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  • #31
    Had a pretty interesting conversation tonight. It all started out with her telling me I didn't care about our house. I told her that was not true I did care about it. Basically this whole time I have told her she could buy me out of the house. However her pension is worth 3 times mine and she had a fair amount of school debt when we got married. I had no debt and a car. So needless to say with the pension my assets and her debt before marriage she has done significantly better in terms of the NFP. She qualified to refinance the mortgage but had to pay off all our debt. which would not have left her with enough to buy me out. But if she chose to transfer half her pension it would have been close enough. Anyway back to the conversation tonight. She basically said... "this is why i'm going to court, do you actually think a judge is going to kick me out of my house" I said "I didn't know we are going to court, did you file the paperwork???" she replied "no I'm not doing anything we can live like this for years I don't care". By this time I had had enough and walked away. She still knows how to pull me into these meaningless conversations.

    It does not look like I posted what my original offer was.

    I offered 50/50 shares custody (2-2-3) M-T/W-T/ alternating F-S-S.
    I offered full table offset child support.
    Section 7 expenses at 62% / 38%
    I told her she could buy me out of the house.
    Shared alternating holidays
    I asked her to waive spousal support. (she has 2 college diplomas) a great full-time job with a fantastic pension. After child support calculations take home income would have been split 46.5% / 53.5% a difference of something like $400.00 / month.

    she said no to all items.

    Offset was not acceptable she wanted "contino" analysis done.
    She wanted "Max" spousal. Min was $0 mid was $72 max was $540
    She feels it's to disruptive to the children to be moved around so much. So I said we could do 1 week / 1 week. That was not good because it was too long without seeing them. So she wants sole custody with "generous" access.

    And to top it all off she finishes the conversation with the following

    "Why don't you be a man accept your responsibility and walk away for your children's sake" Accept my responsibility and walk away... that makes lots of sense.

    This is what I'm dealing with.

    Sorry I guess I'm a little excited...trying to be rational with an irrational person just does not work...I should know this but yet I keep trying to be reasonable. (slaps own wrist).

    I also got an email from my lawyer today. He said I should not be recording conversations between the two of us and he said it would probably not be able to be used in court. He said judges in family court look down on this kind of behaviour.

    I replied stating that I was told that Ontario had single party notification, and I was not using it for court but for my own protection against more false allegations.

    I did not receive a reply. So I'm not sure what to do about this.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by FB_ View Post
      I offered 50/50 shares custody (2-2-3) M-T/W-T/ alternating F-S-S.
      I offered full table offset child support.
      Section 7 expenses at 62% / 38%
      I told her she could buy me out of the house.
      Shared alternating holidays
      I asked her to waive spousal support. (she has 2 college diplomas) a great full-time job with a fantastic pension. After child support calculations take home income would have been split 46.5% / 53.5% a difference of something like $400.00 / month.

      she said no to all items.

      Offset was not acceptable she wanted "contino" analysis done.
      She wanted "Max" spousal. Min was $0 mid was $72 max was $540
      She feels it's to disruptive to the children to be moved around so much. So I said we could do 1 week / 1 week. That was not good because it was too long without seeing them. So she wants sole custody with "generous" access.
      It sounds like she's either doing a lot of research on her own, or she's hired a lawyer. Either way, I'd consider it progress. I had to Google contino analysis as I'd never seen it mentioned around here before, so it's probably pretty obscure.

      A Critical Analysis of the Contino Case | Gene C. Colman Family Law Centre | Toronto, Ontario

      I'm sure there was a poster recently trying to get into the calculations. I wonder if he found this?

      But at a quick skim, it seems like something fair, and might be worth agreeing with her on if that helps things move forward. You might even come out ahead.

      And you've established that week on week off is too infrequent, and 2-2-3 is too frequent, so there must be something in the middle she'd agree on! Haha, is that too much logic?
      Last edited by Rioe; 08-24-2012, 12:03 AM.

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      • #33
        She does have a lawyer.

