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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #31  
Old 08-20-2020, 11:45 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired_of_court View Post
I know it sounds confusing, but the order was guideline child support + $250 in S7 expenses. It was replaced with guideline child support only.



Yes, that support went up due to income change and exchange rate, but there was no order for anything above guideline. His court ordered monthly obligation was going down, not up.
Oh ok... so it seems to me that real issue is about s7 expenses contribution. If he was paying less than table amount based on his actual income (actual usd income converted to cad using actual exchange rate), then it would be a big problem for him and an easy motion for you since one can't easily get out of paying less than table amount.

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  #32  
Old 08-21-2020, 12:26 AM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
Oh ok... so it seems to me that real issue is about s7 expenses contribution. If he was paying less than table amount based on his actual income (actual usd income converted to cad using actual exchange rate), then it would be a big problem for him and an easy motion for you since one can't easily get out of paying less than table amount.

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The motion was pretty easy by comparison to finding him and having him served in the US. He had moved, not told me. Then delays in income disclosure, etc. I managed to settle 4 years of outstanding adjustments at once though, which was a significant lump sum payment of arrears.

Most of the motions have been easy once I get to the court. It's pretty cut and dry. But the process is excruciating. It's all entirely avoidable at less cost, which is why it's so damned annoying.

He can waste his money on legal fees, I'm not too bothered. But, I don't want to hear about hardship because he's just doing it to himself.
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  #33  
Old 08-22-2020, 12:33 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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An update - he finally responded to my email. Congratulated the child on the scholarships she earned, but then went on to state that he didn't have funds to contribute towards post-secondary despite what our agreement states.

I responded by suggesting a 50/50 option was more suitable (his actual share would be 70%), and reminded him that I was only including for tuition, but could potentially include all. It was my intention to have my daughter pay for books, laptop, etc as her own contribution to her education expenses and encourage frugality in these expenses. She has some funds from part-time employment saved.

His statements are confusing me as he has stated in all previous financial statement filings that he contributes to an RESP. This doesn't match with his proclamation that he has no funds for post-secondary. How to handle this?

I reminded him the RESP was in his financial disclosure as early as 2012.

More concerning, I have sent him the necessary school paperwork to withdraw from an RESP. This means if he makes those withdrawals and doesn't pay anything towards education then she could be responsible for the taxes on the government grant portion and the investment income.

So, now what?
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  #34  
Old 08-22-2020, 01:33 PM
tilt tilt is offline
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Staying out of court is always the best option if available. Differences of opinion can be settled with some sort of compromise. But if one party is completely unreasonable, then there is no other choice but to go to court.

The dynamic here is you ask for something reasonable, he says no. You keep asking, offering compromises, he still says no, you get frustrated and emotional (rightly so! - I am not being judgemental), then you file a motion and basically get what you wanted in your first request. This has happened several times you say. Okay, it is time to ask yourself why you are participating in this dynamic. You can't change him, and when you make a reasonable request you 100% know what he is going to respond with. So why do you keep repeating this pattern?

So, make one reasonable request (you already have). Nest step is just file a motion. It will take a while to get to due to the enormous backlog so the sooner the better. The time you are wasting on this fruitless back-and-forth just prolongs the emotional and financial upset to you. As you mentioned, this is now affecting your daughter's taxes. As her parent you should be looking out for her best interest - it is you that need to file the motion and include the RESP because it would not be fair to expect her to file a motion against her own father.

So, as recommended above, calculate what the four year cost of post-secondary education and child support. Include *everything*, the judge can reject specific items but won't ever add (and they frequently mention that in their R4J, so it must frustrate them to see self-reps that can't advocate for themselves). Ask for the moon, but also make a reasonable offer to settle (don't bend over though - you offering 50/50 and just tuition makes you seem very weak. It is obvious that you will settle for less than that and that is what is prolonging everything. You need help from a lawyer in preparing a proper offer to settle since you just aren't in the headspace to fully advocate for yourself or your daughter).

If you feel you can't self-rep because you are just done with court, get as much together as you can and hire a lawyer on limited retainer. Watch the billing, you can say they are to only draft documents and represent you at the motion, so that your ex doesn't drive up your fees with useless negotiations.

Stop getting so emotionally inclined with your ex's emails. You say you feel bullied, well you have taught your ex that they can upset you. File the motion, make a reasonable offer to settle and any future contact with your ex just respond "Thank you for your email. I am prepared to have this motion decided in court. My offer to settle is still available for your acceptance."

It sucks having to deal with a completely unreasonable party - but I started getting dramatically different results when I changed how I was participating in the dynamic.
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  #35  
Old 08-22-2020, 02:13 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilt View Post
Staying out of court is always the best option if available. Differences of opinion can be settled with some sort of compromise. But if one party is completely unreasonable, then there is no other choice but to go to court.

The dynamic here is you ask for something reasonable, he says no. You keep asking, offering compromises, he still says no, you get frustrated and emotional (rightly so! - I am not being judgemental), then you file a motion and basically get what you wanted in your first request. This has happened several times you say. Okay, it is time to ask yourself why you are participating in this dynamic. You can't change him, and when you make a reasonable request you 100% know what he is going to respond with. So why do you keep repeating this pattern?

