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SecondWife · #1 09-29-2009, 08:43 AM

Here is some background...
My husband is paying support for his 2 children (17 and 12)
We have a child together, and his ex has another child with her new husband.
The agreement between them has been mutually agreed, and not enforced by the courts.
He is paying less then what is on the "tables" based on his salary, and has the kids basically every other weekend, and whenever he or they want.

She is asking for a document to be put in writing regarding paying for post secondary education. And we have some questions.

Are there forms available that we could use as a guideline without having to go to a lawyer.
Can we request that she apply for OSAP?
Can we request that she (their daughter) get a job to help pay for expenses. (EX has not been encouraging her to get a job!!)
Can he then say that will will split the difference?
What are we required to pay? Tuition and books only? Do we have to pay for accommodation as well if he is paying support monthly?

Thanks so much!

HCA · #2 09-29-2009, 09:13 AM

I would be interested to hear about this as well, as I am about to hit this issue and my ex feels that I should be paying in full (all costs as sect 7 expenses in accordance with our breakdown), which I find unreasonable and cannot do without further reducing my already considerably reduced income and further reducing my already substandard quality of life.

I know there is case law out there but I would expect that all finacial avenues would be exhausted prior to having to pay. I am not adverse to paying some but as I put myself through university working a full time job and full time school as well as student loans, the expectation that children from divorce whould get a free ride is well unreasonable in my opinion. The sense of entitlement rankles me.

ibroxbilly · #3 09-29-2009, 11:57 AM

Yes forms are available at any of the superior court offices, and yes you can request she apply for OSAP. In fact this is the norm. No you can't request that she gets a job, however it would be in her best interest to, living expenses are not cheap. Im my own opinion you would be better off going strictly by the CS guidelines. By using the CS guidelines you are staying on the right side of any future claims the Ex may think of making. I currently have 2 children at Uni and the Ex has made several extraordinary expense claims which have been denied by the court because I am contributing at exactly the right rate. The CS guidelines take into account living expenses and tuition, books. The latter is what OSAP is used for.

HCA · #4 09-29-2009, 12:22 PM

Where does it have a breakdown in the CSGs about the "right rate" and can you provide a link here? This is an important topic for alot of folks I suspect and my concern is that I will have to pay 80% of special expenses (tution, books, etc). Thats a pretty penny that I don't have....actualy I have some lint in my pocket thats about all....

Any assitannce you can provide secondwife and I would be approeciated

ibroxbilly · #5 09-30-2009, 01:09 PM

You can go to the department of justice Canada website and look up the CSG's for you situation, one child or two. Take into account what you are currently paying and compare this with the CSG's. Remember when doing this that this fulfills your obligation to this child. Advise your Ex that they are also responsible for 50% of expenses for Uni. You are not the sole payor for this, also advise that OSAP is meant to be used for tuition and books and also living accomodation. I have one child who is finishing Uni next year but wants to go for another 4 years. Any case law I have read tells me that my obligation is complete. However the Ex doesn't agree, so make sure you cover all of this when filing. Papers are available for free at the court and they will tell you what you need and file them in the proper ordere when you return them. I have been doin this for 5 yearsd and have not spent a single penny on a lawyer.

catchison · #6 10-01-2009, 02:11 AM

Presuming that you do want to help your child get an education and that you are willing to help out, the maximum a court usually orders is 50% of all costs including on and off campus residence. It is not always a given that the child is expected to contribute especially if the non custodial parent has the means to provide.. OSAP is only awarded to children if the parents haven't the means to pay themselves so don't hold your breath on that one. Do you really want your child to have debt when they graduate if you can afford to help them? The fair compromise is that you pay one third, the child pays a third and your ex spouse the other third. Right now it is very difficult if not impossible for kids to find jobs in this economy so don't be too tough on the student whose main job is to get an education so they are self supporting. Second wives should really not get too involved in these matters. It just infuriates the first wives, upsets the kids, and results in big legal fees that could be going to the childs education. First families can usually detect the hand of the second wife in these conflicts so best to be as fair as possible.

representingself · #7 10-01-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catchison

OSAP is only awarded to children if the parents haven't the means to pay themselves so don't hold your breath on that one.

