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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #1  
Old 01-28-2022, 08:00 PM
audible audible is offline
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Default Spousal Support

Hey all,

Question about SS from my situation. The wife just sent me an email today outlying what she will be looking for with our separation agreement.

Our situation. Together 11 years. Married 7.5. No kids (I have one 50% of the time from a previous relationship, 14 years old), no home, no assets, no savings. We rent. We have our own bank accounts, our own car payments. Everything we do/did was for ourselves. She even left in Aug 2019 saying we were done, but came back a week later "to find herself", and nothing changed. It was not your typical marriage.

We still live in the same rented home. I e-transfer her half the rent every month, always have. She writes the rent cheque. She pays heat and hydro, I pay car insurance and Rogers. I don't even know how much the bills are, nor does she. We have just always done it this way. We buy our own groceries and personal stuff.

I have been sleeping in the basement since 2017 (long story and circumstances), but we do not even share a bed together. We basically lived together for convenience sake, do not go to family gatherings, social events, vacations etc.

When I see stuff like this from all Ontario sites for SS:

You will need to demonstrate at least one of the following:

You had responsibilities during the relationship that prevented you from building your own career, such as taking care of children or helping your spouse build their career.

Your separation or divorce left you in need of financial support and the other spouse has enough income and assets to pay support.

You have a legal agreement that says you will get spousal support if you separate.


I ask will she be able to get spousal support from me?
Together this long we never even knew how much each other made until today. I just found out her income because she asked for mine for the separation agreement.

i make $82000
She makes $46000

under the circumstances, our living styles, our income and no assets or savings, what are the chances of paying support?

Edit: She has always worked and nothing prevented her of a better career.

Thanks all, have a great weekend.

Last edited by audible; 01-28-2022 at 08:02 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 01-29-2022, 11:11 AM
paris paris is offline
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Did she ask for spousal? I don’t know the legalities, but I feel like you wouldn’t be paying.

What you’ve posted here tells me you would also never get child support from her for your 14 year old. I was shocked you even considered that.

It sounds like your relationship has been over for a very long time, and the sooner you finalize it the better. This cannot be good for your relationship with your child.
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Old 01-29-2022, 11:49 AM
audible audible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris View Post
What you’ve posted here tells me you would also never get child support from her for your 14 year old. I was shocked you even considered that.
My apologies, with my other thread. I absolutely would not ask for child support. It was more a question to see if I have the right to mention it because she wants spousal support when she is already self efficient. More of a curiosity question to see what everything is going to be put on the table during "negotiations".

I agree with spousal support in most circumstances, but I have a hard time understanding and believing I would need to pay spousal support under our circumstances.
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Old 02-01-2022, 01:30 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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You need to verify your date of separation. Is it 2017?
You will be paying spousal support for some amount of time, you were married.

Figuring out how much can be tricky, it is also tax deductible. How much does she want?
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:09 PM
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Offhand, it does not sound like you should be liable to pay spousal support. As you pointed out, if she did not sacrifice her career at any point, then the only way she qualifies for SS is on a needs basis, and her salary is not so low that needs are going to be a strong factor.

That said, I would consider offering a lump sum payment of spousal support in your offer to settle. Offer $5,000 as a lump sum payment of all spousal support obligations. Make sure this offer is in an offer to settle, so it doesn't get brought up in court.

If it gets to court, your position will be that she is not entitled to SS at all.

Weird stuff sometimes happens with spousal support though, and I think it would be worth $5k to avoid that risk.
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkHouses View Post
You need to verify your date of separation. Is it 2017?
You will be paying spousal support for some amount of time, you were married.

Figuring out how much can be tricky, it is also tax deductible. How much does she want?
Thanks for your reply.

Based on my research and review, I am actually going to try and contest the date of separation to 2017. I have texts and such from years ago that prove our relationship has always been "friends" and that she left and came back in 2019.

That's the thing, just because I was married I don't think I should be paying spousal support in our circumstance/relationship. The only thing I see if possible is if this is decided to be a "difference in income". No other, I don't think she can demonstrate why else and I believe she is self sufficient always having a full time job and 2 diplomas, one of which was obtained with money I gave her from an inheritance during our marriage. And nothing is preventing her from staying at this income level, there are jobs out there I would presume for a business college diploma.

