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  • #16
    I find the system soooo slow by the time the report is done, then a court date, your child may be too old for it to even make a difference. I have read on here that around the age of 13 the courts dont interfere with access.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
      A social worker will meet with your children, usually once at each parent's home, and will then write up what the kids want.

      It is cheaper than hiring a private clinician to get evidence as to the views and preferences of the children.
      Thank you. That's what was explained to me as well. I was hoping someone else had gone thru it, and help me with the value of the VoC report.

      Appreciate it nonetheless.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by kate331 View Post
        If custody & access is already decided why do you even need this???
        It isn't. Its the case of a high conflict parent fighting tooth and nail. If all issues of custody and access have been settled "final" as claimed then it would take an act of a material change in circumstance to raise it at a trial on financial issues alone.

        Suffice to say, the report won't qualify for entry into the record and will be easily blocked by opposing party if they have counsel. Nor will the judge want to hear the matter when it has been settled "final".

        It is about access... Final things require material changes in circumstances to change.

        It would be a significant waste of family resources to retain a professional. Furthermore, the other party's agreement or a court order would be required to even do the VoC report. So you have to get consent or a court order. Good luck with both.

        Sounds like a backdoor assessment: http://www.yoursocialworker.com/s-ar...ssessments.htm

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
          I've already had a court ordered arbitrator with a Ph.D in Psychology and background family issue resolution. Her focus was mostly on "fixing" the relationship between myself and my ex rather the role she was brought in. Caused more headache than needed, and cost more money in the end.
          A court cannot order arbitration "cold". They can only order arbitration if an existing agreement lists it as a dispute resolution ("warm"). In fact, the parties have to go to arbitration unless they both withdraw the consent to this dispute resolution and return to court. One party can press arbitration to happen.

          I am asking for experience of someone who has been through. Not a recommendation of what's best. We're already committed to a route.
          As you are named "WorkingMom" you probably should know that I am a material contributor to this matter and assist the respondent in that matter on a continual basis and about 80+ other matters involving Section 30, OCL and VoC report.

          Feel free to ignore learned advice... I'll still respond for the benefit of the 100,000s of thousands of readers so they don't make the same mistakes as you are about to.

          I assisted the Respondent in becoming...

          ... one of the most skilled and well-prepared self-represented litigants this court has seen. He was meticulously organized, and consistently demonstrated a working knowledge of the relevant provisions of the Children’s Law Reform Act, Family Law Act, the Courts of Justice Act and the Family Law Rules. Under cross-examination he was responsive but unflappable. His own cross-examination of the Applicant and the OCL social worker was respectful, understated – and at times devastating.
          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
            Thank you. That's what was explained to me as well. I was hoping someone else had gone thru it, and help me with the value of the VoC report.

            Appreciate it nonetheless.
            In a matter where custody and access that is supposedly is settled FINAL you will require a "material changer in circumstance" to change access. Even if it is a phone call. Especially if the other party won't agree to the change.

            FINAL orders are meant to be FINAL.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
              In a matter where custody and access that is supposedly is settled FINAL you will require a "material changer in circumstance" to change access. Even if it is a phone call. Especially if the other party won't agree to the change.

              FINAL orders are meant to be FINAL.
              Well, I guess someone's ego got bruised. The FINAL order states the following:

              6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.

              The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls. Which means, then I can expect to deal with it through no longer existent parenting coordinator/arbitrator, CAS or in court. He's been warned by everyone to avoid bringing my son into the conflict, but beyond that there's nothing else to be done.

              I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum. Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son. I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us. If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.

              The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.

              Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.

              Comment


              • #22
                Voice of the Child Report

                Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

                I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

                If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

                Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                  Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

                  I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

                  If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

                  Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.
                  That was the reason we included a parenting coordinator/arbitrator in the order. BUT, Dad was way too difficult for the person handle and ended the term and wished not to renew.

                  OCL in its report concluded exactly what you stated above, that despite what evidence is presented to Dad at the end of investigation of an allegation, he is unlikely to accept and will continue to keep litigating or bringing the allegation to a new source to investigate.

                  He even forced my son to make a video alleging I don't providing him access thereby preventing my son to call. The parenting coordinator/arbitrator, who was provided the video, correctly concluded my son had been forced, and like any child in that situation, would choose to please the parent in front of him to avoid conflict. Dad did not take it well. He brought the issue up on an affidavit when we argued a motion for security for costs. Judge did not address it as we have a parenting coordinator. So the next step was CAS, who closed the file two weeks later.

                  Sadly, at this point, Dad is convinced when my son is 12, he can make up his mind about where he wants to live, the "material change in circumstance", and keeps his harassment and yelling. No child should have to go through that.

                  As it's noted, during VoC process, the child must be interviewed at his dad once. I am sure Dad will consent to VoC, BUT it may be extremely stressful and traumatizing for my son to have it done at his dad. I wonder if the interviews can be done in a neutral setting? Like his school?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by denbigh View Post
                    http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/f...ecp/voi2a.html

                    I found this link which explains it for each province, starting at the bottom of the first page, and continuing on page 2
                    I completely missed this post. Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by denbigh View Post
                        I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
                        I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                          6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.
                          Then why are you even bothering to get a "voice of the child" report if this is the exact wording? Why even go to court unless you are the respondent in the matter.

                          Access telephone calls work this way:

                          Child of 3 years typically can last 3 minutes on the phone.
                          Child of 5 years typically can last 5 minutes on the phone.
                          (See the pattern?)

                          Furthermore, most orders reasonably put ONE CALL in a 5-day stretch where a child is not residing with the parent. A judge will not order every day. At most, it could be adjusted to 1 calls in every 5 days of non-contact... That is if the child is <14 years of age.

                          >14 years of age... you will get exactly what you already have ordered.


                          Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                          The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls.
                          The rule is 1 call in 5 days when the child does not reside (have access) with the other parent. That is common knowledge. At the minimum, you should be making the child call 1 time every 5 days with no access. You should be enforcing this minimum rule with an 11 year old child and have a log book of the resulting punishment for not doing so. A court will expect you to facilitate calls at this minimum rate.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum.
                            You clearly haven't been on this forum very long then.

                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son.
                            Yet you post on public forums with an assumed name asking for "help" from (as you state below) mentally ill individuals. :P

                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us.
                            Guess all you want. The only reason I am here is to assist others... Like WorkingDad, LovingFather32, and a number of all successful contributors to this forum.

                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.
                            This is where assumptions are incorrectly made. I contribute to this forum as a social experiment and to train a software system I have developed.

                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.
                            Actually, I respond to all threads and on this forum you don't get to choose who responds. Feel free to put me on "ignore" but, I will continue to respond with my opinions and support them with facts. This is for the benefit of the much larger audience of yourself. The hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum. To ensure they don't do things like you are doing and waste court resources and personal finances on nonsense.

                            Originally posted by WorkingMom2007 View Post
                            Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.
                            Like most high conflict people you are looking for reinforcement of the answer you already have formed. You are not actually looking for advice or help. You are simply seeking negative advocates to support your bad ideas.

                            https://www.highconflictinstitute.co...vocates-or-not

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by denbigh View Post
                              do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
                              You are correct. They need to be court ordered or agreed upon by both parties. If they are one sided they are useless.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by momof2teenboys View Post
                                I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.
                                You are 100% correct. These are called "backdoor assessments".

                                See this article for more details: http://www.yoursocialworker.com/s-ar...ssessments.htm

                                Comment

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