Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Parenting Issues

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 02-18-2021, 12:21 PM
Nadia Nadia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 702
Nadia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I missed that the kid was 14. I assumed that since OP said that she was surprised that the school let the kid go that the kid was grade 3 or younger. Since her son is in grade 8 or 9 and can just leave at the end of the day, I am not sure why there would be any expectation that the school would intervene.

I was imagining a 5 year old kid. For a 14 year old, this is a non-issue.
Sorry should have been clearer.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-18-2021, 12:42 PM
Nadia Nadia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 702
Nadia is on a distinguished road
Default

But the outstanding question remains the same

From what I’ve read parents are continuously reminded that they must adhere strictly to the order in respect to access times etc. if a child is 14 as opposed to 5 is there an expectation parents are to be more flexible? If that is indeed the case why doesn’t it work the other way around? What if a child at the age of 14 decides for whatever reason he doesn’t want to go to the other parent’s house for the whole weekend or that particular weekend because he has made plans with his friends; what then?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-18-2021, 01:07 PM
Alpinist Alpinist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Colorado
Posts: 59
Alpinist is on a distinguished road
Default

From what I understand kids of that age 'walk/talk with their feet'. My partners children are that age. They have been making the decision each weekend switch whether they are showing up or not at their fathers house.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-18-2021, 01:46 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,059
rockscan will become famous soon enoughrockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia View Post
But the outstanding question remains the same

From what Ive read parents are continuously reminded that they must adhere strictly to the order in respect to access times etc. if a child is 14 as opposed to 5 is there an expectation parents are to be more flexible? If that is indeed the case why doesnt it work the other way around? What if a child at the age of 14 decides for whatever reason he doesnt want to go to the other parents house for the whole weekend or that particular weekend because he has made plans with his friends; what then?

In a perfect world parties would follow orders but they dont. More than likely the grandparents got huffy about your decision on time with grandson and dad took it upon himself to flex. Im not saying your decision was wrong. They should have let you know to avoid any conflict but many parents who have been told no tend to pull a stunt. High conflict people like to play games.

I would expect your ex to start exercising his parenting time for the next little while and to do something that he knows will get your back up. If you have something scheduled, let your son know and he can tell dad sorry but I have other plans. I know you said son tries to appease them but he is old enough now for the lesson on asserting himself and his schedule. Just because they are family doesnt mean they can walk all over him or you by extension.

As for the schedule, you can kindly remind all of them that there is a schedule laid that was agreed to and if anyone wants to make changes they can do so by working with you rather than against the schedule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-18-2021, 02:41 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,337
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I missed that the kid was 14. I assumed that since OP said that she was surprised that the school let the kid go that the kid was grade 3 or younger. Since her son is in grade 8 or 9 and can just leave at the end of the day, I am not sure why there would be any expectation that the school would intervene.

I was imagining a 5 year old kid. For a 14 year old, this is a non-issue.
^^^ This.

Now the real concern is when did the child turn 14? My interest is peeked by the age of the child being 14 and this happening. Lots of children start to swap houses at the age of 14. A parent who has been paying child support for 14 years may economically motivated to convince the child to move in with them. Some crafty parents will even offer up the child support they would get from the other parent as an "allowance" if they move... offer freedoms the other parent would never grant. Happens unfortunately all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-19-2021, 09:52 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 134
Brampton33 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Lots of children start to swap houses at the age of 14.
I would say that the majority of kids from a high-conflict separation/divorce are groomed between the ages of 6-14. Parents compete to provide better houses, better living situations, more independence, more gifts, better gifts, even in how they speak to the kids about "Isn't it better at this home?". That is just messing with the kid's mind and it should be considered child abuse.

With respect to OP, nobody knows the exact details, but 6:30pm-8:45am is pretty stingy. Maybe a little discussion on expanding parenting time a bit? Perhaps start the time at 4pm so your ex can atleast have a meal with teen son? Just a thought.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-19-2021, 11:58 AM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,656
Janus will become famous soon enoughJanus will become famous soon enough
Default

You were clear that the kid was 14, I just have reading comprehension issues. I apologize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia View Post
From what I’ve read parents are continuously reminded that they must adhere strictly to the order in respect to access times etc.
I think the problem here is the disconnect between theory and reality. In theory, you must adhere strictly to the order. That is absolutely true if you ever plan to go to court and fight for something.

