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  • #16
    Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
    Well, early 30's anyway
    Lol. Fair enough. I was 39 before I finally made a good decision! Those of you who who can do it earlier, I envy you... Haha.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Janibel View Post
      The cognitive distortion induced by emotion is the reason I remained in a bad situation for so long. Nowadays, I'm able to see him for the person he truly is without the benefit of my own dilusions ... Momma was right all along!
      Momma doesn't always know. He fooled my mother, not to mention me, and almost everyone else. Except for my Dad. My Dad was one of the most intelligent people I have ever known. It wasn't until very recently that I realized that my Dad knew all along that my STBX was not the right person for me.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Qrious View Post
        Momma always knows. Mine knew. And really? So did I. Makes me think that young adults aren't actually capable of making a good decision until they're in their 40's! Lol!
        Add me to the list of people whose mother never liked my ex, but kept her mouth shut. Afterwards, she told me she'd always thought he was manipulative. Well, yes, I did know that, I just never thought he'd turn it on me.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          Add me to the list of people whose mother never liked my ex, but kept her mouth shut. Afterwards, she told me she'd always thought he was manipulative. Well, yes, I did know that, I just never thought he'd turn it on me.
          Interesting how so many of us (male or female) refuse to listen to our gut instincts, believing that 'we' will be the exception and not get bitten by the snake in the grass?

          ''Love is not only blind, it is deaf and dumb''.

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          • #20
            I've got a long list of people who told me after I left the ex that they never liked him, thought he was arrogant and controlling, etc. I don't know if they actually thought that and just didn't say anything for 20 years, or if they think this is what I want to hear (which it isn't, really - it just makes me feel dumb for not picking up on what was apparently obvious to others).

            My mom, to her credit, told me once after we separated that she thought the ex's post-separation legal carryings-on made him "look like an idiot", and beyond that has never commented on his character.

            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
            Add me to the list of people whose mother never liked my ex, but kept her mouth shut. Afterwards, she told me she'd always thought he was manipulative. Well, yes, I did know that, I just never thought he'd turn it on me.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
              Yes, four years in and my ex was one of my best friends up until about a year and a half ago. Then he changed, started to become spiteful, and manipulative, had a sudden interest in the kids whereas for the previous 16 years had next to no interest in parenting. I was glad when he decided finally to do some parenting, but it seems it only extends to undermining me as often as possible and questions my parenting at every opportunity.

              People change, life changes people - not always for the better, and it sucks.

              Wow, I could have written this myself.
              My ex was always an $#%), but after we split up (4 years ago), we got along better than we ever did for about a year, he was interested in the kids and interested in parenting whenever he could.

              Then all of a sudden, he practically stopped calling the kids, and we started arguing. We haven't gotten along since. And he has gotten more and more mean and spiteful towards me. He's interested in parenting now, but like you, blink, a lot of it involves undermining me and attempts at making me into a bad guy.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Janibel View Post
                Interesting how so many of us (male or female) refuse to listen to our gut instincts, believing that 'we' will be the exception and not get bitten by the snake in the grass?

                ''Love is not only blind, it is deaf and dumb''.
                You can add me to that list.

                Like Roie, many of my family and friends came right out and told me they never liked him and always knew he was manipulative after we split up.

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                • #23
                  Hmmm...I'm not sure if my ex has changed or not.

                  He was a miserable b*stard when we were married and seems like he's the same but I'm not sure...I have very little contact with him and the couple times we've had to suffer being in the same room during court proceedings lately...I don't make eye contact or look in his direction.

                  I can say that I've definitely changed in the way I handle him which has led to much easier parenting communications. His email used to be rude and annoying and which I'd just not react to...now its to the point and neutral which is really all I care about. Since he's always the one who needs schedule changes, etc...if he starts any crap, I just start saying "no"...something he's not used to. If he behaves himself, then I am more flexible. Its like handling a bad dog or a toddler having a temper tantrum. He gets rewarded for good behavior only.

                  For a while, he was sending legal letters and email about my boyfriend(s) and dangerous lifestyle (I only have one but the plural was an attempt to insult me). I never bothered to respond and I had a pretty good time laughing about it with my family and friends.

                  Apparently, he must have said something disparaging about my multiple men to my kid too because at one point, my bf called, she answered the phone and said "who is this? its hard to keep up with all the guys coming in and out around here."

