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First day here - this is my story- I think i messed up

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  • #16
    Ok so just so im clear...i should be paying the table amount right now correct, and not the offset amount. I only see my kids thurs, fri, sat and sun every second week so I think i have to pay the table amount because im under the 40%.

    Also -many times ive attempted to keep the kids for an extra day. The result..she shows up at my house..or in one case...at a family gathering..screaming that im refusing to let her see her kids...at which point my kids hide in their room while the eldest takes off down the street. Not a good scene. Or just last weekend..she agreed to let the kids come to my parents for a few hours to attend a family gathering. But then stupid me..after she agreed i also told her that i would be bringing the kids to school on tuesday morning instead of monday morning...because of the holiday on monday. The result....she refused to drop the kids at the family event last weekend for the few hours until i agreed to take the kids back on monday instead of tuesday. I refused to agree to that...so she withheld the kids from the family event she had already agreed they could attend. Hair pulling!

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    • #17
      A useful tool that many people have used is a software program Our Family Wizard. You can read about it online.

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      • #18
        She is running the show but what can I do. My kids are stuck in the middle. The kids feel so bad for her when she shows up screaming and ranting and the only way to make her stop is for the kids to go with her so thats what they do. I cant just show up at her house and insist the kids get in the car on "my days" because at the end of the day they are the ones crying in the living room and i cant do that to them.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by very_sad_dad View Post
          Ok so just so im clear...i should be paying the table amount right now correct, and not the offset amount. I only see my kids thurs, fri, sat and sun every second week so I think i have to pay the table amount because im under the 40%.

          Also -many times ive attempted to keep the kids for an extra day. The result..she shows up at my house..or in one case...at a family gathering..screaming that im refusing to let her see her kids...at which point my kids hide in their room while the eldest takes off down the street. Not a good scene. Or just last weekend..she agreed to let the kids come to my parents for a few hours to attend a family gathering. But then stupid me..after she agreed i also told her that i would be bringing the kids to school on tuesday morning instead of monday morning...because of the holiday on monday. The result....she refused to drop the kids at the family event last weekend for the few hours until i agreed to take the kids back on monday instead of tuesday. I refused to agree to that...so she withheld the kids from the family event she had already agreed they could attend. Hair pulling!
          Document all that. And start recording your interactions with her.

          I personally like the idea of you paying offset - and being very very clear that 50/50 is the access schedule you are assuming and implementing and that she has been and continues to unilateral deny equal access which is in the best interest of the kids. You don't have an agreement of any kind - who the hell is she to take over?? Stop being a door mat. Get to court asap for an 50/50 order.

          Don't ever state that you are every other weekend access - you ARE 50/50, its just that she continually denies and interferes with access, so now you are going to court to enforce 50/50

          Also, it seems like you are enabling her. If you have the kids and she is interfering with access by being an uninvited guest - call the police (would like to hear feedback from the forum on this).

          Be business like in all dealings - just state that equal parenting is best for the kids. Make sure you never say or do anything that you would not want a judge to see.
          Last edited by billm; 05-15-2014, 01:26 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by very_sad_dad View Post
            She is running the show but what can I do. My kids are stuck in the middle. The kids feel so bad for her when she shows up screaming and ranting and the only way to make her stop is for the kids to go with her so thats what they do. I cant just show up at her house and insist the kids get in the car on "my days" because at the end of the day they are the ones crying in the living room and i cant do that to them.
            Fair enough, but if you continue on your path - you will not raise your own kids. That is not good for them, especially considering their hysterical other parent.

            Some pain now, for gain later perhaps - they are your kids equally damnit. Perhaps let them know that you are going to go to 50/50 whether mom likes it or not and that they have to let you worry about mom on your access time - tell them that they don't belong in the middle. Again, it is not you putting them there - you and them deserve 50/50.

            Waiting a year to make this happen has made it harder for you and them, but all that means is to not wait any longer.

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            • #21
              I agree I am enabling her...but how do i explain to my kids why the police are outside with mommy. They were very protective of mom when she showed up at the family event screaming and ranting and just wanted to leave with her.I cant imagine how it would effect them to see police at the house. I know she is doing this to hurt me and its working but its so hard to know what to do. As for going to court to ask for 50-50...first of all..im not really sure how to do that..but im seeing a lawyer ...and second..the truth is..im terrified that if i go to court and ask for 50-50 a judge will say..hey look buddy..u havent paid support for a year...so im taking the kids away entirely. im sure im not being rationale...but i only see my kids 4/14 days as it is..i cant stand to lose anymore time with them.

