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  • Taken to court over School choice

    Hi Everyone,

    I've talked about this in a response in another post, but it has just elevated, so I thought I would create a new post for my particular situation.

    My ex is French, I am English (speaking only). We live in QC now, but will be moving separately to Ottawa in April. I am essentially following her, as she is moving in with the new beau an hour away. We have a 3 year old and the ex is adamant that he go to all French school. If still together and in QC, he would be going to French school.

    So, I am not comfortable about not being involved in my son's education, being able to read and sign school documents, know what's going on, etc. The ex tells me that that's ridiculous because it's for kindergarten, and that if I really want to know something, I can contact the school directly. But my concern also stems from a parenting perspective and being there for my son and helping him with his education, development, etc. He actually has called me "dumb" because I don't speak French - he knows not what he says, but right now is completely bilingual.

    It gets real nasty, but I suggested sending him to a French immersion school, but apparently, that's not good enough. She says she will fight me on this one and take me to court. Can she do that? And what would a judge say? And finally, in cases like this, how does it come to a decision when both parents are at a stalemate.?

    Thanks for your help

  • #2
    Sounds like a very good case of parental alienation to me.By taking English out of the equation entirely she is trying to cut you completely out of your sons life.When she threatens court don't be afraid.Its just bullying.She moved to Ontario to be with her boyfriend .You followed to be near your son.She now is trying to break down your relationship with your son by sending to an all French school, while she is bilingual.

    How would this look in court?Well with a judge with any iota of common sense ,this would look awful. Does your ex speak French only, with your son?

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you aware of Canlii.org? You can search previous court cases about this.

      Here is just one where the judge said the boy could attend English school because it did not mean he wouldn't be educated in French at home and thus become bilingual.

      Section 13 sounds like your situation.

      CanLII - 2002 BCSC 910 (CanLII)

      You can search canlii by putting french school custody in the search engine there and read the rest of the cases. There are a few.

      I hope that helps to relieve your mind. Find cases that are most similar to yours.

      Comment


      • #4
        What is your custody situation? What does your agreement say?

        Speaking from experience if the child is going to be bilingual it is MUCH MUCH better for the child to be in a French school from the start. Your child will be surrounded by English people and media many hours of the day and without serious dedicated effort it is hard to teach them French.

        I don't know if you are familiar with education in Ontario vs Quebec but most of the French teachers (even immersion programs) in Ontario are extremely poor and will not result in good bilingualism. I know because I was born in Montreal and moved to Ontario at age 13 so I saw both sides of the French education between provinces. The french I was speaking in Grade 2 in Montreal was the standard expected of a grade 8 student in French immersion in Ontario. It's that bad.

        Even in a French school with bilingual parents, my new partner's children differ on their French proficiency; One prefers to speak French more than English but is well versed in both, the other one prefers English and is not as good in French as his sister. They both go to the same school. We speak French to them most of the time at home. I'm Anglophone but bilingual enough to get by with the kids

        So in this case, personally I feel your ex is on the right track. It is a huge advantage in life/school/career to be as bilingual as possible.

        If you're concerned about school communications you can always speak to the staff and teachers. They are all bilingual.

        Comment


        • #5
          Fightingforfamily,

          I agreed for our son to go to French school when we were in Quebec (and together). It was her decision to leave our family and move to Ontario with her new boyfriend months after leaving (nice!). So she took the French out, but again, I'm compromising in that he go to immersion. She is French and can talk to him in French any time she wants. From what I've heard, the ON French schools and immersion are not at as good as QC. But that was her decision.

          But for me . . I want to make sure that I'm involved in his education, help out when I can, help with homework if necessary, go on school trips, understand dialogue from the school, etc, etc, etc. everything that I would not be able to do in a French school.

          Comment


          • #6
            another thing to consider is that your child will speak French at his mothers house, so why not learn French yourself? Show your kid that you are going up and beyond the call of duty and are learning a new language because that language is part of your kids life.

