Originally posted by MS Mom
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FRO/Statement of Arrears
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I heard from FROstrating. The mod said that if theres a % in the agreement they will attempt to collect that. If he disputes it they will go back and tell the recipient that they cannot calculate the new % so they will require a new court order. Which is actually in his best interest since the part on university expenses is ambiguous "after a reasonable contribution from the child". How does FRO determine what a reasonable contribution is? But he has sent off a notarized letter about his unemployment which they asked for.
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Originally posted by rockscan View PostI heard from FROstrating. The mod said that if theres a % in the agreement they will attempt to collect that. If he disputes it they will go back and tell the recipient that they cannot calculate the new % so they will require a new court order. Which is actually in his best interest since the part on university expenses is ambiguous "after a reasonable contribution from the child". How does FRO determine what a reasonable contribution is? But he has sent off a notarized letter about his unemployment which they asked for.
If there is a % in the agreement, ie 60% then it's a quick calculation to determine shares, but if the agreement states proportionate to income, and there is a dispute on the percentages, FRO can't collect because they don't settle disputes.
I wouldn't get too hung up on percentages. When the judge calculated my ex's share of orthodontics she used:
His 2013 Income, and
My 2014 income (not even earned yet).
I started a new position the month before I was in court and the judge used that new income moving forward, even though I wouldn't earn that income in 2014 (got a raise with the new job). The difference between my actual 2013 income and the income she used is about $8000. I've since lost that job and am now unemployed.
Apples to Apples doesn't seem to matter to much to the judges.
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Yes he gets that. But since that agreement was signed, his ex's income has gone up $15000 reducing the proportionate share. As for university costs, they worked it out in the agreement they both signed that the kids would contribute. She agreed to that and signed so as he said, if a judge has to order it, fine. Hes been trying to discuss this with her for over a year now and up until three months ago it was "we'll worry about it when the time comes". Now the time has come and she just wants FRO to deal with it. But theres so much more: their joint RESP, bursaries, awards, OSAP etc.
He will agree to the 26% since its only 5% more than actual figures but when it comes to the university costs, they agreed in the divorce their kids would contribute so she cant just submit all of it without considering that (in his opinion).
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They agreed the kids would contribute what? What is a "reasonable amount"? Without that defined, it's difficult to determine even the amount to be shared, let alone at what proportionate rate. You don't even have a starting amount.
This was a problem with my original agreement as well. A lot of loose wording that seems to work well when everyone is getting along, but not so well when they aren't getting along.
She can't have FRO deal with it. FRO aren't lawyers, they aren't there to settle these types of disputes. The court does that. FRO will only deal with the agreement on file.
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Yep. This is what FRO told us. So now he has to dispute everything. Which is a pain in the ass because its pretty simple to do all the math together and just complete the payment. He also suggested paying the university directly but no agreement. Hes trying to avoid them paying extra court costs but she refuses so its just reject the claims and go to court. It seems that she'll only listen to a judge and even then thats a stretch since shes made comment after comment about the judges decision on their settlement which she still doesnt agree with.
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Originally posted by movingON1975 View PostMy lawyer (mid 60s, pragmatic) warned me of the seemingly arbitrary judgement of judges. I wish I could get a job like that!
When I look at the numbers, it amounts to a couple of hundred over the year - not enough to worry about.
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The sad part is, his new lawyer (he moved and had to find someone here) told him his agreement is horrible and open to a great deal of interpretation. He was convinced she couldnt do section 7 through fro because the agreement is so flawed. In fact, the two expenses she submitted arent even in the agreement but he agreed to their costs as a substitution and an education expense. At this point he is thinking he should just reject everything and offer to pay via a new court order. He hates the idea of being unreasonable but all of his attempts at being reasonable have backfired. She just refuses to work together. And if she submits the entire university cost when they agreed to determine a portion from the child and hes been trying to discuss this with her for a year now, he wont think twice about rejecting it.
He asked his ex when their daughter graduated a year and a half ago to sit down and discuss costs and how they would pay for it. He kept asking and she either ignored him or said it didnt need to be worried about. Over and over again since last October. Now the bills have come in and instead of discussing, it goes right to FRO.
