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  • Question about custody, he left, can he do this?

    My husband left in October. We have 2 small children. And we're going to do things amicably... HA! I am now seeing it will only be amicable if I do things the way he wants! We agreed to give mediation a try, but haven't done so yet.

    We live about 1/2 hr out of Ottawa in a nice home with 2 little children. Basically my options suck, either I buy a crap shak in a crap town and live very tight or rent an apt again, in a town I don't want to be in.

    My solution at this point is to take the kids and go live with my mom until we can get sorted and I can figure out what I am going to do and get on our feet.

    Things have happened way faster than I had anticipated, I got a job and start very soon. My plan is to let the kids finish out their school until Christmas where we are. Then move in to the city and they can start a new school.

    He is very upset about this and says I have no right to remove them from the school they are in. He will take them the next 6 months and I can come visit and have every other weekend.

    Ummmm, no, I am NOT abandoning my children, they have never been away from me and I have serious concerns about what that would do to them if I left them. He's the one who wanted to break up the family, he left and has been out of the house.

    Does he have a right to tell me I can't take the children? We will literally be a 1/2 hr away from our current home and he work across the street from where we will be living 4-5 days a week. It would be no inconveniance for him to see the kids. He's a good dad and loves his kids and I by no means want to keep them from him. But can he legally hold me back from moving them and starting them in a new school in January?

    Do I really require interim child custody to do this? Please help, I need this sorted asap and need to know if he has a leg to stand on. I have been the primary care giver and have remained so while he's been gone.

  • #2
    Both of you have an equal place in the childrens' lives, both of you are important to them, both of you have concerns what it would do them if you were ripped out of their lives.

    I realize that you are upset and scared and angry and I do not doubt you husband has been a jerk in this. But just as much as you are afraid of abandoning them, he is afraid of you abducting them.

    He will have a lawyer and will fight like mad and they will make every argument possible. So he will argue that they have a home and roots in the community, they have friends in the school and the neighbourhood, and they are already upset enough and will be devastated by further disruption in their lives. He will argue that moving to your mom's is only in your interest and not theirs, and that you are acting selfishly. He will argue that taking them out of school halfway through the year will make things worse for them. He will will argue that you are doing this suddenly with so little notice.

    While you say that he will be amicable only when you do things he wants, he is saying right now to his lawyer that you are taking the children and running off with them.

    I am not taking sides here. He has strong arguments that the court will listen to. He will probably seek an emergency motion to stop you, because once you leave with them he will have no chance to ever get them back. As much as you don't trust him right now, he does not trust you either. This is the way of the world.

    A mediator would not take sides, and would very very likely say not to do this.

    When you describe your options of living in a rental or buying a crap shack, you don't say that your option is to stay with the kids in the nice home you have now? This should be a possibilty, maybe you have financial issues, but staying in place gives you the strongest argument to keep the kids in a stable environment.

    If you take them you are treading on dangerous ground.

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    • #3
      Well I can't financially keep the house, I would love to. He would like that too, but unfortunately I can't swing it and he couldn't swing it to make it happen and be on his own too.

      Like I said, our separation is fairly new and this has happened way faster than I had anticipated. The plan was for the kids and I to stay here for a few months and work on a plan. I tried. The plan that allows me to be out on my own right now leaves me about $200 a month to put clothes on me, the kids, hair cuts, emergency money, oil changes, entertainment, etc. Not really a quality of life I want for myself or my kids. Plus, I feel really rushed in to making a decision ie. buying a home that I don't feel prepared to do just yet.

      Honestly, I get that he doesn't want to see them change schools. I hate that too and wish things were different. But I didn't choose this for us either. He wanted me to start making plans, so I did. He was fine with me taking a job in Ottawa until he found out that I'm not making a lot more money than I currently am. So it makes me wonder if he's really cheesed that with this new job, it's also not going to be reducing his CS amounts. Which we still have yet to agree upon everything.

      I am really not doing this to hurt the kids or him, but I just feel really stuck. I have no support system where I am, but I do in Ottawa. He will have the kids a couple days during the week and every second weekend. Like I said, he literally works across the street, so it wouldn't be an inconvenience for him to get them in to school or pick them up after.

      They are 4 & 5 and yes, it sucks having to change schools. But it's not out of lack of caring or being selfish. I just can't leave my kids. What does that say to them if I abandon them? And what if after 6 months he decides he likes that and then keeps them and decides they in fact can't come to the city. I'm scared that if I do this, this sets status quo.

