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  • Time at Grand Parents

    I've done a search on here and google and can't seem to find the answer to this question.

    We recently seperated and currently going through the separation negotiations, trying to hash out an agreement.

    We have joint custody of our daughter, and it's around 50/50. I want to keep it 50/50 for two reasons, I want to spend time with her, and I don't want to lose her, but also, for financial reasons, if I fall under 40%, I would have to pay about 500$ more to my ex-wife.

    My ex-wife had to work yesterday and her partner was in bed sick, so she called my parents and dropped my daughter off there for the day.

    My parents are completly on my side, and if anything would happen, they would call me first. They are neutral simply because they want what's best for my daughter. However, would this count as time that I had my daughter for custody calculation?

  • #2
    I would think that since she was at your parents, that it was not your time. Especially if they called them, not you.
    Last edited by billiechic; 07-22-2009, 08:41 AM. Reason: spelling

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    • #3
      My impression is that it was a one of a kind emergency type situation, and you were not present during the visit, nor did you agree or disagree about your daughter being at your parents' place. I would think that this would not count as your time, as it you did not participate in the visit nor were you part of the decision making process about the visit.

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      • #4
        What if it's a more regular basis.

        From time to time, my ex-wife will ask me to take her for the night, and unfortunatly I can't take her. So, I bring her to my parents and they watch her for the night.

        I'm not looking for one situation, mostly looking in general.

        Is there a guideline somewhere as to how custody time is defined? It seems so important, being over or under 40% could cost you a lot of SS per month, yet I have never seen how to calculate it, nor what constitutes your time.

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        • #5
          Really, I don't know.
          But I'd be careful as right now your x wife is calling you and asking if you would like to have more time with your child which is excellent, and when you can't you bring her to spend time with your parents, which is also excellent for your daughter. Now, you x wife becomes 'worried' about the money that she may not receive, then she might phone a babysitter and not give you that option at all. Do you have anything in your agreement that would give you or your family first consideration over a babysitter, to protect against that happening?
          In my mind though, if it is not a regular thing and just occasional, then I would not still not count it as your time. Though if it becomes more regular...that would change

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          • #6
            Are you both in agreement with going forward with a 50/50 custody arrangement. If you are then there really should not be any issue, if not then I would presume if you are counting days then likely considered your time.

            You should feel very fortunate that you have this extra time with your child, it could very well be the opposite as it is for many.

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            • #7
              It astounds me how some people as you worry more about the money than your child. Stop nickle and diming and consider it a gift to get the extra time.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 2boys View Post
                It astounds me how some people as you worry more about the money than your child. Stop nickle and diming and consider it a gift to get the extra time.
                I don't think he is worried about nickels and dimes, but rather this whole 60/40 retarded idea that 39% time = 100% support and 41% time = 50% support, when it comes to calculating support.

                Some people try to play this and, though they agree with the 50/50 concept, their greed and self centered views try to manipulate the time such that the other ends up with 39% time so that they have to pay full CS. What a way to treat your family - manipulate the times for an unfair financial gain.

                He is simply (and reasonably) concerned that his ex is trying to pull this.

                I recall early on in my separation, my ex starting to talk about all the hours she was watching the kids (exact numbers!) on 'my' time - she was keeping detailed records. Because I did not know of such things I was naive about her intentions - which was to on the surface agree to 50/50 but want support as if it was 100/0! I thought I was doing her a favour and being flexible (she was not working at the time), when in reality she was surreptitiously trying to steal access and money from me! Her lawyer no doubt was whispering in her ear on how to play me. Not an honourable way to treat the father of your children.
                Last edited by billm; 07-22-2009, 06:07 PM.

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                • #9
                  Thanks Bill.

                  The monetary issue is a far second. The first, by far, is the well being of my daughter.

                  After that, it's my well being.

                  However, we are divided fairly 50/50 now. What I'm scared about is how lawyers will interpret this. I'm afraid that due to a technicality, it will be viewed that I only had 39,9% custody this month, instead of the 55% I calculated and because of that, I will have to sign a cheque for 600$ to her.

