will be abiding by the court order regarding access. Any diviation from the court order could be deemed as denial of access and will be remedies in court.

                        HammerDad, who do I make your cheque payable too ?? So do you recommend I send back these responses?

                        And this is the thing, their is no court order on anything or access??? I call everyday and every week-end I ask what my kids availabilty is and I am simply told they have plans or are busy and I can see them at my next arrangement. I told her I am not happy with this and want to see them more, weekly, but will also cooperate with this but by no means is it me agreeing to it, just that it gives me some access of a regular schedule. I told her that this is not 1990 anymore and two days a month is insulting and inadequate. I do not even get sleepovers?? Plus now what makes me mad is many of the times now where she is not avaliable, she is probably out with buddy letting him get to know them.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View Post
                          HammerDad, who do I make your cheque payable too ?? So do you recommend I send back these responses?
                          You can, or in a format you prefer. Emailing her re: house services, further gives her notice to get the services herself. She can't really claim you cut off the heat/hydro on the kids when you can break out emails showing you gave her a months notice and then followed up 2 weeks before to remind her to get her own services.

                          As for the house, it shows you are taking a child centric approach.

                          And this is the thing, their is no court order on anything or access??? I call everyday and every week-end I ask what my kids availabilty is and I am simply told they have plans or are busy and I can see them at my next arrangement. I told her I am not happy with this and want to see them more, weekly, but will also cooperate with this but by no means is it me agreeing to it, just that it gives me some access of a regular schedule. I told her that this is not 1990 anymore and two days a month is insulting and inadequate. I do not even get sleepovers?? Plus now what makes me mad is many of the times now where she is not avaliable, she is probably out with buddy letting him get to know them.
                          You need to address this ASAP.

                          First DO NOT CALL HER. Always email her a requests for parenting time. You need to show the courts that you've made consistant attempts and that she has been frustrating your ability to parent your children. Depending whether I got time with the kids on a weekend and how much time I got I would email the ex each Monday asking:

                          1. if I got the full weekend, I would ask for time midweek the following week - always be a week ahead - and for the next weekend.

                          2. if I got one day a weekend, for another day the upcoming weekend and a midweek day the following week. Try and stay a week a head.

                          Then document and save her replies whether or not you get parenting time. If she regularly says no, you need to show the courts a pattern of denying access and that you have been activitly attempting to parent.

                          Things you can do without her approval is going to the school and having lunch with the kids, becoming active in their school otherwise (chaperone field trips, get on the parent/teacher council).

                          But honestly DO NOT CALL HER. You can't prove a conversation (unless recorded and the recording may not be admissable in court) and you can't prove you weren't being beligerant. Only email her. Also do not tell her that this isn't the 90's etc. It only proves to her that she is getting under your skin and I bet satan is getting more then a touch of satisfaction from that.

                          Be consistant. Email Monday as for parenting time the following week. Follow up on Thursday/Friday to ensure she knows you are serious. Be business like, email her as if you were emailing a judge.

                          Her instance that access will be dealt with in mediation is a delaying tactic in an effort to build status quo. If you can fight her assertion that you haven't been active in the kids lives with proof of her frustrating your ability to parent, you have a much better chance of getting a satisfactory conclusion.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Well said, againn thank you! I only call home for the kids and keep track of every call, for the most part they are the ones not picked up and I only e-mail her to speak with her. I have a ton of e-mails of her telling me I am a bad dad, a-hole etc, again now that I look back stall tactics giving her more time as the CP without any other arrangement. I will admit, it is hard sometimes to keep your full cool but I understand why this is important.

                            So even if she lays out this schedule I still e-mail weekly and follow up at the end to say when are they available? I know she is going to keep copying n' pasting the same, this is the schedule we put down etc when I do not agree with it.

                            Do I have the right to ask for a phone schedule as well? And I like the school idea although I am sure she will quickly say that if I visit it will be emotionally hard on the kids to see me out of schedule etc, her favorite line, although it is perfectly fine for me to only see them twice a month or have some new dude over whenever she wants.

                            Thanks again H-Dad!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              She is offering you 8 hours every other week, for a total of 208 hours a year. That isn't anywhere NEAR agreeable or fair.