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Did you get this sorted out rockscan?
I had a similar incident happen to me.....ex lied on a statement of arrears to FRO for an amount/time period getting the amount.
FRO immediately began garnishing half my pay cheques....giving ex as much money as fast as they could get it to her.
I learned from the court clerk that ex did not even have to show the court clerk our court order......all they have to do is a sworn affidavit and the court clerk has to sign off on it/send it to FRO (without even seeing the court order--that the info matches!)
absolutely ridiculous.
I spoke to people at FRO....by the time anyone understood that the court order info did not match ex's statement of arrears....they had already gave her over half the money.
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We're waiting on a response from FRO. He pays voluntarily into an account and he speaks to his caseworker on a regular basis who has told him she has no worries with him. For the one S7 receipt, he is fine with paying the separation agreement amount (5% higher than current income) but is vehement about the university cost. Their agreement clearly states a contribution by the child and his caseworker said if his ex is not considering that and he disputes this section of the cost, they cannot try to recoup that money, they will advise her it is disputed and reject it forcing her to either resubmit an amount they can agree to or seek a court order.
Im confused about your case though? My partner got a letter from FRO outlining the amount he owed and he called them right away and they started the investigation with the money just going on his balance owing. He only owes them $250 at the moment.
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Originally posted by Laughingstock View PostDid you get this sorted out rockscan?
I had a similar incident happen to me.....ex lied on a statement of arrears to FRO for an amount/time period getting the amount.
FRO immediately began garnishing half my pay cheques....giving ex as much money as fast as they could get it to her.
I learned from the court clerk that ex did not even have to show the court clerk our court order......all they have to do is a sworn affidavit and the court clerk has to sign off on it/send it to FRO (without even seeing the court order--that the info matches!)
absolutely ridiculous.
I spoke to people at FRO....by the time anyone understood that the court order info did not match ex's statement of arrears....they had already gave her over half the money.
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So what is the exact process to object?(is there some special "object" form to fill out that I never knew about?)
I called FRO immediately telling them the information was wrong/I disagreed with the amount/time frame (as it went against our court order) I also sent them a letter by registered mail explaining the above with a copy of my court order too.
FRO still sent my employer a letter telling them to start deducting more off my pay cheques.
And when I call them, I do not get responded back to fast....I could talk to someone/them tell me to call them back to get an update....and then when I do....days can go by before they respond back.
This process for me probably took almost a month before they realized my situation and started following the court order (so a lot of the money was already paid to ex that went against the court order because they had sent that letter to my employer immediately after receiving my ex's statement of arrears---basically my work and myself got the same letter regarding it at the same time)
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Originally posted by Laughingstock View PostSo what is the exact process to object?(is there some special "object" form to fill out that I never knew about?)
I called FRO immediately telling them the information was wrong/I disagreed with the amount/time frame (as it went against our court order) I also sent them a letter by registered mail explaining the above with a copy of my court order too.
FRO still sent my employer a letter telling them to start deducting more off my pay cheques.
And when I call them, I do not get responded back to fast....I could talk to someone/them tell me to call them back to get an update....and then when I do....days can go by before they respond back.
This process for me probably took almost a month before they realized my situation and started following the court order (so a lot of the money was already paid to ex that went against the court order because they had sent that letter to my employer immediately after receiving my ex's statement of arrears---basically my work and myself got the same letter regarding it at the same time)
I've done a FRO statement of arrears.....Ex objected DESPITE it being in the court order. Nothing was collected on my behalf. FRO doesn't settle disputes, they enforce orders.
My husband received a statement of arrears prepared by his ex and sent to FRO for enforcement. He could object to it, or not. He didn't. The statement was enforced.
Simple as that. If FRO has the court order wrong, then let them know. They aren't going to examine every statement of arrears against the orders on file UNTIL someone objects to the contents of that statement of arrears.
It's irrelevant if she already as the money. FRO is an "account" based system. They can short up future payments if errors have been made. You need to let them know what those errors are.
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