The problem is that, as kids get older, court orders have less "oomph". There isn't some magical cutoff age. Slowly but surely, court orders directing parenting time become less important than the wishes of the child.

As a rough guideline, invented by me just now (but slightly informed by case law)

0-10 years old: Court order is the final word and must be followed
10-12 years old: Court order is the final word and should be followed
12-15 years old: Court order and wishes of the child need to be balanced. The more mature the child, the less the court order matters.
16+ years old: Court order mostly irrelevant. Only wishes of the child matters.


Quote:
if a child is 14 as opposed to 5 is there an expectation parents are to be more flexible?
I'm not sure if there is an expectation that parents will be flexible. I think rather it is more an unwillingness of the courts to override the wishes of the child.

Quote:
If that is indeed the case why doesn’t it work the other way around? What if a child at the age of 14 decides for whatever reason he doesn’t want to go to the other parent’s house for the whole weekend or that particular weekend because he has made plans with his friends; what then?
The courts would be unlikely to intervene in that case. Maybe if there was a pattern of one parent promoting non-compliance, and a demonstration that there was some harm to the child occurring due to the unilateral change in parenting time (eg severe alienation).

I think I've seen court orders on teens happen where the parent getting more time:
A) was anti-vax or crazy in some other way
B) allowed kid to not attend school
C) had some serious substance abuse issues

But yeah, the courts mostly care about young kids. They don't really do much about teens.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-19-2021, 02:16 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 943
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
^^^ This.

Now the real concern is when did the child turn 14? My interest is peeked by the age of the child being 14 and this happening. Lots of children start to swap houses at the age of 14. A parent who has been paying child support for 14 years may economically motivated to convince the child to move in with them. Some crafty parents will even offer up the child support they would get from the other parent as an "allowance" if they move... offer freedoms the other parent would never grant. Happens unfortunately all the time.
have you come across any studies that discuss how to combat this type of 'grooming' (for lack of a better term)?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-19-2021, 02:19 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 943
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

Also- to the OP.

Is it the lack of adherence to the schedule that is of concern? Or something more? The conflict with the paternal grandparents? Having to deal with your son's father?

Like everyone else said- being that your son is 14, and he did call you to let you know he was going with dad...it seems like it's not a big deal? But it is bothering you.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-19-2021, 02:41 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,656
Janus will become famous soon enoughJanus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
have you come across any studies that discuss how to combat this type of 'grooming' (for lack of a better term)?
It is a natural consequence of child support levels being completely out of synch with the marginal costs of raising a child.

If I have the kids 30%, 50%, or 70% of the time, my main costs are roughly the same. I still need the same amount of "house", and I still need the same amount of "car". The other major expense (babysitting) is S7 and explicitly does not vary with parenting time. The only expense that changes drastically would be food. Even clothing expenses would not change all that much, since the outerwear is the major expense and I would be purchasing the same outwear at any parenting time level.

I have 50% right now. For a few days extra a month, I would get about $15-20,000 in extra annual after-tax income. Let's say that works out to about 50 days a year. Unless I am spending $300 a day for extra food and activities (and that is every single one of those 50 days) then having those kids a few more days is incredibly profitable. Even better, that income is taken from the person I despise the most on the entire planet.

I'm not even sure if I could come up with 50 days of $300 food and activities. There is only so much steak and lobster tail one can consume.

In a nutshell, I am strongly incentivized to "groom" my kids to come and live with me, and the courts will not stop it, as discussed in this thread.

(Now, as it turns out, despite hating their mother, I recognize that she provides some value to the children. As such, I don't play the grooming game. However, I understand why others do.)

TLDR: There is no fix. The current system promotes grooming.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Children's bennefits Wiser2008 Financial Issues 21 05-03-2019 06:21 AM
Paying monthly support when adult child is not attending school Dad0208 Divorce & Family Law 21 06-29-2018 01:42 PM
Custody and Access Decision-Making and the Breastfeeding Child: Cavannah v. Johne WorkingDAD Divorce & Family Law 8 05-03-2011 10:55 AM
School not providing me with information Wendel Parenting Issues 6 04-20-2009 03:41 PM
Need answers... jinx101 Introductions 7 05-28-2007 06:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:42 AM.