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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 06-02-2022, 01:51 PM
SugarMom SugarMom is offline
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Default Starting Child support Question

Hello there. I have been separated (never married) for ten years now. Custody and time was shared and no child support or spousal support was paid. Children (Ages 12 to 17) are older, and two years ago they all moved in with me full time.

I recently asked their father to help with the finances, and he flat out refused, saying that I stole the kids from him. (Not that it matters, but I have been trying to restore the 50/50 schedule to no avail, the kids are not interested. It has been a difficult two years for me though).

I have decided to file for child support. I cannot afford a lawyer but this seems like something I can do myself. Some questions.

1> Our separation agreement was not filed. I can file it with a Form 26, but since it does not have any support provisions, does it matter?

2> If I am going to file our agreement, does it matter if I file with the OCJ or the superior court?

3> Do I proceed via a Form 15 (motion to change)? If so, it seems I just submit 15 and 15A. Is there any other form I would need?

4> My ex refuses to tell me his income and has not filed his taxes since we separated. On Form 15 it asks me to state ex's income, do I just make up a number?

5> Form 15 also asks for the court date, how do I get a court date before I submit the form?

6> I assume I have to serve my ex, is there a specific form for that?

Thank you all so much!
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  #2  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:08 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
I have decided to file for child support. I cannot afford a lawyer but this seems like something I can do myself. Some questions.
I dont know if your kids are 12 & 17 now or were but keep in mind cs is only payable for a child under 18 and in school full time. If they are over 18 and not in school full time, they arent eligible for support.

Added to that, if they are in school he will be responsible for a portion of school expenses.

You will also need to outline what caused the material change and what you have done to address the current situation. In the sense of both children have chosen to live with me full time due to blah blah blah. I continue to support and encourage the kids to spend time with their father however they have remained with me on a full time basis. (Or something like that)

You may want to consider if you owe him any offset support. You dont know his income so that will have to wait. Just be prepared.

Finally, better gird yourself to ignore him as it will get ugly. CS is the right of the child though so he has no leg to stand on especially if there is a valid reason for the kids to stay with you full time.

Quote:
1> Our separation agreement was not filed. I can file it with a Form 26, but since it does not have any support provisions, does it matter?
You may not need to file it yet. It would become part of your motion to change though and you would reference the clause that discussed support if there was one.

Quote:
> Do I proceed via a Form 15 (motion to change)? If so, it seems I just submit 15 and 15A. Is there any other form I would need?
Those would be the ones and within them you will ask for not only an order for support but also an order for income disclosure. That may also require an form 20 but he will have to file a financial statement in response so you may not need to get that order at this time.

Quote:
4> My ex refuses to tell me his income and has not filed his taxes since we separated. On Form 15 it asks me to state ex's income, do I just make up a number?
You put in unknown. In your accompanying affidavit you outline that income information was never exchanged as there were no previous orders for support. Due to the kids moving in full time, you are now seeking support.

Quote:
5> Form 15 also asks for the court date, how do I get a court date before I submit the form?
You get that at the courthouse. They give you the date and sign all your papers and then you send him the copies.

Quote:
6> I assume I have to serve my ex, is there a specific form for that?
You serve him the forms (CHECK ON THIS AS THERE IS A PROPER WAY TO SERVE HIM) and then file an affidavit of service.


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  #3  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:26 PM
SugarMom SugarMom is offline
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I don�t know if your kids are 12 & 17 now or were but keep in mind cs is only payable for a child under 18 and in school full time. If they are over 18 and not in school full time, they aren�t eligible for support.
They are 12, 14, and 17 now.

Quote:
Added to that, if they are in school he will be responsible for a portion of school expenses.

You will also need to outline what caused the material change and what you have done to address the current situation. In the sense of both children have chosen to live with me full time due to blah blah blah. I continue to support and encourage the kids to spend time with their father however they have remained with me on a full time basis. (Or something like that)
Where is this outlined? Is this all in form 15A? Do I have to give the details right away or is that only when (if) we get to a trial? I'm mostly hoping to scare him into settling. I'm willing to go to trial, but I would prefer to avoid it.

Quote:
You may want to consider if you owe him any offset support. You don�t know his income so that will have to wait. Just be prepared.
How far back can that go ( a request to pay him offset support)? How far back can my request for support go? During the last two years, would we be looking at offset even though they were living with me full time? In other words, do the courts look at the agreement or reality?

Quote:
Finally, better gird yourself to ignore him as it will get ugly. CS is the right of the child though so he has no leg to stand on especially if there is a valid reason for the kids to stay with you full time.
I assume it will be ugly, which is why I tried to negotiate with him first. Unfortunately, it appears that he will not do anything willingly.

Quote:
You may not need to file it yet. It would become part of your motion to change though and you would reference the clause that discussed support if there was one.


Those would be the ones and within them you will ask for not only an order for support but also an order for income disclosure. That may also require an form 20 but he will have to file a financial statement in response so you may not need to get that order at this time.
That was not a specific element of the form. Do you mean I include the request for income disclosure as part of the "other orders I want the court to make"?

Quote:
You put in unknown. In your accompanying affidavit you outline that income information was never exchanged as there were no previous orders for support. Due to the kids moving in full time, you are now seeking support.
The affidavit is part of the 15A, is that correct?

Quote:
You get that at the courthouse. They give you the date and sign all your papers and then you send him the copies.
This may sound like a silly question, but how does that work? Do I walk in with my papers, walk up to the window and say "Please sign these and give me a court date"?

Quote:
You serve him the forms (CHECK ON THIS AS THERE IS A PROPER WAY TO SERVE HIM) and then file an affidavit of service.