        We asked her for her offer including contino analysis and it was ignored

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        • #34
          fuck man... your post sounds like a clip from Dr. Phill.

          You sure it's over? I'm thinking you are just flexing the eyebrows and positioning.

          You're looking for Info from us to play into your game perhaps?

          Buy her some flowers.

          Comment


          • #35
            kind of sounds like foreplay to me.

            Comment


            • #36
              The fact you are still talking speaks volumes. You'd just playin aren't you?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                fuck man... your post sounds like a clip from Dr. Phill.

                You sure it's over? I'm thinking you are just flexing the eyebrows and positioning.

                You're looking for Info from us to play into your game perhaps?

                Buy her some flowers.
                I hope this was a joke. My life is certainly not.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I don't think this sounds like reconciliation...it sounds like the start of a very nasty divorce.

                  However, Arabian raises a good point. Why are you stil having verbal conversations?

                  It always surprises me when separated people come here and ask if they can use something their stbx says during a conversation in court. Its highly unlikely since its going to be denied. If you had the same thing in email...it would be a non-issue...you could simply print it out.

                  You've been married to her for years...you know that you don't communicate well and it gets you no where.....so why on earth are you still doing it at detriment to your divorce proceedings? If you're getting divorced...be smart...stop talking and use verifiable methods.

                  The tape recorder suggestion was NEVER so that you could use the conversations in court for your divorce process. The only thing tape recorders help with is IF she accuses you of spousal abuse and calls the cops (trumping up charges) that you have defense against it...that's the only real time it can be used. Otherwise, you should be using only email to communicate.

                  Stop getting dragged into this type of nonsense. If you want the situation to change, its obvious she's not going to do it...you have to. Man up and stop letting her control you and drag you into doing things that are detrimental to your divorce and custody fight.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                    It sounds like she's either doing a lot of research on her own, or she's hired a lawyer. Either way, I'd consider it progress. I had to Google contino analysis as I'd never seen it mentioned around here before, so it's probably pretty obscure.

                    A Critical Analysis of the Contino Case | Gene C. Colman Family Law Centre | Toronto, Ontario

                    I'm sure there was a poster recently trying to get into the calculations. I wonder if he found this?

                    But at a quick skim, it seems like something fair, and might be worth agreeing with her on if that helps things move forward. You might even come out ahead.

                    And you've established that week on week off is too infrequent, and 2-2-3 is too frequent, so there must be something in the middle she'd agree on! Haha, is that too much logic?
                    Thanks for the link

                    Interesting part of the article.

                    In Contino, we had a parent who was formerly exercising access. The court's concern for trading "dollars for days" was sensitive and well placed. However, this approach has little utility in the case of those parents who start from a 50-50 shared time arrangement. Neither is the Court's admonition particularly apt for those parents who truly split most of the child's expenses either equally or in accordance with the parents' respective incomes. Treating such parents as essentially "access" parents and then ordering the so-called "access" parent to pay child support to the so called "custodial" parent could very well work an injustice towards the child who is prejudiced financially in one household and possibly unnecessarily benefited in the other household.
                    The court judgement ruled that it was trading dollars for days.

                    We currently have a 50/50 arrangement and we are currently splitting ALL household expenses at 56.5% and 44.5% including Mortgage, Utilities, Child expenses, Groceries. She is paying 100% of her car loan as she drives her car. I am paying 100% of my car loan as I am driving it. She pays her own gas and insurance as do I pay mine.

                    So i'm not sure if this case is actually relevant but I am no expert.

                    The Court of Appeal appeared to make a general assumption that section 9 only addresses a situation where the former "access" parent moves from less than 40% of the time to more than 40%. This is understandable as this was the underlying fact configuration in Contino. Yet this case will likely be used as a precedent where the factual underpinnings could be quite different. A simple application of a precedent that might be more applicable to one of set of facts could cause an injustice when applied to a qualitatively different fact situation.

