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  • Part2: Expenses

    How do Part2: Expenses on Financial Statement come into play when determining SS? or do they come into play for anything? I would be the payor of SS, so please answer from my point of view.

    Thanks

  • #2
    The short answer is that they usually don't come into play.

    However, if you are looking to reduce SS based upon a claim for hardship, you will want to show considerable expenses relative to your income.

    Do not inflate your expenses - that can get you killed down the line. If you are making over 50k, then unless your ex is living large it would take an uncommon situation for you to justify not paying spousal support based upon your expenses.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
      The short answer is that they usually don't come into play.

      However, if you are looking to reduce SS based upon a claim for hardship, you will want to show considerable expenses relative to your income.

      Do not inflate your expenses - that can get you killed down the line. If you are making over 50k, then unless your ex is living large it would take an uncommon situation for you to justify not paying spousal support based upon your expenses.
      Thanks. In my case, not paying SS is not an option but rather how much I will have to pay. My STBX has exaggerated her expenses on her financial statement and she even listed expenses that dont exist. She intentionally spent money on things (that were not needed as I'm already paying for everything) so she can show that she has expenses. Now that her financial statement has been prepared, she has stopped spending money all together. Her financial statement shows that her expenses are a lot more than her income (which is obviously BS).

      I want to make sure that I list each and every expense and I'm totally not inflating anything whatsoever. I dont need to because I pay for EVERYTHING. My concern is with her 'expenses'. Also, she will not have any big expenses (housing, utilitites, transportation) in the future either because her family is rich and they got so much of it and everyone knows where she is going to live and all that. On the papers, she shows herself as 'miserable' and so 'poor' and it looks like there is not much I can do about it and I hate it!

      Comment


      • #4
        I want to make sure that I list each and every expense and I'm totally not inflating anything whatsoever.
        The expense section of the financial report is largely irrelevant for determination of SS or CS. (Unless its relevant for CS s7).

        I dont need to because I pay for EVERYTHING.
        Uh? Then STOP...right now. You're getting divorced. You should be separating your finances. You should be paying fixed expenses but nothing else. I'd literally cut off everything that's not mandatory (ie, mortgage, utilities, etc). Get rid of any joint accounts. You are under no obligation to pay voluntary SS. You pay when she proves entitlement and there's an order in place.

        My concern is with her 'expenses'. Also, she will not have any big expenses (housing, utilitites, transportation) in the future either because her family is rich and they got so much of it and everyone knows where she is going to live and all that. On the papers, she shows herself as 'miserable' and so 'poor' and it looks like there is not much I can do about it and I hate it!
        SS has nothing to do with her expenses. The amount is a product of your income/her income, length of marriage and her level of entitlement (low, med, high). My advice, stop worrying about things that are meaningless...its useless drama that is going to cause you bitterness. Who cares about how much money her family has? Her current expenses, her attitude are all irrelevant. What is relevant is her is education and employment history....her educational level, her previous job experience, her previous salary capability. All of those will help determine what income she's capable of earning...and if you can dig up evidence to prove it...you can impute an income to her and pay less SS.

        I would figure out what her income should be...gather the documentation...then figure out the amount per the SS table (which is based on your/her income and length of marriage)...then when you get to the offer stage...offer her either the low end or slightly less to start. Most judgements end up in the median range.

        You're going to figure out real soon that when you concentrate on the irrelevant drama with your dissolution...you waste a lot of time and a lot more money.

        Comment


        • #5
          Her FS can show a need but it is not likely to increase the quanta of spousal support.

          If she suddenly stops paying, wait a few months and ask her for a new financial statement - it is not uncommon for several to be produced over time.

          However, spousal support is one of the most complex areas of family law. I strongly suggest hiring a lawyer if this is going to be an issue between yourself and your ex, especially if she hires one.

          Not the best advice on a self-help board but where spousal support is concerned, better to pay a lawyer 5k now than risk paying your ex an extra 5k+ per year for, potentially, a couple decades.

          Comment


          • #6
            We already have our lawyers and thats how we are getting our financial statements prepared. My head spins seeing her financial statement.

            The reason I have been and still paying for everything is because I HAVE to and she does NOT have to (and also because I'm stupid) and here is why;

            Her credit was (and still is) so messed up that she could never get anything on her name. She used her credit and never paid back. So many collection companies are after her. So I always had to get everything on my name and thus being responsible for it. Her family always advised her to never have anything on her name so that she is 'free' from any worries. She 'forced' me into buying stuff on credit which I never wanted to and she 'promised' that she will contribute paying it off...but guess what, she never did and then it becomes my headache. Same story with house, car and what not. She had me buy a second car for HER so she could go to work to make money but she never paid a penny off the car and then I had to re-finance my mortgage to pay it off. Sad but it's one of the reason I can't stand her anymore. Currently she still lives with me in the matrimonial home but since nothing's on her name, she does not have to pay for anything. Obviously I have to pay until house is sold and equalization is done. Even her own grocery is not her worry because she eats at parent's house.

