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  • Weird situation with ex - advise please

    brief history for those who dont know.

    ex got me arrested and charged twice on 5 counts with false accusations, and had a third failed attempt with cops, after which contrary to my bail conditions she kept trying to initiate indirect communication, which i continued to deny to participate in because of the bail conditions, she was advised several times via counsel on how to restore direct & indirect communication legally, she chose not to take that option leading me to believe that she was only initiating indirect communication to have my bail voided. the criminal pretrial is in about a month's time.

    few days ago on the anniversary of my first arrest her counsel sent me an email stating that the ex now legally wants to restore direct and indirect communication because its in "the best interest of the child". that was a shocker as i wasnt expecting that consent after so long.

    next on the same day ex calls two of my friends for a "meeting" (friends have been facilitating access and since have been in constant contact with her) in the meeting she states that she has made grave mistakes against me (*referring to the false charges?) and loves me and wants to make things right and so on.

    two days later she calls same friends for another "meeting", they go over a second time and she states the same things again and asks for my number so that she can wish me happy birthday, I had already advised them to never give out my number to avoid any breach of bail, they gave her a number that she can only text on i.e. i dont respond = no breach of bail

    third day was my birthday, she calls one of the friends again to the mall and hands him over a big gift bag along with a rose for me saying this is a birthday present for me. friend calls me to accept the gift.

    this is where the situation got really tricky. i definitely dont want to send a message that i want continue the fight, but at the same time if i accepted the gift, the crown could argue "he was guilty, he wanted to get out of the situation and hence by accepting the gift he sent her a message that he is ready to make up" hence i told my friend to keep the gift in his care until i can get crim counsel's advise on it.

    she called my friend to see if i have accepted the gift and was disappointed that it was still with him.

    while the prelim is so close what is the appropriate course of action here? also if i accept the gift, what do i do on her bday which is up in a few days, i mean how would it be looked upon in the crim court if i returned her favor? not such a good idea to send her anything from the criminal matter perspective right?

  • #2
    Given how much grief this person has caused you, why are you even contemplating the notion of engaging with her indirectly? If I was you, I would document all this stuff about the gift but not respond/acknowledge in any shape or form. You are only inviting trouble by sharing your phone number (even if it is through a third party). Especially if you are facing criminal charges.

    Any communication in respect to the child/children should be via written email or via legal counsel.
    Last edited by Nadia; 10-09-2012, 02:43 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sahibjee:

      If you heard a story about a male abuser who psychologically or physically abused their partner...then made some extremely lame gesture of contrition to apologize for it...what would you think/say?

      The only "gift" you should consider from her is the one where she goes the crown and admits perjury. Then perhaps she pays you back an extremely hefty sum for the legal fees and mental anguish you've suffered.

      She left a rose and some lame hallmark shit at a friends and you're really confused as to what action to take here? Really???

      Let me lend you a braincell...STAY THE EFF AWAY FROM THIS CRAZY WOMAN. She will clearly go to any level to ruin your life. Unless she's offering the gift that I bolded/underlined above...what the hell are you thinking? You may want to get yourself into some therapy if you're even f'ing considering going anywhere near her or accepting any of her crap because you are NOT thinking straight.

      also if i accept the gift, what do i do on her bday which is up in a few days, i mean how would it be looked upon in the crim court if i returned her favor? not such a good idea to send her anything from the criminal matter perspective right?
      I'm sorry but I'm shaking my head still..are you kidding me? You're asking whether or not you should buy her a BIRTHDAY PRESENT AFTER SHE GOT YOU ARRESTED???? WTF??? SERIOUSLY???

      Dude, get some therapy...you are a hot mess.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
        brief history for those who dont know.

        ex got me arrested and charged twice on 5 counts with false accusations, and had a third failed attempt with cops, after which contrary to my bail conditions she kept trying to initiate indirect communication, which i continued to deny to participate in because of the bail conditions, she was advised several times via counsel on how to restore direct & indirect communication legally, she chose not to take that option leading me to believe that she was only initiating indirect communication to have my bail voided. the criminal pretrial is in about a month's time.

        few days ago on the anniversary of my first arrest her counsel sent me an email stating that the ex now legally wants to restore direct and indirect communication because its in "the best interest of the child". that was a shocker as i wasnt expecting that consent after so long.

