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  • Support Payments

    I was ordered by a judge to pay interim support based on 2002 income. My income fluctuates and 2003, 2004 and 2005 to date show much less to zero income. I do have assets that have not provided income, due to poor market conditions. Can a judge force me to pay support when the income is just not there at this point in time?

  • #2
    hey so get a job

    Originally posted by jake8265
    I was ordered by a judge to pay interim support based on 2002 income. My income fluctuates and 2003, 2004 and 2005 to date show much less to zero income. I do have assets that have not provided income, due to poor market conditions. Can a judge force me to pay support when the income is just not there at this point in time?
    Jake no offense but these are your kids. If you are not making the money to support them then i would think it is time to get another job. I really dont understand men who bring children into the world and then think they have no responsiblity for them after a marriage breaks up (or at least act that way)
    maybe you could enlighten me. This is my second time around in this situation--stupid me--cant help that i am a relationship person--but it still blows me away that men can just walk and not pay and complain at what little they do. Whatever you are paying it is not enough i can almost assure you. Take along look at your children and tell me they are not worth everything you can give them---more than the basics.
    sandy

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    • #3
      Hi Jake and welcome,

      A lot is really going to depend on why your income is fluctuating so much. If you've got good reasons and really tried your best to earn an income, and can prove that to a judge, you'd likely get a reduction in support. However, there's also an issue of delay - and a judge is going to look at why you waited 3 years to do anything about it. Support won't necessarily be changed retroactively.
      Ottawa Divorce

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      • #4
        Hi Sandy and thanks for your thoughts.
        Yes, it works both ways. I've seen lots of people in your situation where the child support order is meaningless because the payor moves around, works under the table, etc. I've also seen lots of people in difficult financial situations trying to meet child support obligations that are too high.
        Ottawa Divorce

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        • #5
          I run a small business that is in a state of decline, mostly due to the change in shopping patterns, given that the big box explosion. My assets are tied up in inventory that grows older by the day and commercial real estate that sits empty because there are no interested commercial tenants at this point in time. I work everyday but just earn enough to pay the expenses related to the business with barely enough profits to eat. I can't just walk away from my inventory and business in order to get a job as the value from the inventory would then be worth little. I feel trapped but at least I am surviving with some hope that the tide will turn over time and I hope to provide support sooner or later but it might take several years in this spot to turn the tide. Can a judge make me sell all I own to satisfy an outdated support order based on (2002) income? At my age, mid 50's, starting over seems tough, and the hope of improvement in business seems more reasonable but the ability to pay support seems far off.

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          • #6
            I m not a lawyer Jake but I would ask the question, should I sell the business so I feel more secure in my finances?
            I just know that I tried for too long to hold a house that should have been mine by rights in my divorce because he would owe me more than the equity after the divorce was settled but because the process went on for too long...I ended up creating more debt, and eventually selling the house anyway.
            Ask yourself this....is it worth it? or are you better to sell knowing it is struggling and do something else? It is kinda like keeping a farm and taking the chance that you won't have a bad crop...ugh!
            Just my thoughts...Niki

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            • #7
              Jake, the leading case dealing with a situation like yours is:
              http://www.ottawadivorce.com/drygala.htm


              As you can see from that case, choosing to attend university rather than working full time can be considered intentional unemployment, even if there’s no bad faith involved. Similarly, I think that a judge may find that devoting yourself to a business that’s not profitable may be intentional unemployment, even though there does not seem to be bad faith on your part.

              I know you’re probably short of cash, but I think that it would be worth your while to spend an hour or so with a lawyer going into detail about your situation. It sounds to me like arrears are piling up under the 2002 support order and the sooner you do something about it, the sooner you can stop the arrears from growing.

              If your income is that low, you may be entitled to legal aid. Check in your phone book for your local legal aid office.

              I have trouble imagining that a judge would allow you to pay no child support for several years, regardless of the business conditions. On the other hand, it sounds to me like you’d be entitled to some sort of reduction in child support. That leaves open a fairly large range of child support in which you or your lawyer can negotiate a compromise.
              Ottawa Divorce

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              • #8
                Support payments

                Is income for purposes of support payments determined by value of assets or by income as shown on personal and corporate tax returns. In my case, the assets are not producing income because of extenuating circumstances not from my not wanting them to produce a good rate of return. What options does a judge have in my case?

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                • #9
                  Everything you mention, really. If you're self-employed, determining income is a complex job. The starting point is line 150 of your personal income tax return. But a judge can add back certain deductions (even if legitimately made) - common examples are expenses for vehicles and home offices. As well, the judge will look at your corporate returns and if you're leaving income in the corporation, there will need to be a business reason for it, otherwise, this may be added to your income as well. The judge can impute income to you if he or she decides that your property is not being used reasonably to generate income. The judge can decide that you should be working at a higher paying job, given your skills and experience, and impute income to you based on that. Calculating income for a self-employed person can be quite complicated.
                  Ottawa Divorce

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jeff
                    Everything you mention, really. If you're self-employed, determining income is a complex job. The starting point is line 150 of your personal income tax return. But a judge can add back certain deductions (even if legitimately made) - common examples are expenses for vehicles and home offices. As well, the judge will look at your corporate returns and if you're leaving income in the corporation, there will need to be a business reason for it, otherwise, this may be added to your income as well. The judge can impute income to you if he or she decides that your property is not being used reasonably to generate income. The judge can decide that you should be working at a higher paying job, given your skills and experience, and impute income to you based on that. Calculating income for a self-employed person can be quite complicated.
                    Can you suggest what I might do to prepare for my "day in court" to prove to a judge that the lack of support comes from a lack of business and not from a lack of effort?

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                    • #11
                      Hi Jake,

                      I can't really help you with that via the divorce forums. I can give legal *information* but not *advice* over the web. I think that answering your question would be considered advice.
                      Ottawa Divorce

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