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  • #16
    Originally posted by Knowledgeable-Wizard View Post
    Bad Idea.

    I'm sure you can come up with the money. When you are bleeding through the gut paying huge amounts of spousal support, that's when you realize having a lawyer would have been a good investment.

    For example, $500 per month in spousal support over 7 years equals = $42,000.

    Now, if a lawyer can even get that down to $400 per month, over 7 years that equals $33,600. Add in the $4,000 you pay in legal fees, and you still come out ahead.
    Some people just don't have $4k up front to pay the lawyer, even if they would come out ahead in the long run.

    It's the classic dilemma of being poor. Yes, the $100 shoes would last much longer than the $10 shoes and save money in the long run, but if you only have $10, guess which shoes you have to buy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
      It's the classic dilemma of being poor. Yes, the $100 shoes would last much longer than the $10 shoes and save money in the long run, but if you only have $10, guess which shoes you have to buy.
      I was talking to somebody the other day who proudly said that he always bought cars with cash and never bought a house unless he had a 50% down payment. He said that people who borrowed money were morons.

      Further discussion revealed that his rich parents had bought him his first car and his first house. That helps a bit.

      And yes, we often say on this forum "a lawyer will save you money in the long run", but the long run is often way too long for somebody who is experiencing the worst cash crunch of their life.

      Comment


      • #18
        Thanks Everyone for the advice its always so help full and I can't thank everyone enough I really can't, I will be sending her an email indicating that she needs to prove entiltlement before anything. I just hate how these Lawyers all said to just pay her without her even proving entitlement. I'm getting stronger with this everyday. it will be 2 years as of Sept 8th that she left.

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        • #19
          I self represented and successfully won joint custody of our 4 year old. (Now 6). I think the financial side was settled reasonably too. Well I felt I paid too much but I definitely would have spent twice the amount on lawyers over the 3 years.

          One strategy on the opposing lawyer is to drag you out. Especially if the wife is on legal aid. It cost me $17,000 in the same bs. Letters, scheduled meetings and I could see how the process was grinding to a halt.

          It took an enormous amount of energy and I read a boat load of material to be prepared but I was able to do it. I think I did fairly well.

          Of course it's always better to get a lawyer. That's like saying it's better but I am not sure anyone here saying that was faced with the kind of bills you and I were facing on a limited budget. No one argus it's better but it's just simply unaffordable.

          My advice is slow the whole thing down. Time is at your advantage now. Just go ahead and get your records from the lawyer and politely let them know you are ending the relationship.

          Then file a notice of change of rep...the form is on the website here Family Law Rules Forms | Ontario Court Services. It's form 4

          You will need to fax it to the opposing side (maybe fax it to your lawyer too). I signed up for efax.ca service. It was a life saver...

          Once you faxed the notice of change of rep then you need to fill out the affidavit of service 6b. And bring along the notice you faxed and confirmation of fax sent and take it down to the court house and file it into the continuing record.

          No lie. It's all very intimidating but this kind of process you have to get use to...there is a lot of filing of documents in the process.

          But your greatest advantage now is just go quiet...let them drive the process. You are the respondent....just respond. Ignore the temptation to try and resolve this.(one advantage you have is that they file and you generally have four days to respond...you get to learn/copy their style/ process)

          Let her make her case...the burden of proof is hers.

          Comment


          • #20
            I have gone back and forth on emails with her trying to work this out , My Lawyer sent a new agreement because said our orignal was a joke.. ?? maybe it was but at the time it was all we could afford and agreed on that. All he has done was sent a new agreement and witch her lawyer responded with change request and then my Lawyer has ignored every response from her lawyer. that is all that has happened nothing but that and $4000 + thousand wasted. We have gone back and forth on emails me and her trying to end this but that is all. Like I said its been 2 years as of September 8th that we have lived apart. I spoke with Desperate Dad again and he gave some great advice like all of you have also. I am just gonna send an email idicating I'm sticking with our original agreement when spousal was not seeked and crossed out and via the email of her not wanting spousal.

            Comment


            • #21
              So ok catching up. It sounds like this hasn't even gone to court yet. Have you been served with any papers? Usually it would be a Form 8?

              And you had an agreement signed when you originally split?

              Who wrote up the agreement? Did she sign it? Did she consult with a lawyer before signing it? Was there any pressure applied to her to sign it? We're there witnesses to it being signed?

              If there is an agreement signed that says no spousal then they would likely fight you based on Miglin v Miglin. You can read about the cases that rely on it on canlii


              http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/...ocompletePos=1

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              • #22
                We bought a agreement from staples witch a mediator advised us to becasue our issue was so simple, we completed it and went to a Lawyer and had it notarized and signed by both of us in front of him. No pressure was applied at all. I also have an email from her indicating no spousal was going to be seeked , the area on the agreement were it says the husband shall pay the wife we crossed out and proceeded with the rest of the agreement.