                  Again, I never bothered to respond to his nonsense and it eventually stopped. It seems as those things are calming down a bit with us having reached a final custody/access agreement. But I wouldn't be completely surprised to have the same experience with sudden changes in his behavior at some point.

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                  • #24
                    I've got a long list of people who told me after I left the ex that they never liked him, thought he was arrogant and controlling, etc. I don't know if they actually thought that and just didn't say anything for 20 years, or if they think this is what I want to hear (which it isn't, really - it just makes me feel dumb for not picking up on what was apparently obvious to others).
                    Everyone that knew us thought basically we didn't match as a couple. In fact, if we'd go to a party and you didn't know us...you wouldn't have thought we were even together...we'd naturally stay away from each other if given a choice...so parties involved him with a group of people and me, far away with a different group of people.

                    We didn't look or act like a couple and it never really felt like we were a couple either. I never really felt like he was acting in my best interest or that he was on my side...or that I had a friend or partner. I think everyone that knew us probably thought the same thing too. If I had a dime for every person that asked me "Why are you with him?"...I'd be in the Forbes Top 10 richest.

                    He said he was "blindsided" by me wanting a divorce...he was the only one that was surprised...including our kids.

                    Divorce is often a good thing.
                    Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 07-08-2013, 12:23 PM.

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                    • #25
                      I'm not sure what to make of the dog-training metaphor, but I have had the same experience with, perhaps we could call it behavior modification, with the ex. He was a big fan of sending tons of crazynastygrams many screens long. I started responding with the same message over and over: basically "I do not read or answer messages which contain insulting language or personal attacks. If you have information you want to convey, please send a new message which is civil and objective". After a while, he stopped because he wasn't getting the reaction he wanted. I now get patronizing passive-aggressive nastygrams, but these are easier to deal with than the whacked-out rants. I suspect the whacked-out rants will resurface whenever he's under some stress.

                      The trick is that I had to train myself first, out of the habit of reacting to this stuff, despite the urge to "set the record straight" or "clarify things" or anything like that. I still ask myself three questions when I see new email from him:

                      1. Is it civil?
                      2. Is it related to D7?
                      3. Is there a direct question or request for information?

                      If the answer to all three is "yes", then I'll respond. If not - no response is required. It's amazing how much communication doesn't need a reply.



                      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                      Hmmm...I'm not sure if my ex has changed or not.


                      I can say that I've definitely changed in the way I handle him which has led to much easier parenting communications. His email used to be rude and annoying and which I'd just not react to...now its to the point and neutral which is really all I care about. Since he's always the one who needs schedule changes, etc...if he starts any crap, I just start saying "no"...something he's not used to. If he behaves himself, then I am more flexible. Its like handling a bad dog or a toddler having a temper tantrum. He gets rewarded for good behavior only.

                      For a while, he was sending legal letters and email about my boyfriend(s) and dangerous lifestyle (I only have one but the plural was an attempt to insult me). I never bothered to respond and I had a pretty good time laughing about it with my family and friends.

                      Apparently, he must have said something disparaging about my multiple men to my kid too because at one point, my bf called, she answered the phone and said "who is this? its hard to keep up with all the guys coming in and out around here."

                      Again, I never bothered to respond to his nonsense and it eventually stopped. It seems as those things are calming down a bit with us having reached a final custody/access agreement. But I wouldn't be completely surprised to have the same experience with sudden changes in his behavior at some point.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ...despite the urge to "set the record straight" or "clarify things" or anything like that.
                        I think this is one of the most difficult things for some divorced people to deal with after the relationship is severed.

                        There is some very unrealistic expectation of "closure" after a divorce and its hard for people to realize that its not going to happen.

                        ...That argument that you had a million times in marriage isn't going to be successfully resolved after divorce.
                        ...he/she STILL isn't going to understand where you're coming from or sympathize with you.
                        ...he/she probably isn't going to have any ephiphany now that you're gone

                        I think a lot of the shenanigans that happen between divorced couples is not really about the children or divorce situation but stems from them still trying to get closure on the failed relationship...the inability to move on with their new life.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                          I think this is one of the most difficult things for some divorced people to deal with after the relationship is severed.

                          There is some very unrealistic expectation of "closure" after a divorce and its hard for people to realize that its not going to happen.