                              I would simply reply:

                              "Hello Satan's dance partner,

                              Thank you for your email of X date where you provide your recommended parenting time schedule. Unfortunately I cannot agree to such schedule as I believe it does not provide me with adequate time with the children. It is my position that having both parents active and equally involved in our children's lives what is in their best interests. Your proposed schedule would not permit me be as involved as parent with our children as they require.

                              Given the children's relative ages and with what is normal for a child their age, I respectfully suggest that we agree to a schedule which would permit me more age appropriate parenting time. As such, I propose the following:

                              1. Dad shall be entitled to parenting time every other weekend from 6pm Friday evening to 6pm Sunday evening.

                              2. Dad shall be entitled to parenting time each Wednesday from 6pm to 8pm (or 9, depending on your kids ages). Upon each child reaching the age of 8 years old, such time shall increase to begin each Wednesday from 6pm and until the beginning of school Thursday morning.

                              3. Dad shall be entitled to parenting time with the children March Break in odd numbered years. Mom shall have the children during March Break in even numbered years.

                              4. Dad shall be entitled to vacation tim with the children for 2 weeks each summer. Such two weeks may or may not be consecutive. Dad shall provide notice of such vacation dates shall be provided to mom no later than May 1 of each year. In the event notice is not provided, dad shall lose the right to first determination of vacation dates, but this does not negate the entitlement to vacation time.

                              5. Christmas Break - Dad shall be entitled to one week of the childrens christmas break. In odd numbered years dad shall be entitled to the 1st week and in even numbered years dad shall be entitled to the 2nd week. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Christmas Day shall be split evenly with each parent and such Christmas Day period will override the regularly scheduled parenting time.

                              6. Christmas Day shall be defined as 2pm December 24 in each year until 2pm on December 26 in each year. Dad shall be entitled to parenting time from 2pm December 24 ending at 2 pm December 25 on odd numbered years. In even numbered years dad shall be entitled to parenting time from 2pm December 25 ending 2pm December 26. Upon the closing of the Christmas Day period, parenting time shall revert to the Christmas Break schedule provided in item 5 above.

                              6. Halloween - Mom shall have Halloween in odd numbered years and Dad shall have halloween in even numbered years. The parent responsible for halloween shall be responsible for any costs for costumes. Halloween shall be defined as begining 6pm October 31st and ending 9am November 1, at which time the regular parenting schedule shall continue.

                              7. Long weekends shall be split, in that we get every other holiday. Holidays shall include Family Day, Easter Weekend, Victoria Day Weekend, the August long weekend, Labour Day Weekend and Thanksgiving Weekend. Should Canada Day fall on a Friday or a Monday, Canada shall be included as a long weekend. Such long weekends override the regular access schedule.


                              Mothers Day – If the children do not otherwise with Mom on Mothers Day weekend, the Children will reside with Mom on Mothers Day weekend. Such weekend to be from 6pm Friday ending 6pm on Sunday.

                              Fathers Day – If the children do not otherwise with Dad on Fathers Day weekend, the Children will reside with Dad on Fathers Day weekend. Such weekend to be from 6pm Friday ending 6pm on Sunday.

                              Telephone Access – Mom and Dad agree that the children shall have open telephone access to either parent while in the other’s care.

                              It is my belief that the foregoing is fair and equitable, and most importantly, in the children's best interests. I am willing to continue moving forward through mediation in order to reach equitable agreement with you that benefits both you and I, and our children.

                              There are other things you could include, but that is the gist.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                H-Dad, the adrees to: opening line had me lauging in tears, which is a good thing when dealing with this That is a great breakdown and will come in handy with our first mediation session in a couple of weeks. If I can borrow your expertise in one other area that I have searched this forum in but still not sure of the result. I am looking to have my kids 40% of the time, in being honest with myself I do not think I can work the 50/50 and be 100% reliable without calling to say I may be late etc (work wise). In saying that I have tried to find how potential CS would be calculated in this manner. I see how it works with 50/50 but would the same method be used in 60/40%? 60% of my table 40% of hers and I pay the difference or would I pay her 60% of my scheduled table? H-Dad this combined with the info you have given me is making me feel more confident about mediation. Thank you again.

                                Comment

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