        next on the same day ex calls two of my friends for a "meeting" (friends have been facilitating access and since have been in constant contact with her) in the meeting she states that she has made grave mistakes against me (*referring to the false charges?) and loves me and wants to make things right and so on.

        two days later she calls same friends for another "meeting", they go over a second time and she states the same things again and asks for my number so that she can wish me happy birthday, I had already advised them to never give out my number to avoid any breach of bail, they gave her a number that she can only text on i.e. i dont respond = no breach of bail

        third day was my birthday, she calls one of the friends again to the mall and hands him over a big gift bag along with a rose for me saying this is a birthday present for me. friend calls me to accept the gift.

        this is where the situation got really tricky. i definitely dont want to send a message that i want continue the fight, but at the same time if i accepted the gift, the crown could argue "he was guilty, he wanted to get out of the situation and hence by accepting the gift he sent her a message that he is ready to make up" hence i told my friend to keep the gift in his care until i can get crim counsel's advise on it.

        she called my friend to see if i have accepted the gift and was disappointed that it was still with him.

        while the prelim is so close what is the appropriate course of action here? also if i accept the gift, what do i do on her bday which is up in a few days, i mean how would it be looked upon in the crim court if i returned her favor? not such a good idea to send her anything from the criminal matter perspective right?
        1. You will be calling all these witnesses to trial should you make it to trial.

        2. Photograph and itemize the "gifts" given in contravention of the restraining order.

        3. Notify counsel defending you of the conduct by the other parent and provide the evidence. Both the real (gifts) and photographs.

        This is typical of a highly conflicted person to do this. This is known as the "hoovering effect".

        Defintion - Hoover (Borderline Personality Disorder, BPD)

        READ THIS ONE:

        When Toxic People Start Hoovering | Light's Blog

        http://www.shrink4men.com/2012/03/28...k-you-back-in/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
          The only "gift" you should consider from her is the one where she goes the crown and admits perjury. Then perhaps she pays you back an extremely hefty sum for the legal fees and mental anguish you've suffered.
          Standing ovations for PH on this quote. It is the only "gift" that a false accuser should give. Sending over fathers day/mothers day gifts, and trying to communicate after attempts (or charges) have been laid is classic Axis II Disordered patterns of behaviour.

          False allegations of intimate partner abuse and child abuse IS PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE.

          Comment


          • #6
            Google "hoovering" and it isn't the vacuum...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
              1. You will be calling all these witnesses to trial should you make it to trial.

              2. Photograph and itemize the "gifts" given in contravention of the restraining order.

              3. Notify counsel defending you of the conduct by the other parent and provide the evidence. Both the real (gifts) and photographs.

              This is typical of a highly conflicted person to do this. This is known as the "hoovering effect".

              Defintion - Hoover (Borderline Personality Disorder, BPD)

              READ THIS ONE:

              When Toxic People Start Hoovering | Light's Blog

              Hoovers: Don't Let the Crazy Suck You Back In | Shrink4Men
              wow, all that sounds so right, from the article "An abusive personality cannot successfully Hoover you or get you to re-engage or recycle without your participation, which is why it’s important for you to recognize and understand what’s happening, why it’s happening, your buttons, desires, hopes, Achilles’ heels and fears. An effective Hoover plays on both your hopes and fears."

              I guess my achilles's heels was when my friends came back and relayed that she wants to end conflict.I have never wanted the conflict to begin with. Also it was pressure from them as they have been available twice a week for the entire year to facilitate access leaving their work & family behind to help me see my child, when they said they encourage me to end the conflict ( i guess even they got manipulated by what she said) i felt obligated to at least give it a thought.

              Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post

              Let me lend you a braincell...
              well deserved

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                well deserved
                This is critical evidence that you are not the issue in the matter in my honest opinion. The fact that you can take PH's feedback and even confirm that it was "well deserved" is incredibly forward thinking.

                Please do read the concepts of "hoovering" and understand them. Your friends should equally be asking the other parent to stop their distortion campaign against you in the criminal courts and before the family court. Clearly, if they are supervising the visitation you are no danger and they are going to be called as witnesses to this very fact.

                It is all well and good for your friends to be telling you to stop the conflict but, one would question if they are doing the same with the other parent. Furthermore, friends shouldn't be involved. Court should not be ordering "friends" to supervise access to children.