Catchison is correct. OSAP is designed to help out low income students/families who have no other means to attend a post secondary educational program.

If the child has access to any RESP, savings, parents with $$$$, then he/she wouldn't qualify for OSAP.

I would suggest a student loan/line fo credit from a financial institution such as a Bank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catchison

Right now it is very difficult if not impossible for kids to find jobs in this economy so don't be too tough on the student whose main job is to get an education so they are self supporting.

Again, I agree. If the child is a serious student, then being forced to work while attending school can be stressful and their studies can suffer. However, many, many, many people have to work while at school, and they manage to do just fine.

Having your parents pay for some/all of your post secondary education is a LUXURY that most kids just don't get...

If a "nuclear family" is able to afford to help, then that's great, if they can't, then they can't.

Yet after a divorce, the Government dictates that the parents MUST provide financial assistance to their adult children.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catchison

Second wives should really not get too involved in these matters. It just infuriates the first wives, upsets the kids, and results in big legal fees that could be going to the childs education. First families can usually detect the hand of the second wife in these conflicts so best to be as fair as possible.

I agree and disagree with this statement.

Yes, having your ex's new spouse interfere in your life can be frustrating and annoying.

But what affects the second wives husband, affects the second wife. And it is understandable that she would want to protect and help her man.

Sometimes it's best if the first wife can get over her jealousy and try to see things from the other side as well.

HCA · #8 10-01-2009, 10:42 AM

Don't presume I don't love or want to help my kids....without knowing my situation or the context of my relationship with them...thats a bold presumption to make

I never said that I would not pay a portion. The problem is the expectation that children from broken marriages are "entitled" to a free ride. I put myself through college and then university without support from my parents and incurred some student loans. Its a fact of life. Osap only takes into account the custodial parent's income and the provision of Canada student loans is available and its not only for low income families...its for the middle class of which I am part of....and I don't have bags of money hiding in the closet....

1000s of people work and go to school.....and get good degrees as a result such as myself.....its called life.

I agree with representing self

Sometimes it's best if the first wife can get over her jealousy and try to see things from the other side as well...but in my case that won't happen....I "ruined" my ex-spouse's life and he/she has never taken responsibility that it takes two to make a marriage and two to break a marriage as the old addage goes....I will need to keep paying and paying and paying...both figuratively and literally.....no matter what I do, I will be painted as the bad guy here and I live with that every day.....I have moved on with life and I am to be demonized for that....what a crock

there are no free rides in life...and from the context or the framing of your response catchison, I suspect I won't get little sympathy from you for this response but I can accept that....and thats life again...

catchison · #9 10-02-2009, 12:21 AM

It would be easy to assume that there is jealousy on the side of the first wife, and in your case perhaps some justifiable bitterness as well, however many first wives just want to move on too, and their main concern is the welfare of the children. It is for the betterment of our society that Canadian children are supported as much as is reasonable by both parents to have access to education that makes our country as a whole more competitive on the world stage. If you both made some mistakes, that is real life, yes take ownership for it, but had you stayed together I would hope you would have ensured that your kids had the best you could give them. One day you will be glad you helped to give them a hand up in the world and maybe your ex and they will look more kindly upon you as a result and have nice things to say about you at your funeral. Our govenment is not only acting to protect the rights of children to enjoy the fruits of their parents monetary success but also to keep Canadians as educated as possible for the collective good of the country. I applaud their efforts to do so, and have little sympathy for parents who use their own education experiences to dodge financial responsibility for their own children. Its a different world out there now, and I think everyone agrees that a higher education is more important now than it was 30 years ago and indeed almost expected. Look on the bright side- your children will grow up, your support will end, and maybe they will help you out when you need it in your old age if you help them now. This IS about your kids, not your ex.

kamkatie · #10 10-02-2009, 09:51 AM

Catchison, I think the problem for most NCPs and college/univeristy is that they are forced to pay. Most NCPs understand the importance of a higher education and would like to help. But being told when/how much/how long takes their choices away and instead of their contribution being appreciated as the gift it is, it is instead looked at as expected and they are looked at askance if they dare to question programs, grades etc.

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