      It's really not an unreasonable distance away from where they are now. And why does he get to make all the decisions? He's decided he needs to find his happiness. I can't financially keep the house. So becasue he wants things to end and for me to be out, I have to rush into a home I don't want to be in because the kids are in a school here? He may not be able to keep the house either and we may have to sell in the spring anyways depending on SS & CS, then where does that leave the kids????

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      • #4
        By the way, I am appreciating your points of view. I really am trying to be reasonable and understanding of his views too.

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        • #5
          Momma, unless and until a court orders that one of you has full custody, you both have legal custody, meaning guardianship and legal decision making. That is why he "gets to make decisions". He has every much right to take the kids and move them to Toronto or Vancouver.. That is, none. You would veto that.

          You ask, what will stop him from keeping the kids full time and not letting you have them in Ottawa? He is asking the same thing about you right now, what will stop you from letting him have the kids when it is his turn?

          Is there some reason why you should work full time and have custody and he just has visits? Why not he have custody and you have visits? You are already one or two steps ahead of him. This is very frightening for him too.

          Equality would mean you have the kids 50/50, or close to that. You are not asking or expecting an equal situation, but according to you he is only worried about child support. Maybe that is the case. But a parent can care deeply about their children, have their best interests at heart, and still worry about finances.

          Again, I am not taking sides here, and I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, I am preparing you for the arguments you will get if you go through with this. If he becomes amicable about this and agrees to the move and the weekend schedule, then you should count your blessings because I can guarentee if the situation were reversed you would not agree to that.

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          • #6
            I just want to add, I stayed in my marriage for years longer than I should have, because I ddn't want to be with my children 20%, or 40% or 60%, I wanted to be with them 100%. When we finally decided to split, we agreed to stay both within the school district so we both could be with them as much as possible and involved in their lives. We have them each within 60/40, I see them for at least some time every day of the week.

            I'm not saying this to convince you it's better, I'm saying it to expose my bias. I would be terrified if my ex was doing what you are doing.

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            • #7
              just a thought. Considering the upheavel in the kids lives with the marriage breakup, is it not better to keep them in the same school so they have something that is a constant in their lives. The stress of changing schools is a big one, I know I went through it. No one would think that you are abandoning your kids by leaving them with the father so they can stay in the same school.

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              • #8
                Mess has given you very good advice. If you move the kids, you face the very real possability of a judge awarding you less time with the kids than you currently have. It is also quite possible a judge may award the Dad full custody as a result. Be very carefull how you proceed.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mess View Post
                  I just want to add, I stayed in my marriage for years longer than I should have, because I ddn't want to be with my children 20%, or 40% or 60%, I wanted to be with them 100%. When we finally decided to split, we agreed to stay both within the school district so we both could be with them as much as possible and involved in their lives. We have them each within 60/40, I see them for at least some time every day of the week.

                  I'm not saying this to convince you it's better, I'm saying it to expose my bias. I would be terrified if my ex was doing what you are doing.

                  You... are the man.
                  I'm pleased to see a Dad that has such stron opinions about his children. I commend you, and wish whole heartedly that me and my ex can get to a point where we can work things out like you have.
                  Kudo's to both you and your ex for putting the children first.

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                  • #10
                    I just wanted to thank you for your advise. Of course, it wasn't what I wanted to hear But it was helpful. You helped me understand that just as I have my fear, so does my soon to be ex. And I realized that I was not being open with him in communication.

                    We have it sorted now. He is ok with the kids coming with me now. I did have some pretty big reasons in why this wasn't something that could wait, which I will not bore you with the details. But he now understands, which how could he initially, I didn't verbalize them. Now to my defense, everything came up within a matter of 2 days, but still. He freaked, understandably, then I freaked... and your advise helped me look at his from a different perspective and see what he saw.

                    I think in what you had to say, it did really open my eyes up to the fact that communication and trust is essential for our parenting relationship to work.

                    He really is a reasonable person, as am I. Quite honestly, the forum scares the bejesus out of me, I hope to God mediation works for us! Luckily, we don't have much money to fight about either

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                    • #11
                      Momma, just wanted to say that I applaud you for thinking of both sides and being able to come to a agreement with you children's father with out having to head down the the extremely adversarial road of court, this is rare when people are in the emotional state that we find ourselves at during the stage you are at now. Not sure I would have agreed to the move but that fact that you were able to reach an agreement between yourselves is great.

                      Good luck to you!
                      Last edited by today; 12-06-2009, 09:58 PM.

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                      • #12
                        glad to see that you and he were able to work together on it. Remember to keep the lines of communication open when it concerns the kids, try to understand where each is coming from and do not turn every decision into a battle. Good luck

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                        • #13
                          What AWESOME parents!!! :-)

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