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              • #22
                having said that..i do have appt with lawyer...and as scared as i am to lose the kids..i have to start taking action.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by very_sad_dad View Post
                  I agree I am enabling her...but how do i explain to my kids why the police are outside with mommy. They were very protective of mom when she showed up at the family event screaming and ranting and just wanted to leave with her.I cant imagine how it would effect them to see police at the house. I know she is doing this to hurt me and its working but its so hard to know what to do. As for going to court to ask for 50-50...first of all..im not really sure how to do that..but im seeing a lawyer ...and second..the truth is..im terrified that if i go to court and ask for 50-50 a judge will say..hey look buddy..u havent paid support for a year...so im taking the kids away entirely. im sure im not being rationale...but i only see my kids 4/14 days as it is..i cant stand to lose anymore time with them.
                  First off you need to understand that you have a right to see your kids, and that right is in no way tied to support. Support is a separate issue, and even deadbeat dads have a right to see their kids.

                  As to what to tell the kids, you need to position it positively. You are their parent too, and you want to spend time with them. You and their mother are trying to work it out, but it is difficult. DON'T say anything that denegrates their mother.

                  What you have to worry about more than the support issue is the status quo. Her lawyer will tell the judge that you haven't been using 50/50 access, haven't asked for it, and therefore there is an established status quo that should remain. You need to counter that you have repeatedly (and have evidence to show it) asked for more access and been denied. Judges do not like to see that parents restrict access when their is no agreement in place. You need your ducks in a row. You need to make formal requests with registered letters, not just emails or texts. You need to be firm.

                  It is in your children's best interest to have a good relationship with you, don't let them down.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by very_sad_dad View Post
                    having said that..i do have appt with lawyer...and as scared as i am to lose the kids..i have to start taking action.
                    You DEFINITELY wont get less access than every other weekend and Wednesdays.

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                    • #25
                      I also agree with paying offset CS now. You have no formal signed agreement of any sort saying anything about access or CS. The default is still equal parenting and supporting the kids in proportion to both incomes. You believe that you should have 50-50, so offset CS is entirely appropriate. The fact that your ex is denying you 50-50 is her own choice, not anything you agreed to. Later in court, a judge will see that you have been paying CS voluntarily despite the access fight. You will look more reasonable.

                      As for your ex interfering with your access, you'll have to do your best to work around her. Don't tell her what your activities will be with the kids. Pick them up at school as normal, then take them wherever you like for the weekend. Return them to school the next school day as normal. If you don't tell her you'll be at a family function, she can't show up there to mess things up. In fact, try to not be home at all when she's trying to cut your access off early. If you get the impression she'll show up at a time other than what pickup time is supposed to be, leave the house. Go out for ice cream, or take the kids to the park or a movie, or whatever. A movie is perfect because your daughter will have to turn her phone off!

                      And if you aren't already, start doing all communication about access and agreements and arrangements by email. That way you have documentation about what is happening. Have someone subtly take video of her ranting and raving if she shows up places she shouldn't be. I agree that calling the police isn't appropriate, and there's little they can do if there's no agreement with a clause for police enforcement anyway for you to show them. But having recordings of her unreasonable behaviour and habit of manipulating the kids into leaving your access early will be very useful in court.

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                      • #26
                        Rioe I'm curious - do people actually show recordings of another parent 'losing it' in court? What stage of court process would these recordings be used?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          Rioe I'm curious - do people actually show recordings of another parent 'losing it' in court? What stage of court process would these recordings be used?
                          I have no idea, unfortunately, as I managed to avoid the court process. But surely having video evidence is better than 'he said she said' in court?

                          There's got to be a big difference in an affidavit between
                          "Your honour, on dates X, Y and Z, the ex showed up earlier than pickup time and had a temper tantrum until the kids got upset and left with her. Please see recordings A, B and C."
                          and
                          "Your honour, she has shown up earlier than pickup time and had a temper tantrum until the kids left with her."
                          "No I haven't!"
                          The judge may never watch them, but their existence could make a difference.

                          Even just knowing you are recording might make an ex behave better. Perhaps someone with court experience could chime in here.

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                          • #28
                            FYI - i do have several recordings. Ive tried to document every incident extensively just in case I ever needed to use it. I read on one site that judges would not view recordings but that a transcript of the recording could be submitted as proof. not sure how accurate the info is as i found it on a random site.

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                            • #29
                              I just wondered because it seems that when we watch TV videos on police brutality (just as an example) the outcome of the so-called 'investigation' ends in charges being dismissed for a variety of different technical/legal reasons. I would therefore think a judge would direct the video to an expert to assess and make recommendations at a trial.

                              So yes I guess the threat of having one's bad behavior on tape might be a deterrent should the issue not be settled. All in all this amounts to a tremendously expensive, and lengthy, process.

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