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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:12 PM
Divorce in ON $1B A Year Divorce in ON $1B A Year is offline
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Default Example Case for Post Secondary Expense

Sencond Wife,

I strongly recommend making an offer to contribute to post secondary expenses ASAP - you not want this going to court - you will get nailed!!!

There are guidlelines for determining the split for extraordinary expenses, but they are only used when the parties can not agree. I forget where they are exactly (in the law rules document). Generally the split is 50/50 between child and parents, then split proportional based on income between parents. Divorced parents have to pay - whether it makes sense or not.

The child is expected to contribute something toward post secondary education. However, there are situtations,like high income earning parent(s), where child contribution is reduced .

Extraordinary expense covers everything, so expect to pay for tution, books, lodging, travel,...

Ask for OSAP application IF you figure she is entitled to receive something based on both parents income. OSAP has calculator for this. Courts view as been that OSAP is not there to supplant family contribution - it assumes support would be provided if the family never divorced.

Here is what happened to us:
Background: I'm the payor remarried with two kids
Plus one child with EX
At the time of filing I lost my job!

EX, EX's spouse and child concoct plan to get full OSAP $11,400 while EX receives CS. Child moves out of EX's house to file OSAP papers as independent adult. Child does not work. NCP (me) kept in the dark. Plan blows up when OSAP rejects application becuase EX does not file taxes. New plan sue NCP for 100% post-secondary expenses. NCP counters with offer to pay 50% of post-secondary. Offer rejected. Over 18 months of legal wrangling including appeal by EX. Meanwhile...child goes to 1st school taking less than full course load. Child bombs major and is dismissed. No problem, go to another school using earlier acceptance for new program (against admission rules) - no discussion with NCP. Court order, held up in appeal, that child pay 50% and each parent 25%. Less than originally offerred. EX realizes that they have to pay...suddenly NCP receives notice from FRO that support payment is no longer going to be collected based on EX's request...and no Mr. NCP you can not see a copy of the request to stop support. Net result: Child goes to two schools and does not get an education and does not receive a dime from EX even though NCP pays FRO. Parents pay more is legal fees than cost of a degree. ...and then...child waits for a year...and gets full OSAP as an independent adult cause edumacatsun is important!

Long story, but I hope you get the point; If EX or child is a wacko you can go through hell getting this sorted out. Make a reasonable offer to support her education, do not be cheap, and get in writing fast! Talk directly to daughter.
  #12  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:45 PM
catchison catchison is offline
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I understand where you are coming from, KK, but unfortunately if there are not some hard and fast rules, you would find a lot of NCP would choose not to help if they had the choice, and although I hate to say this there are a few evil stepmothers out there who are part of this problem. There was a recent article in the papers about the fact that stepmoms unfortunately view the first family as competition for the resources of the man they are now with, and they are frequently behind some of the adversarial situations that go on regarding support for first families. Its too bad they didn't measure the consequences of marrying men with obligations but it seems they believe they have the right to put the poor guy in the middle making demands to put 2nd families priorities over those of the children in the first. My sis is a stepmom and I know she is the exact opposite of this, however I know many others who are not. It is horrible for the children when the father makes efforts to dismiss his responsibilities, they see their own mother suffer financially trying to do what is right for thier future, spending much needed resources in court fighting the NCP for every cent. I believe the NCP has the responsibility to make sure he is well involved with his children, so he or she knows about grades etc, and has done all he or she can to ensure that the kids will do well. Too often it is the CP who has had the entire burden of homework, helping with selecting the schools and every other duty of two parents. The NCP only has something to say when they are forced to pay for whatever choices are made. Choices they could have been involved in but frequently aren't. It takes effort to be involved with children in separated families. This is why everyone out there now who have intact families should think very carefully about the wisdom of letting their marriage fall into disrepair. The suffering that goes on for years afterward, in particular for the children, the financial implications for the single mother are horrendous and the legacy this leaves for our future generations is dismal.
Perhaps our governments should insist on a marital repair process when people approach lawyers for divorce info. No divorce allowed otherwise.
Studies have shown many NCP, 10 yrs after a divorce that they implemented would not have gone through with it if they knew how everything was going to work out, for them, their children and their extended families. The existence of this forum certainly just touches on the grief marital breakdown causes. And the lawyers have a hayday lining their pockets trying to get us all to disagree with one another.Wouldn't it be refreshing if the NCP would just try to work with the CP for the best outcome for the children? I still say the NCP should pay their share according to his or her financial means, and stop the whining. this will ensure the kids don't end up on the street, or back on his or her doorstep looking for more money because they can't support themselves.
Extended education is a must these days unless you want your child to be at a disadvantage. This problem is frequently more about how can I keep money out of my exwifes pocket than worrying about the welfare of the kids, and those who made our current support laws know this.
  #13  
Old 10-02-2009, 02:16 PM
billiechic billiechic is offline
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I come from a divorced home with a father who never paid a dime of support. When I applied for OSAP I had been living on my own for a whole year, working to support myself. My sister (who applied at the same time) was also on her own, but recieving student welfare to support her last year of high school. I STILL had to report my father's income on my OSAP application and the loan was based on that, NOT my income! What a crock!

