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  • Extracurricular Activity "Guarantees"

    What is your take on one parent forcing another to "guarantee" their child's participation in an extracurricular activity?

    My stepson's mom suggested 2 activities - one that takes place weeknights and another on weekends. Seeing as one of the activities takes places during my husband's access time, she first asked for his agreement. (Good.) Wanting to be able to witness his son take part in an extracurricular activity, and given that this particular activity is halfway between our home and the mom's home, he agreed for her to enroll the child in the activity.

    Well, the mom demanded a "guarantee" that we would take the child to each and every session (80% of which fall on our scheduled weekends). We told her that we will surely bring the child to each practice/game, but we could not guarantee it, should something arise preventing us from doing so.

    This was not good enough for her, and claiming that without a guarantee, she would not be signing the child up for that particular activity. And so, yet again, my husband misses out.

    We realize that the money for the activity comes from child support, but does the child support recipient have full authority to decide how the money is being spent, without regard to the paying parent's wishes or suggestions?

  • #2
    Man this woman is a pita.

    The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. Get your husband to explain himself in an email that he will make every effort to get the child there but unable to offer a 100% guarantee. Then if she decides not to put him in, its her fault.

    If your husband has visitation every Wednesday evening, could he not just decide to put the child in something? Just enroll the child and if the mom starts sending nasty emails than it would look bad against her!

    mominont

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mominont View Post
      Man this woman is a pita.

      The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. Get your husband to explain himself in an email that he will make every effort to get the child there but unable to offer a 100% guarantee. Then if she decides not to put him in, its her fault.

      If your husband has visitation every Wednesday evening, could he not just decide to put the child in something? Just enroll the child and if the mom starts sending nasty emails than it would look bad against her!

      mominont
      Unfortunately my husband does not have weekly midweek visitation. The distance between our homes is too much. His court ordered visitation is every-second-weekend (Friday evening - Sunday evening) and 50% of all holidays/school vacations.

      What bothers us most about this is that when the child is with us, we pay 100% of the activities we sign him up for and take him to during that time. The mom claims that since these activities don't take place on "her time," she doesn't have to be financially responsible for them. On average, we spend about $500/year on camps and activities for the child. When the child is with his mom, she expects us to contribute to the cost of activities (on top of child support, in which such activities - with the exception of elite level sports - are already included) and guarantee that if the activity falls on our time with the child, nothing will come in the way of us taking him. Of course, the same "guarantee" does not apply to her. If something comes up or if she doesn't feel like taking the child herself, she doesn't, and claims it's her right to make her own schedule without anyone's - especially our - input.

      She just looooves to live by the double standard... and as you said, looooves being a pita. ;-)

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      • #4
        Wow....she is a challenge, and that will not change.

        I would just think of the child, put him first and do everything possible to ensure he is getting to his activities and that they are paid for. In the long run, you and your husband will come out on top, as when the child is older (if he does not realize it already) that you always were there for him! This child will appreciate everything you have done, the sacrifices, the distance travelled, and all the stuff you had to put up with regarding "mom" issues.

        Perhaps too, as the child gets older, you can explain to him the logistics and physical distance for the activities etc....and show him alternatives and give him some options. This way he is active in his choice of what he is doing.

        You sound like you are the bigger person, the mature one, and the one doing right by this child. Frustrating....I understand, believe me, but keep up the good work.

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        • #5
          Well, give her the guarantee - its just a word. Who cares? Not saying that you should make a false promise but c'mon! There is no guarantee that SHE will take him to the activity, is there? When its your time its your time. If you can take him, take him otherwise don't. It is unbelievably difficult to work with someone who just can't get over the past. Probably she still wants your husband back that's why she can't leave him alone. She probably wants your husband to look bad before his son because (in her words) "see, he does not want you to have fun".

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          • #6
            Wow, I have read the vast majority of your posts, what a challenge to keep your cool it must be. Personally I would offer her guarantee and simply do the best you can, if you didn't live up to the guarantee 100% what is the worse that could happen, even a Judge would understand that life has it's challenges and sometimes things "happen" What a serious nut case you have to deal with, must be exhausting, good luck

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            • #7
              Yes, a challenge it definitely is. And you're right, it is difficult keeping your cool sometimes, especially when the demands being thrown at you are so ridiculous.