So, make one reasonable request (you already have). Nest step is just file a motion. It will take a while to get to due to the enormous backlog so the sooner the better. The time you are wasting on this fruitless back-and-forth just prolongs the emotional and financial upset to you. As you mentioned, this is now affecting your daughter's taxes. As her parent you should be looking out for her best interest - it is you that need to file the motion and include the RESP because it would not be fair to expect her to file a motion against her own father.

So, as recommended above, calculate what the four year cost of post-secondary education and child support. Include *everything*, the judge can reject specific items but won't ever add (and they frequently mention that in their R4J, so it must frustrate them to see self-reps that can't advocate for themselves). Ask for the moon, but also make a reasonable offer to settle (don't bend over though - you offering 50/50 and just tuition makes you seem very weak. It is obvious that you will settle for less than that and that is what is prolonging everything. You need help from a lawyer in preparing a proper offer to settle since you just aren't in the headspace to fully advocate for yourself or your daughter).

If you feel you can't self-rep because you are just done with court, get as much together as you can and hire a lawyer on limited retainer. Watch the billing, you can say they are to only draft documents and represent you at the motion, so that your ex doesn't drive up your fees with useless negotiations.

Stop getting so emotionally inclined with your ex's emails. You say you feel bullied, well you have taught your ex that they can upset you. File the motion, make a reasonable offer to settle and any future contact with your ex just respond "Thank you for your email. I am prepared to have this motion decided in court. My offer to settle is still available for your acceptance."

It sucks having to deal with a completely unreasonable party - but I started getting dramatically different results when I changed how I was participating in the dynamic.
Excellent advise. I'm really not as emotional as perhaps my message indicated. I'm not at all surprised he's objecting, it is his pattern. It's almost amusing how right I am about how he'll handle things. It's always the same. I'm well-over the hurt, I'm just salty that I'm always the one responsible for everything, like I'm the only adult in the room.

I do empathize with a lack of funds issue, but the RESP that had been stated in financial statements before led me to believe that this was really a non-issue as he seemed to be prepared. While I should have expected hassle, I really held hope that this time would be the time he just gave up on the hassle.

The RESP could have been a lie for the last 15 years, who knows really? It wouldn't be the first lie he's attested to in all these years.

Luckily for my daughter, this year can be covered no matter what decision or delays he imposes, so I felt no real urgency to file immediately. But, now it's just getting messy with lies. I really should known better.

I appreciate the encouragement and the validity that I am, in fact, being reasonable in this situation. You forget sometimes. I appreciate it.
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  #36  
Old 08-22-2020, 03:55 PM
tilt tilt is offline
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Even if you aren't being emotional - he is perceiving you as being emotional and gets a little thrill thinking he is in control. That is why he wants to have all this contact with you, toying with you.

Keep being strong, you'll persevere in the end.
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  #37  
Old 08-22-2020, 05:52 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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He may have cashed out the RESP and sent the grant back to the government but if he has used it in recent documents then add that.

Watch on the unbundled services though. Lawyers normally charge more an hour in that case and they will ding you for every minute.
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  #38  
Old 08-22-2020, 07:41 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
He may have cashed out the RESP and sent the grant back to the government but if he has used it in recent documents then add that.

Watch on the unbundled services though. Lawyers normally charge more an hour in that case and they will ding you for every minute.
He may have done that, I really don't know.

The last court appearance was to end the S7 expenses he was previously ordered to pay and I did have a conversation with himself and the judge that I didn't want this move on my part to impact his future S7 expense obligation, specifically for tuition. A statement to this effect was even incorporated into the new order if memory serves me correctly.

My last email to him was reminding him that the scholarships she has received were for this year only, that I was only requesting tuition and that I'd be willing to forgo court for a 50/50 split on tuition. I did the math, provided him with spreadsheets and then rounded down the resulting numbers to $1950 for this entire first year. That's it though, I'm not going down the negotiation rabbit hole with him. If I have to do more spreadsheets, they'll be for court.

I'll likely self-rep again, it's easier than bringing in a new lawyer with the long history. And I will look for a fixed amount for each semester/year for the entire undergrad degree so I never, ever, ever have to do it again.
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2020, 12:46 PM
Tired_of_court Tired_of_court is offline
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Update:

He now admits that he cashed in RESP "years ago" despite it being on his financial statements since then.

He is also claiming that post-secondary isn't included in S7 expenses, and therefore isn't obligated. But, at the same time, he's asking for our daughter's T4, NOA and proof she's remaining at home this first year.

In response I've sent a copy of the CSSG where S7 expenses are identified. A screen shot of his financial statement where he is claiming the RESP expense, a screen shot of the last order where it specifically states that I wasn't waiving future S7 expenses and a link to the Ontario.ca website where it addresses post-secondary education and the pandemic. Of course, all this he has access to as well, but he just can't cooperate. I've also heard more about his sick wife than I've ever wanted to know, and he still hasn't asked how daughter is.

So, ya, court can't be avoided and I will file in the next few weeks.

Again, I appreciate the input and cheering on I've received here. Thanks.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2020, 01:53 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Default Court - How many times?

Her T4 and NOA are irrelevant but send them anyway. You can also outline what his share of the expenses will be. Nice how he questions if she will be living at home. I shake my head at these men when my husbands ex claimed he was a deadbeat and didnt care about their education...your ex is a jerk.

A great statement that I had shared with us years ago was how you manage this matter is not my problem that applies to his ex wife...you could advise him how you manage your personal issues is not my problem. Our daughters educational success is.
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