I just have a hard time grasping paying her with all we went through being physically separated for 5 years and no one sacrificed anything for anyone, while we have always had out own money and never shared anything.
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Offhand, it does not sound like you should be liable to pay spousal support. As you pointed out, if she did not sacrifice her career at any point, then the only way she qualifies for SS is on a needs basis, and her salary is not so low that needs are going to be a strong factor.

That said, I would consider offering a lump sum payment of spousal support in your offer to settle. Offer $5,000 as a lump sum payment of all spousal support obligations. Make sure this offer is in an offer to settle, so it doesn't get brought up in court.

If it gets to court, your position will be that she is not entitled to SS at all.

Weird stuff sometimes happens with spousal support though, and I think it would be worth $5k to avoid that risk.
Thanks for the reply.

I agree there is not much "need". The issue with a lump sum, is I have no savings to do this, I am in a consumer proposal and have no credit and would probably not qualify a loan.

I want to agree I should not be liable and she is self sufficient and does not have to "get back on her feet"

This just screams of a going away payday to me based on my research. Which is why I like to have everyone's opinions or experience.
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:49 PM
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I can't edit the first post.

I had the cohabitation date incorrect. We were actually together 9 years 6 months, not 11 years, if we go by the Jan 1 2022 date of separation, which I'd like to contest based on living in a basement since 2017 and basically just doing our own thing - solo, not as a family, or socially etc.
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Old 02-02-2022, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audible View Post
I agree there is not much "need". The issue with a lump sum, is I have no savings to do this, I am in a consumer proposal and have no credit and would probably not qualify a loan.
Do you guys own or rent your house?

Do you have a car? Does she have a car?

Quote:
This just screams of a going away payday to me based on my research.
Spousal support in your situation is wrong, but that does not mean that it won't be ordered anyway. Unfortunately, there is a gender bias in the family courts, and it is best to settle before a trial if possible.

How about $500/month for the next 12 months? I still like the lump sum better, but $500/month for a year is actually cheaper once the tax implications are taken into account.

She's making half your salary, her life will still suck relative to yours even if she gets the completely undeserved $5000 departure bonus.
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:20 AM
audible audible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Do you guys own or rent your house?

Do you have a car? Does she have a car?



Spousal support in your situation is wrong, but that does not mean that it won't be ordered anyway. Unfortunately, there is a gender bias in the family courts, and it is best to settle before a trial if possible.

How about $500/month for the next 12 months? I still like the lump sum better, but $500/month for a year is actually cheaper once the tax implications are taken into account.

She's making half your salary, her life will still suck relative to yours even if she gets the completely undeserved $5000 departure bonus.
We rent a place, same house since we moved in and got married. split bills from our own accounts, no joint account, no assistance of each other. I e-transfer her half every month, she writes the check for the rent.

We both own our own cars. She pays for hers, i pay for mine, from each others accounts, where we both have never shared finances. A year and a half ago, she traded in her small car for a 2019 Sentra, payments went up, but never asked me for a penny and pays on her own, even the difference for the "upgrade".

We do not have 1 joint asset or debt.

$500 a month seems steep when I live paycheck to paycheck. I will have to get a big enough apartment for my daughter and I (who she is not the mother) and have obligations of previous offset CS and high section 7 expenses with her in ringette etc

There are way more circumstances that I will bring to the table as well, but even "needs' vs "means", I have a hard time grasping. But again, it's not my opinion or facts, it's the law?!?

Lastly, she is more educated than I am. She has a diploma in massage therapy, which she "retired" from but can still work, and a college diploma in business. So in my opinion, she's not only self sufficient, but her income capacity and potential is not limited.

This college diploma was paid with cash by me 9 years ago from money I received from my grandmothers inheritance. I "sacrificed" a down payment on a home for us, so she could go to school. She worked full time while doing the schooling. But again with a 2nd diploma, paid by me, I feel she is in a better spot too.
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