                    One can easily conceive of different factual configurations where we may not be addressing a situation of moving from less to more than 40%. Rather, we may be addressing a situation with 50-50 shared time or something close to it from the outset. We may be starting from a situation where the parents are already equitably sharing the expenses related to the child. Under section 9, do courts actually take cognisance of who actually incurs child-centered expenses that do not come under section 7 of the Guidelines?
                    Interesting, but I think our case does not fit the scenario of this matter.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                      I don't think this sounds like reconciliation...it sounds like the start of a very nasty divorce.

                      However, Arabian raises a good point. Why are you stil having verbal conversations?

                      It always surprises me when separated people come here and ask if they can use something their stbx says during a conversation in court. Its highly unlikely since its going to be denied. If you had the same thing in email...it would be a non-issue...you could simply print it out.

                      You've been married to her for years...you know that you don't communicate well and it gets you no where.....so why on earth are you still doing it at detriment to your divorce proceedings? If you're getting divorced...be smart...stop talking and use verifiable methods.

                      The tape recorder suggestion was NEVER so that you could use the conversations in court for your divorce process. The only thing tape recorders help with is IF she accuses you of spousal abuse and calls the cops (trumping up charges) that you have defense against it...that's the only real time it can be used. Otherwise, you should be using only email to communicate.

                      Stop getting dragged into this type of nonsense. If you want the situation to change, its obvious she's not going to do it...you have to. Man up and stop letting her control you and drag you into doing things that are detrimental to your divorce and custody fight.
                      I get sucked in. You are right I need to stop. It is so frustrating listening to her accusing me of not being there for the kids (in front of the kids). Telling me I should just walk away. Telling me it's all my fault she had an affair and I need to get over it. I'm trying to be there for my kids, hence the reason I am putting myself through this crap.

                      You are right she is not doing anything. My lawyer confirmed yesterday that he has started the court application. I asked for a timeline but he has yet to reply.

                      Now saying all that I don't know how to ignore her in front of the kids. I'm trying to keep things somewhat normal for them. But then she starts this crap sucks me in and we make it worse.

                      I do understand that the recordings are not for court. That is specifically what I told my lawyer. I clearly told him that I was concerned that she would make more false allegations like she has in the past to the police. She is a loose canon and I have no idea when she is going to lose it.

                      I like to go home every night and have dinner with my kids. I like putting them to bed and reading them stories. I don't want to be away from them on the days that are not mine. Up till this point we have pretty much done this. I try to eat dinner with the kids every night. We normally each put one kid to bed alternating which one each night. Then the person who's night out it is leaves. As I said I go to the gym. It's so hard as some nights you just want to stay home but you get no personal space. She has no problems walking into the basement without knocking, claiming it's a "shared" space as the laundry room is in the basement. I don't go into her room for anything.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I get sucked in. You are right I need to stop. It is so frustrating listening to her accusing me of not being there for the kids (in front of the kids). Telling me I should just walk away. Telling me it's all my fault she had an affair and I need to get over it. I'm trying to be there for my kids, hence the reason I am putting myself through this crap.
                        I, like many posters on this site, have lived through a lengthy in-home separation. Trust me, I get it. However, divorce is all about changing your habits and patterns...and if you're smart...you do it right away.

                        Think about this. Imagine she said the things that I have quoted above in email. You're about to probably have a custody evaluation. Its GREAT when you have it in print. If she says something in front of the kids, you politely ask her to stop, re-iterate that she'll have to contact you by email, and walk away. You then go to your room and log it into your daily journal. You do that everytime. You are establishing a pattern of behavior that you can then use in affidavits and to your evaluator.

                        You obviously love your kids...you obviously believe that its in their best interest to have a relationship with you and a better relationship with their mom. Help them and help yourself by not allowing yourself to stoop to her level and do what's right for them. You cannot change her...you have to change you. And if you want to reduce your stress level during this time (and it is the worst time for you right now)...concentrate on strategy instead of stupidity. Be smart, stop engaging her at her level...raise the bar!
                        Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 08-24-2012, 11:19 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Deep Breath... Relax...