Anyway, my point is that I had to support myself. In 4 years I accumulated $37000 of debt, which I have been paying back as quickly as I can. Nobody gave me a dime, but I did it anyway. I don't blame my parents for not contributing (though they could have, at least a little) because I earned my degree myself.

Parents don't owe their kids this kind of money (IMO). If they choose to support you, and can afford to, GREAT, but support comes in many forms, not just money. Ultimately money given for university and college should be a gift and not required by law or a court. you can't get blood from a stone, right?
  #14  
Old 10-02-2009, 05:42 PM
representingself representingself is offline
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Fact is, the laws about financially supporting 'adult children' need to be changed.

Ok, so a college/university degree is a necessity nowadays... I agree.

And our generations' youth are so spoiled that some wouldn't even consider working part time during high school to pay for this educational necessity.

So the burden lies on the parents and the tax payers. (OSAP isn't free money).

In most cases, the NCP struggles for YEARS to pay their CS and Alimony and surivive.... let alone setting aside more cash for a RESP.

Now when thier children reach 18 years of age, and choose to continue their education.... the NCP's have to pay THOUSANDS of $$$$$ for at least 50% of the tuition, fees, books, parking, residence, meal plans..etc, etc, etc.

And if the 'adult child' is living away from the CP's home, the Judges in this country continue to demand CS payments because the CP keeps a "room" available for weekends and holidays... that's a total CROCK!!

Couples who don't divorce aren't forced by the Government to pay for their childrens education...yet divorced parents are.

There is NO REASON why a CP needs to continue to receive CS payments after their child has gone off to college.. even if they have a "room" at home.

CS payments should cancelled, OR sent to the 'adult child' directly.
  #15  
Old 10-02-2009, 05:56 PM
billiechic billiechic is offline
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This might be off topic, but OSAP is a loan...meaning you are responsible for paying it back. I know that a few years back there were a lot of bankrupcies claimed to erase this debt, but now you cannot claim bankrupcy on an OSAP loan. OSAP money might come from the taxpayers, but it is a loan from them.

I do agree that divorced parents shouldn't be forced to pay for university and college. Myself, I am planning on giving my daughter as much as I can, regardless of whatever the courts "order" me to pay. The key to avoiding such a large sum is of course to start saving when they are small, then the money will be there (or a a lot of it) when the time comes.
  #16  
Old 10-02-2009, 09:26 PM
representingself representingself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiechic View Post
Myself, I am planning on giving my daughter as much as I can, regardless of whatever the courts "order" me to pay. The key to avoiding such a large sum is of course to start saving when they are small, then the money will be there (or a a lot of it) when the time comes.
Please don't take offense but...

You have the ability to give "as much as you can, regardless of whatever the courts "order" you to pay".

NCP's who have been ordered to pay educational fees under section 7 do not have a choice in the matter.

The costs are sent to FRO and payments are enforced as if it was child support arrears.

Their choice.... pay or go to jail for 180 days with no good time...and THEN pay!!

As far as saving.....

Lets say you have a 'decent' job and gross $50,000 per year, (net approx. $35,000 which equals $2917 net per month),

You are divorced with 3 children.... you pay $986 per month in child support.

Those kids enjoy very few, inexpensive extra-curriculars
(you pay 50% @ $25 per month, per child = $75)

You were married 10 years, so now your ex wife gets alimony @ $500 per month for the next 10 years....

$ 2917
- $ 986
- $ 75
- $ 500

Leaves you a grand total of $1356 per month,
$800 rent for 1 bdrm appartment, h&h inclusive
$200 car payment
$100 car & court ordered life insurance
$30 telephone - no long distance
$40 basic cable
Leaves you a grand total of $186 per month (or $6.20 per day), for gas, food, toiletries, and all of your very basic necessities....

And don't forget the thou$and$ in legal fees that you now owe because you fought to have the rights to "visit" your own children twice a month!

How do you save money when you can barely afford to feed and clothe yourself?

Where is the "key" to avoiding this problem.... other than never get married and not having children?

  #17  
Old 10-02-2009, 09:27 PM
representingself representingself is offline
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Default Osap....

OSAP is a loan...funded by the Ontario taxpayer, and is subject to 'loan forgiveness', wherein the borrower only pays back a portion of the original amount.

As of today's date, an eligible student can borrow a maximum of $16,500 for a 2 semester term, (8 months).

The Ontario Government limits the amount of Canada-Ontario student loan debt to that an eligible student has to pay to $7000 for the same two term study period.

Therefore, we the taxpayer swallows up to $9500 per student, for each academic year.

To qualify for assistance the student must:

- Be a Canadian citizen
- Lived in Ontario for the past 12 months
- Attending an approved educational institution
- Enrolled in an approved program of study
- Taking at least 60% of a full course load
- Previous loans in good standing
- Must maintain satisfactory academic progress

A student must report both parents income. If the income is too high, they will not be eligible for assistance.

You CAN file for bankruptsy for Canada-Ontario student loans as long as you haven't been a student for a minimum of 7 years. If you file for bankruptsy within 7 years of graduating, your student loans will not be discharged.
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