              Right now, she just opened another can of worms on us - again going back to "determining child support" (she feels that she should have a choice whether to determine an amount based on my husband's notice of assessment of the past taxation year or based on his current income, whichever is higher) and "subsidized sick days," and registering with the FRO despite my husband being very diligent in paying his child support on time in the ordered amount - and so things like extracurricular activities have taken the back burner.

              We have, however, expressed that we would like for the child to be signed up for that particular activity (despite the mother having already signed him up for a similar activity taking place in her neighbourhood). We doubt she'll sign him up for the one half-way between our homes so that we may witness the child's participation as well... she's never agreeable to any such accommodation (yet complains to judges about how Dad is never around to watch the child participate in sports, etc.)

              So again, we bite down on our tongues and deal with what's most important from the pile of you-know-what she throws our way each and every week. :-) I truly do hope that the child will one day come to see that his dad and I have been around and doing the best we can since his birth, and that he'll appreciate that. But, if you've read the book "Divorce Poison" or are knowledgeable in HAP and PAS, you know that's not likely the case. But, we can't dispair just yet, right?! ;-)
              Last edited by #1StepMom; 09-10-2009, 01:51 PM.

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              • #8
                All of my step-daughter's extra curricular activities are included in Section 7 costs. All costs are determined by the proportionate share that each pays (add incomes and determine who's percentage is what).

                These activities are NOT supposed to be included in CS.

                Besides if your husband wants to be a part of these activities then he can either pay for it and eat the costs or pay and ask a judge to determine if section 7 applies; which he still may have to eat the costs depending on the ruling.

                Is it worth the fight over $150 registration?

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                • #9
                  Actually if you read the guidelines section 7 expenses only include extraordinary costs for extracurricular activities. Ordinary costs for extracurricular are indeed considered to be covered by child support. The fishy part of course is what is considered extraordinary which is always open to interpretation. As well, you should only be responsible for pro rata net costs. Any deductions like the sports tax credit should be factored in when determining the costs.
                  Last edited by kamkatie; 09-11-2009, 03:38 PM. Reason: typo

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kamkatie View Post
                    Actually if you read the guidelines section 7 expenses only include extraordinary costs for extracurricular activities. Ordinary costs for extracurricular are indeed considered to be covered by child support. The fishy part of course is what is considered extraordinary which is always open to interpretation. As well, you should only be responsible for pro rata net costs. Any deductions like the sports tax credit should be factored in when determining the costs.

                    For 10 years we've been paying ballet, swimming, gymnastics, kids camp, skating, medical and dental costs every year and no matter how many times we question these costs and our ability to pay; its considered valid and we're ordered to pay them under section 7. Even though her mother's income is twice that of our HOUSEHOLD income.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by anonymousmom View Post
                      For 10 years we've been paying ballet, swimming, gymnastics, kids camp, skating, medical and dental costs every year and no matter how many times we question these costs and our ability to pay; its considered valid and we're ordered to pay them under section 7. Even though her mother's income is twice that of our HOUSEHOLD income.
                      Well that flat out sucks. I agree with the medical/dental, they're an entirely different category then extracurricular activities. That being said you guys should still only be paying your share of what isn't covered under any benefits plans. If its in the agreement that you are to contribute twoards ALL extracurricular costs then you're kind of stuck. If it says section 7 expenses then I would hope you've got some kind of argument about what is ordinary vs extraordinary and then you can take the step as to whether they are reasonable considering the means of the parents etc.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kamkatie View Post
                        Well that flat out sucks. I agree with the medical/dental, they're an entirely different category then extracurricular activities. That being said you guys should still only be paying your share of what isn't covered under any benefits plans. If its in the agreement that you are to contribute twoards ALL extracurricular costs then you're kind of stuck. If it says section 7 expenses then I would hope you've got some kind of argument about what is ordinary vs extraordinary and then you can take the step as to whether they are reasonable considering the means of the parents etc.
                        We only pay our share of whats not covered by insurance.
                        Court ordered agreement states that he must pay his proportionate share of section 7 costs.

                        When we argued the costs even though our kids never get enrolled because we can't afford it...the judge argued that it was in the child's best interest to continue her activities with costs to remain the same including what is paid out in daycare/babysitting costs?!?!? (age is a huge factor for us here).

                        Our lucky break is that her new husband thinks she being unreasonable and we're working on coming to some type of agreement. Needless to say, I won't hold my breath.

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