                  And, she's called me at the last minute to see if I could take my daughter, and I've cancelled plans to take her. There is nothing in the world that I'd rather do then spend time with her. But, life isn't as simple, there is never just one factor. And, unfortunatly, divorce and separations are even more complex and have several 100 page documents to explain simple concepts. I am just trying to protect myself in case the sh*t hits the fan.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Foredeck View Post
                    What if it's a more regular basis.

                    From time to time, my ex-wife will ask me to take her for the night, and unfortunatly I can't take her. So, I bring her to my parents and they watch her for the night.

                    I'm not looking for one situation, mostly looking in general.

                    Is there a guideline somewhere as to how custody time is defined? It seems so important, being over or under 40% could cost you a lot of SS per month, yet I have never seen how to calculate it, nor what constitutes your time.
                    I wonder if your parents have the child then should the time not be divided by three. Say 40% for you 40% for her and then 20% for you parents? When then child is staying overnight with your parents neither you or your ex actually have custody of the child at that time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                      I wonder if your parents have the child then should the time not be divided by three. Say 40% for you 40% for her and then 20% for you parents? When then child is staying overnight with your parents neither you or your ex actually have custody of the child at that time.
                      Ok, then how does the custody go in that way? If it's 40/40/20, does that mean that between me and my ex, we're both at 50%?

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                      • #12
                        I'm a little late chiming in, but I have a slightly different perspective you may want to consider. Custody time is normally divided between the parents. If you have your child, it's your custody time. If you are unable to be with your child physically and need to rely on someone else (i.e. your parents, a babysitter, another family member, a neighbour) then that should still be considered your custody time. After all, the child is in YOUR care, and YOU are deciding whose care to leave her in when you are unavailable. Does that make sense?

                        So if you have your daughter 40% of the time, and you take her to your parents for 20% of your time, then your custody time should be 60%.

                        In my personal opinion, leaving your child in the care of family or friends when you are unavailable is the same as leaving your child at daycare or with a babysitter.

                        Just my two cents.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by #1StepMom View Post
                          So if you have your daughter 40% of the time, and you take her to your parents for 20% of your time, then your custody time should be 60%.

                          In my personal opinion, leaving your child in the care of family or friends when you are unavailable is the same as leaving your child at daycare or with a babysitter.

                          Just my two cents.
                          Ok, but, for this instance for example, it was her evening, she was unable to be physically with our daughter, so she called my parents. It was supposed to be her day, and she found a babysitter to watch my daughter (my parents).

                          I guess the consensus is that there's no clarification and it depends on who's the judge at the time.

                          Also, in my case, it's not 40/40/20. My parents have her 2 or 3 nights per month, with me having her about 14 days. I'm just trying to make sure I understand everything before it becomes an issue.

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                          • #14
                            Foredeck, I guess you can see it in two ways:

                            If it's her time, and she calls you to take your daughter because she cannot, then that becomes your time... if it happens on the regular every month. Otherwise a judge may simply view it as a "gift" of extra time. What you do with your daughter during that time, whether you watch her yourself or ask your parents to watch her is fully at your discretion.

                            Now, if she bypasses you and arranges care for your daughter herself, even if it's with your parents, then a judge will likely consider it her time.

                            If I were you, I'd try to encourage her to contact you personally to schedule your time with your daughter. It is then up to you whether you pick her up and drop her off or you send your parents in your place. I would try to get that in writing each time it occurs so that you may show a consistent pattern.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with #1 Stepmom. If she is calling and arranging for care (regrdless if it is your family) then it is her time. The arrangements had nothing to do with you and there may be times when you don't even know your parents have your child. I don't think it should be considered your time unless you arranged it.

                              I do think that you should be offered preference if she nees someone to watch the kids. They are yours and you deserve to see them whenever possible. I'm sure you would call her first as well if something came up and you needed a sitter, right?

                              Comment

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