                          ...That argument that you had a million times in marriage isn't going to be successfully resolved after divorce.
                          ...he/she STILL isn't going to understand where you're coming from or sympathize with you.
                          ...he/she probably isn't going to have any ephiphany now that you're gone


                          I think a lot of the shenanigans that happen between divorced couples is not really about the children or divorce situation but stems from them still trying to get closure on the failed relationship...the inability to move on with their new life.
                          This is because separation and divorce (legal) isn't about "closure" it is about moving forward generally. If someone is seeking emotional closure through the court system, they are going to be facing a large legal bill. It is only through years of often painful therapy that someone can truly find closure by reflecting, with professional assistance, on their own personal issues that leads them to the proper level of awareness and understanding about themselves that leads to proper closure in the event of a family breakdown.

                          A lot of litigants are focused on producing affidavits from friends, family and other people (and themselves) accounting every disagreement that the parties had dating back to the first disagreement they had. It isn't uncommon to see piles of irrelevant material before the family courts. They want the court to "vindicate" them as the better spouse, loving parent, etc... The court doesn't care really. No one really cares other than the litigant lamenting on and on about how "abused" they were in the relationship...

                          Even mundane disagreements put into "evidence" in affidavit format in an attempt to allege "emotional abuse". They continually attempt to use the courts to "find fault" but, for some reason haven't come to realize that it is a "no fault" civil proceeding...

                          Many people involved in divorce and separation, as you identified PH, cannot change their attitude and approach to each other. If one (or both parties) are still stuck on the negative path that lead to the ending of their relationship it will continue to undermined the parties’ ability to settle matters reasonably.

                          Family Law decisions rarely vindicate one party and disparage the other party. The family did not get to where they are (separation and divorce) generally speaking, due to the conduct of one of the party's conduct, it generally is because the reasons are far more complex and subtle than what a court needs to consider in most disputes or even would bother considering as "evidence".

                          The “truth” will not set any family free, because there is no one single truth in Family Law and there is definitely no closure.

                          Think-forward... It is very hard for people to do at such a stressful time in their lives. Much of which is being turned up-side-down for both parties to a separation and divorce.

                          To this point I will end with a quote from Phil Epstien, principal of Epstein Cole LLP who is a a highly regarded Family Law Lawyer in Ontario...

                          The Divorce that Never Ends:

                          The divorce that never ends - The Globe and Mail

                          "Family law is not a business deal between a willing seller and a willing buyer," notes Phil Epstein, principal of Epstein Cole LLP, whose longest case took 19 years to resolve because "there was no desire for years at a time for either party to move it along." Some delays happen because participants change lawyers. "It's notorious in family law because people feel that their expectations are not met," he says.
                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken
                          Last edited by Tayken; 07-08-2013, 02:16 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by OntarioMomma View Post
                            Wow, I could have written this myself.
                            My ex was always an $#%), but after we split up (4 years ago), we got along better than we ever did for about a year, he was interested in the kids and interested in parenting whenever he could.

                            Then all of a sudden, he practically stopped calling the kids, and we started arguing. We haven't gotten along since. And he has gotten more and more mean and spiteful towards me. He's interested in parenting now, but like you, blink, a lot of it involves undermining me and attempts at making me into a bad guy.
                            Sounds like he was enjoying being away from you and having his freedom and was in a good mood, probably dating, etc. Then the newness wore off, and he returned to blaming you for everything still going wrong in his life. Nice of him to provide you with regular confirmation that you did the right thing by splitting up!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                              Sounds like he was enjoying being away from you and having his freedom and was in a good mood, probably dating, etc. Then the newness wore off, and he returned to blaming you for everything still going wrong in his life. Nice of him to provide you with regular confirmation that you did the right thing by splitting up!

                              Oh, I can relate to this - my STBX imagined that single life as a 55 year old man would be no different than when he was 25? Reality has caught up with him and now he feels his life is over. He swings back and forth from wanting to reconcile, to making my life hell with ridiculous demands and unproductive court appearances.

                              He's doing me a service by behaving in this way - whatever doubts I may have had are gone!

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                              • #30
                                even without a divorce we are changing. Exactly this is why many of us divorce. After divorce the other's change is more noticeable because (if God helps us) we see them rarely.

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