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Is there a form for the affidavit of service? I must have missed it.
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Old 06-02-2022, 02:59 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
They are 12, 14, and 17 now.

Where is this outlined? Is this all in form 15A? Do I have to give the details right away or is that only when (if) we get to a trial? I'm mostly hoping to scare him into settling. I'm willing to go to trial, but I would prefer to avoid it.
Most people do not go to trial over something like this because it is stupid. The rules are laid out, disclose income and pay support.
Maybe he wants to scare you as well....being considerate and taking emotions our helps things.
There is more than the 15A form. Go to the court house and they will give you all the forms to fill out. There are maybe 6 different ones.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
How far back can that go ( a request to pay him offset support)? How far back can my request for support go? During the last two years, would we be looking at offset even though they were living with me full time? In other words, do the courts look at the agreement or reality?
Apparently the Supreme Court says 3 years.


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Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
I assume it will be ugly, which is why I tried to negotiate with him first. Unfortunately, it appears that he will not do anything willingly.
There will be mediation services available at the court house and attempting to mediate after you file the paper work is a requirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
That was not a specific element of the form. Do you mean I include the request for income disclosure as part of the "other orders I want the court to make"?
When serving the other paper work also serve a Form 20 asking for his Tax Assessments for the last 3 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
The affidavit is part of the 15A, is that correct?
An affidavit is an affidavit.
You do not require one to file. Simply fill out the paperwork, there is a section that asks you why you want this change.
There is also another one that asks exactly what changes you want. You won't know numbers of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
This may sound like a silly question, but how does that work? Do I walk in with my papers, walk up to the window and say "Please sign these and give me a court date"?
Basically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
Is there a form for the affidavit of service? I must have missed it.
Yes. It is form 6B.
It must go from one persons hand to the person being served.
Do not serve it yourself!
The clerks can help you with questions and documentation on how to serve the person.
Here is a link to the forms: http://ontariocourtforms.on.ca/en/fa...w-rules-forms/

You will fill out the paperwork.
File it, a clerk will check it for completeness but they are not responsible for mistakes.
Serve it.
Fill out the affidavit of service and file that.

Be nice.

Last edited by pinkHouses; 06-02-2022 at 03:02 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2022, 03:13 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarMom View Post
They are 12, 14, and 17 now.
All eligible for support!

Quote:
Where is this outlined? Is this all in form 15A? Do I have to give the details right away or is that only when (if) we get to a trial? I'm mostly hoping to scare him into settling. I'm willing to go to trial, but I would prefer to avoid it.
I had to go look at the updated form 15 as my husband's was from a few years ago. The old one said what other orders but this one doesn't seem to have it. In the income area you will put "to be determined" and then attach an affidavit outlining that you requested his income and he refused. Attach any written correspondence on it as an exhibit.

In your affidavit you will outline when the circumstances changed and why. For instance, "On March 1, 2020, all three children returned to my home on a full time basis. Despite my repeated encouragement that they spend equal time with the Respondent, all three children have remained living in my home on a full time basis since that time. Therefore I am requesting child support in the table amount for three children based on the Respondent's income beginning September 1, 2020." As an aside, the kids do get to make a choice on their own BUT their dad can dispute it and the judge may question it. If it's simply a case of "dad won't let me play xbox until midnight" versus "dad smacked me across the face and told me I was stupid" there could be questions. I'm just spitballing here but your ex will put up a fight.

Trials aren't so bad and you're self repped. This is pretty straight forward. I wouldn't be scared. He owes the kids support. Period.

Quote:
How far back can that go (a request to pay him offset support)? How far back can my request for support go? During the last two years, would we be looking at offset even though they were living with me full time? In other words, do the courts look at the agreement or reality?
This one is a little tricky. Many people on here will say "give them six months before asking for support" and if it's been several years you could either subtract that six months or leave it. There is also the question of when you asked for support. If the kids came back to you two years ago and you didn't ask him until last year, you could go back six months after they started living with you full time and leave it at that. Otherwise you would realistically ask for the time when you first asked him. The supreme court says three years for people who know they owe support but you guys didn't have it in your order and therefore didn't think it was an issue. Teenagers eat a lot and use a lot of water and electricity. It's fair to ask for some help.

You also don't know what his income was so that's hard to determine. I'm just saying when he tells you (if he discloses--which he is legally obligated to do) then you can calculate and put it in an offer. As in "based on the parties' incomes dating to 2019, the Applicant should have paid off set support in the amount of xyz. Therefore the Applicant offers to pay the Respondent/subtract this amount from the total owing by the Respondent."

Quote:
I assume it will be ugly, which is why I tried to negotiate with him first. Unfortunately, it appears that he will not do anything willingly.
Some people are difficult. Let him go to a lawyer and drop a $5000 retainer for service which will be used by the first appearance, once he's told he will have to pay, you might be able to settle on a set amount. You WILL need an order for school expenses though and it's best to get that in the order you are seeking now.

Quote:
That was not a specific element of the form. Do you mean I include the request for income disclosure as part of the "other orders I want the court to make"?
It's in the other orders part. You ask for proof of his income dating back to 2018 or when the kids chose to be with you full time.

Quote:
The affidavit is part of the 15A, is that correct?
Things have changed with COVID, you may be able to include an affidavit, you may not. Someone else may provide input.

Quote:
This may sound like a silly question, but how does that work? Do I walk in with my papers, walk up to the window and say "Please sign these and give me a court date"?
From what I understand you go in to the counter and tell them you are filing a motion to change and need a first appearance date. They give that to you at the bottom of the forms, you all sign, then you copy all of those signed forms to serve your ex.

Quote:
Is there a form for the affidavit of service? I must have missed it.
Affidavit of Service
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