            Sorry, I know you guys could care less about this stuff but it 'feels good' to b*tch about it. After all thats all I can do now.

            Comment


            • #7
              It does not matter who pays for what and who's name is on what.

              You are married and all things should be divided equally - debts and assets.

              The only thing is the date of separation - after that it does matter who pays for what.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by billm View Post
                The only thing is the date of separation - after that it does matter who pays for what.
                Can you shed some more light on this?

                Comment


                • #9
                  You say you have a lawyer. Hasn't he/she advised you on the SS process?

                  Information you have provided is pretty much irrelevant. What are your ages, how long were you married and date of separation, did she ever work, did you have children,...? The rest of what you say is "he said she said" and a total waste of your lawyer's time. Your last 3 yr's income is what counts. Filling out expense estimates is only useful for lawyers back-and-forth nit-picking or to get you prepared for an equally useless, and expensive, 4-way meeting. Get your numbers together and make an offer. Don't let your lawyer drag this on. You ultimately are the one paying for everything. If you keep it high-emotion lawyers love it and your bill will be huge. [IN MY OPINION]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sam666 View Post
                    Can you shed some more light on this?
                    When you separate all debts and assets are equalized such that you both have the same net worth. You still keep the debts and assets with your name on them (unless you agree to give them to her), but a cash payout (usually from the equity in your home) will balance your net worth to be equal.

                    After you separate, you become two different entities, and are responsible for your own expense etc. Though after you separate you may still both own an interest in your debts and/or assets, and their value along with it, and that has to be accounted for. For example if you are carrying debt after you separate, she would be responsible for half the carrying charges. If you still both live in the house, you are both responsible for upkeep etc, and share in any increase or decrease in the value of the house.

                    You can have a separation date while you are still living together, but usually it is when you stop living together.

                    Does that seem fair to you?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by billm View Post
                      When you separate all debts and assets are equalized such that you both have the same net worth. You still keep the debts and assets with your name on them (unless you agree to give them to her), but a cash payout (usually from the equity in your home) will balance your net worth to be equal.

                      After you separate, you become two different entities, and are responsible for your own expense etc. Though after you separate you may still both own an interest in your debts and/or assets, and their value along with it, and that has to be accounted for. For example if you are carrying debt after you separate, she would be responsible for half the carrying charges. If you still both live in the house, you are both responsible for upkeep etc, and share in any increase or decrease in the value of the house.

                      You can have a separation date while you are still living together, but usually it is when you stop living together.

                      Does that seem fair to you?
                      Yes that makes sense.

                      Now as I mentioned that we are still living in the same matrimonial home. Everything is on my name and I have been paying for everything even after separation. We are waiting for separation agreement to be prepared and signed. We both agree to sell the house and who knows how long thats going to take. My question is that if she still lives here, should she not contribute towards some expenses now?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sam666 View Post
                        Yes that makes sense.

                        Now as I mentioned that we are still living in the same matrimonial home. Everything is on my name and I have been paying for everything even after separation. We are waiting for separation agreement to be prepared and signed. We both agree to sell the house and who knows how long thats going to take. My question is that if she still lives here, should she not contribute towards some expenses now?
                        yes she should but getting her to do it may be very hard. The only suggestion I can offer is to tell her that if she doesnt want to help then you are cutting off cable, internet and whatever else you can.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Absolutely she should contribute equally to all expenses.

                          But you perhaps should be paying her SS.

                          For example, my ex and I lived apart for the first year, she had kids half the time, and went to school full time.

                          We decided to keep all our money together and do a financial split one year later when she finished retraining and went back to work. During that time she spent money from a line of credit. After the year we split everything including bank accounts, credit cards, current value of homes and I started support payments.

                          So that was a little different but was a complete sharing of all expenses - so in a way I paid her SS, but she paid me for servicing debts and other costs, and we shared equally in her costs to setup a new place and go to school - we had a NDI of 50/50 that first year, which was very fair and for us a good way to handle the first year while she went back to school.

                          Mind you we both spent normally that year (actually she spent a lot all things considered, but I didn't worry about it too much).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                            yes she should but getting her to do it may be very hard. The only suggestion I can offer is to tell her that if she doesnt want to help then you are cutting off cable, internet and whatever else you can.
                            Yea thats how it is. She should but she wont. So I just suck it up.

                            lol...there is really nothing I can cut off that I dont need myself. I always paid for her cell phone too (it was on my name) and her cell phone was the only thing she agreed to pay herself after a month of arguing with her.

                            I'm never marrying again...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by billm View Post

                              Absolutely she should contribute equally to all expenses.

                              But you perhaps should be paying her SS.
                              aha...I don mind making this deal but she wont because she knows it's not going to work very well for her and her half of the expenses will be a lot more than what I will pay her in SS...she is smart piece of a$$.

                              Comment

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