                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I don't have any other suggestions for your big picture right now, but here are a few minor ones.

                            Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                            I get sucked in. You are right I need to stop. It is so frustrating listening to her accusing me of not being there for the kids (in front of the kids). Telling me I should just walk away. Telling me it's all my fault she had an affair and I need to get over it. I'm trying to be there for my kids, hence the reason I am putting myself through this crap.

                            Now saying all that I don't know how to ignore her in front of the kids. I'm trying to keep things somewhat normal for them. But then she starts this crap sucks me in and we make it worse.
                            Try just saying something like "this is not an appropriate topic to discuss in front of the children," and clam up. By using them as an audience, she's trying to limit your power and get them on her side. Tell her you'll send an email later. Turn away from her and have a conversation with the kids about something they are interested in. And be sure to assure your kids that you love them no matter what mommy says in anger. "Mommy's angry, let's give her a chance to calm down. Did you see any interesting bugs today?" Be the calm parent and they'll see who is the reasonable one, which will defuse her tactics.

                            Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                            I like to go home every night and have dinner with my kids. I like putting them to bed and reading them stories. I don't want to be away from them on the days that are not mine. Up till this point we have pretty much done this. I try to eat dinner with the kids every night. We normally each put one kid to bed alternating which one each night. Then the person who's night out it is leaves. As I said I go to the gym. It's so hard as some nights you just want to stay home but you get no personal space. She has no problems walking into the basement without knocking, claiming it's a "shared" space as the laundry room is in the basement. I don't go into her room for anything.
                            You shouldn't need to go out. You can if you want and away time is good, but if you don't want to, put a lock on the basement door so you can have privacy. Tell her to do laundry when you aren't there, or to go to a laundromat. If she has a problem with that, tell her you would be happy to trade rooms so she's the one in the basement.

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                            • #44
                              [QUOTE=Pursuinghappiness;104781]If she says something in front of the kids, you politely ask her to stop, re-iterate that she'll have to contact you by email, and walk away. You then go to your room and log it into your daily journal. You do that everytime. You are establishing a pattern of behavior that you can then use in affidavits and to your evaluator.

                              [QUOTE]

                              This is GREAT advice. I too lived through a year within the same house during the separation process...I've been there!

                              I kept a daily journal about interactions with me, conversations, ahd observations about her behaviour in front of the kids. Although at first I wasn't sure why I did it, patterns definitely emerged. I kept an electronic daily journal for over a year....was completed with supporting pictures, times when things occurred etc. My lawyer told me NOT to hand it over to the child assessor as anything submitted in writing is subject to the other party reviewing and rebutting. Not that I didn't think rebutting should be avoided, but I didn't want the assessment to drag on any longer than it already had. I made it a point to take out my journal and read directly from entries when I had meetings with the assessor. He actually commended me on "not guessing about dates and times" and noted he wished all his clients were as prepared. In the end, he got what he needed...and believe me...spouting off bad things in front of the kids, trying to damage the relationship between me and my daughter were HUGE in his recommendation to give sole custoday to me... a full time working dad over a stay at home mother.

                              It's VERY important for you to keep your head on...and not stoop to the other's level. Take the high road. Some of my friends said "How can you not just explode all over her?". My answer was "I'm walking lightly (avoiding conflict) but carrying a big stick (my journal...it was key to establishing behaviour)". If you are just beginning to keep a journal, then write a "preamble" to it highlighting major things that happened in the past. Just tell yourself that everything she does "damages" her own character....it helped me get through MANY MANY days of stress.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Stood my ground this afternoon.

                                STBX kept calling me at work. I answered the first couple of calls as my son often calls me at work and realized she was asking stupid questions I told her I was working and I hung up on her

                                She kept calling back. So I used the redirect feature on my phone and sent the call from our house phone to her cell phone. After the third time she got the hint and sent me a text. She also thanked me for wasting her cell phone minutes as she answered her own calls.

                                Next time if she continues I might just redirect the call to the police (bad idea, bad idea, bad idea)

                                Comment

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