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                • #23
                  Well it would be better if she had her own counsel but any emails indicating she understood what she was giving up would help.

                  The problem is that anyone can go to court for any reason. It doesn't have to be a good reason.

                  She can argue that she didn't fully understand what she was giving up.
                  How long ago was the contract signed?

                  If it has been two years since the contract then her window of opportunity to reverse it I believe would be shrinking.

                  Does she work? Is she paying to talk to this lawyer? If so, good because she is out of pocket the longer this goes on.

                  From my vantage point, not knowing what your financial situation is...I would offer a one time lump sum like say $6k.

                  It's an uphill battle for her to go to court. Her lawyer is telling her it's possible to overturn the agreement and it is...it's just expensive and risky for her (both of you).

                  If she has legal aid however it's most definitely going to start as an application in court. These little legal aid lawyers just keep chugging right through.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    She is working 35 hours a week at Minimum wage , she and her mom are paying her Lawyer, The agreement was made September 8th 2014 and then notarized by the Lawyer December 15th , that gave us time to seek our legal advice if we wanted. She wants $52,000 lump sum or 8 years 600.00 a month. She said her Lawyer can get me for $900.00 a month

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I don't know why you're going back and forth on it at all. Let them move it forward with a motion to change your original agreement and proof of entitlement, which may not be so easy for her since she signed off on it in your original agreement.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Exactly! Freeze your lawyer. Don't spend another cent. Just wait for them to come to you.

                        Let me tell you how this would have to go for them...they would try to send you two or three more letters. You don't have to respond.

                        Then they file a form 8 to initiate a proceedings in court. You will then write a reply. This is basically three or four pages explaining your position. (Really just stating the facts as you laid them out). Lots of help online for that.

                        Four or five months later you will be asked to go to a case conference. Nothing will happen. You stand in front of a judge and they will ask you to get some financials together...it's generally to get things in order like if assessments or appraisals will need to be ordered.

                        Then five to six months later you will go through a settlement conference. You both make offers of what you feel I s fair (haha). You might offer $15k then.

                        There may be another settlement conference ordered depending on how the judge is feeling that day. That would be scheduled out two more months later.

                        Then another four or five months after that...you might go to trial. But in 97% of cases you settle a few hours before the trial starts for something likely closer to $20k. (That's if it gets that far)

                        But your ex would have to pay a lawyer for all that time to see it through to the end. It would cost her $20-30k at a minimum. Trial generally costs $30k if you are represented by a lawyer. She has likely already spent $2-3k

                        And imagine it will take more than two years to get through all this.

                        So you can see from her vantage point, getting to the $52k is a really uphill battle with a lot of expense and stress. And she would have to win in court by convincing the court the contract she signed was not valid. Yes that is very possible but not a clinch.

                        So my advice would be to wait it out. Her lawyer is telling her that you are going to fold because you can't stand paying your lawyer and will want to resolve it quickly. But just keep your powder dry and make them push this string up hill.

                        If you want you can just try explaining all of this to her and make a formal offer of $10k now with a time limit of three weeks. If you feel like avoiding all of the crap you have to jump through above.

                        You shouldnt have to pay but it's a lot easier then stressing yourself out over court procedures.
                        Last edited by Headwaters1; 08-30-2016, 12:25 PM.

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                        • #27
                          ^ from what I've read on here over the years I think this one of the best summaries of "the process" in family court. Long process which is essentially all about lawyers making the most they can from client. Once the client is deemed to have no more money the lawyer urges client to go to parents/family for money. Once that well has dried up the matter gets settled.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks again everyone.. I once again can't stress enough how much I appreciate all of this. I would rather give my 2 daughters all the money then to Lawyers. I love my girls and I have them 50% of the time if not more and I can't have this stressing me as much as it does because it effects me. They can see I'm not the same some days. I will keep everyone posted on the progress.

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                            • #29
                              Morn.

                              Headwaters summed it up pretty accurately. The case conferences etc.

                              I look back and still can't believe I took them seriously. I.e. presumed something actually happens. Really, one party says one thing....the other party says another extreme (perhaps polar opposites) the judge gives you a view, possibly based on the sleep they had the night before. You don't agree....next.

                              That cost 5k. This excludes the time (of course day dreaming that something useful happens at them lol)

                              Just drag it out. A lawyer would easily eat up any hopeful gains she would hope to get.


                              As a sub note...The waste in the system is crazy. I have never heard of another profession system that allows for this.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                                ^ from what I've read on here over the years I think this one of the best summaries of "the process" in family court. Long process which is essentially all about lawyers making the most they can from client. Once the client is deemed to have no more money the lawyer urges client to go to parents/family for money. Once that well has dried up the matter gets settled.
                                Unless they file a motion... Then you have a problem.

                                Comment

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