            Comment


            • #7
              Because I'm a busy executive that is more math and science oriented (a skill my ex cannot help him with) than language oriented. So time is at a premium for me. I'm getting the sense that people here are suporting the decision to put him into full time French school rather than immersion. Is there no weight in the system given to my ability to support his education (as a science / math / tech person)? The ability to go on school trips with him, to help him with his homework (even if it is grammer, etc, etc). I would think that the language issue would be less so than the ability for a single father to support his children's academic career. And again . . he would be going to French immersion.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am the French parent, my ex is English. Kids are all going to French language school and it is working just fine. They are fully bilingual and successful. Math is Math inEnglish of French. Then they can translate to him if they need help...but have learned to be very independent. The ex has been very supportive of the kids staying in French. I would see it as an advantage if your child goes to French school.

                Comment


                • #9
                  PS strangely, many parents have managed (I don't know how)to put their kid in the French Language school...although they don't themselves speak French!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pidge123 View Post
                    Because I'm a busy executive.
                    I too was a busy executive but realized that being a single parent required me to re-evaluate my lifestyle, chose my child over my career. At the end of the day you are going to have to decide what sacrifices you are able and willing to make for your child. One thing there is tons of is time, it is how we use that time is the trick.

                    You can fight tooth and nail with the ex on what school he goes too, you may win or you may lose. It all depends how much money you want to spend in court and what the likely outcome will be. You will require strong factual evidence to support your claims on why immersion is better for the child, not better for you.

                    If your ex is non-negotiable and won't even consider immersion as an option, then don't even try to convince her, you will have to convince a judge. And at the end of the day is it worth the headache of court? Only you can decide that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would think even if your son goes to an all French school you can still get involved. We live in Canada after all. If you show up to volunteer for a field trip or attend a parent teacher interview and speak English to the teacher or other students can it even be possible they won't understand English? I'm doubtful.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In French School Boards, you are not allowed to speak english to kids when helping out on a school trip - unless they are short of French-speaking volunteers. You will probably get the evil eye when you speak english at parent council meetings, and they will speak back to you in french. Unless you have a real-time translator with you, you will not be able to get involved in council. You will be asking teachers, principal to make special efforts to hep you out -- and you can guess that not all of them are so happy about that, given their workload.
                        Even in French Immersion though, you will have a challenge with homework.
                        Google translate helps with the volume of info that is sent via email ... but often the text cannot be copied/pasted i.e. the documents are 'images', and google translate is only reliable for 'basic', 'non-idiomatic' french.
                        Last edited by dinkyface; 01-24-2013, 01:18 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oink View Post
                          It's not so much them not speaking English, it's them willing to 'conform' to your speaking of English to them. Anyone that has spent time in the Ottawa / Gatineau area can vouch for this

                          I always started with my not so fluent French as an ice-breaker, and it worked for me. It's not just in Canada, you get this in France, Austria, Spain and Germany from personal experience
                          Right, but as far as I am aware the official languages of those countries are not French AND English, are they?

                          I've often volunteered in my kids school and sure in JK and SK they get a ton of volunteers but by the time they are in 4th grade+ they are grateful to have anyone show up. I have literally had my DDs teacher call me day of and tell me that if they didn't have at least one parent show up they couldn't go swimming. So of course I went.

                          I have a hard time believing teachers are going to be openly hostile to you when all you are trying to do is being a loving caring involved parent.

                          It's of course the OP choice how he wants to handle things but don't let the school your children attend prevent you from being involved.

                          The upside is if your ex chose this school to exclude you from being involved then her little plan would've backfired on her, wouldn't it?

                          Be there for everything. If your schedule allows it volunteer in the classroom and on field trips. You will never regret it. You will know all your kids friends and you will know all about what's going on in their lives.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Perhaps the anti-english sentiment is not so strong in Ottawa, as in the anglo-town where I live. The French school board here spends so much effort to carve out a 'french island', and board officials are VERY resistant to any english encroachments, even when it is clear that english is the common language e.g. in council meetings, and when individual parents are OK with it. BUT, perhaps it will be easier for you in Ottawa, because French is on more of an even footing.

                            Comment

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