                1. They are not qualified to do so.
                2. They are biased parties.
                3. It is just downright ridiculous and demonstrates the requesting party's desire to "control" the other parent. (Clear as glass and easy to identify as a pattern of behaviour.)

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Trogan horse is how I would label that gift.Most likely she is hoping that she will look like a forgiving long suffering victim, trying her best to forgive the abusive monster........for the sake of the kids...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Your bail conditions are yours and yours alone.

                    If she initiated contact it is a pain in the ass for you, but she is perfectly able to do so without legal penalty.

                    Only YOU will get screwed over by direct/indirect communication. I don't believe accepting a gift is a form of communication (assuming it was mailed to you, or passed to you via the 'friends'). Calling her to thank/deny her for it is.

                    Just be aware it is YOUR responsablitly to avoid breaching your conditions. Not hers. Everytime you answer the phone and its her, immediately hang up without saying another word. If she shows up within X amount of meters of you, it is again YOUR responsablilty to comply with your conditions. You must leave. Not her.

                    Personally, I say don't do ANYTHING. She wants you back? Or to play nice? Or whatever! Fine - deal with it after you have dealt with your criminal charges - not one second before.
                    Last edited by wretchedotis; 10-09-2012, 08:02 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      Please do read the concepts of "hoovering" and understand them.
                      links to those articles were actually very helpful, i was very naive of the notion of hoovering, it the description and motives explained are very fitting to this situation.

                      Your friends should equally be asking the other parent to stop their distortion campaign against you in the criminal courts and before the family court.
                      They could advise her in the matter of family court, however any such advise to a "witness of the crown" which the ex in this case is would be considered criminal and "interference" with the justice system.

                      Clearly, if they are supervising the visitation you are no danger and they are going to be called as witnesses to this very fact.

                      It is all well and good for your friends to be telling you to stop the conflict but, one would question if they are doing the same with the other parent. Furthermore, friends shouldn't be involved. Court should not be ordering "friends" to supervise access to children.

                      1. They are not qualified to do so.
                      2. They are biased parties.
                      3. It is just downright ridiculous and demonstrates the requesting party's desire to "control" the other parent. (Clear as glass and easy to identify as a pattern of behaviour.)

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken
                      my apologize on this part i should have been more clear, my friends are only helping with access in terms of pickup and drop off because my bail conditions restrict me from being within 500 meters, they do not supervise in any other way. though i believe we will call them as witnesses in both family and criminal matters.

                      Though they did try to reason with her and tell her to settle the family part of matters out of court, thus far she did not listen. these friends of mine are such positive thinkers (i'd rather say delusional) that every time the ex says a positive word they just take it at face value without seeing all what she has done in the past and that i could be just a Trojan horse referred to as below

                      Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                      Trogan horse is how I would label that gift.Most likely she is hoping that she will look like a forgiving long suffering victim, trying her best to forgive the abusive monster........for the sake of the kids...
                      Yup that was my first instinct too, but then i thought about it again, in front of the judge there is a woman who got her husband arrested with false allegation of assault dating over a year before the arrest, then he was released and she went back 20 days later to the cops and falsely alleged sexual abuse dating about 3 years in the past and got him arrested again, once he was released she tried to get him arrested again on false allegations of breach ... is she really the "forgiving victim" here? hard to bite on i'd say .

                      I think she kinda shot herself in the foot with that whole gift thing. my counsel could argue she felt horrible about her lies and thus wanted to set things right and hence the gift (and the two friends as witnesses)

                      Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                      Your bail conditions are yours and yours alone.
                      yup thats why i am so cautious with this whole thing.

                      Personally, I say don't do ANYTHING. She wants you back? Or to play nice? Or whatever! Fine - deal with it after you have dealt with your criminal charges - not one second before.
                      I agree with this, the nicest way would be her admitting perjury as mentioned above, she is stupid but not that stupid i think .. lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I will make a point of recognizing PH's keen sense of experience and knowledge in dealing with people, without prejudice to either party I felt this thread as it is so very, very true. So the OP has "made amends for stumbling" and I took this on a very personal level - but without a doubt my ex has done things that I thought were unconciousable for her to even contiplate let alone execute - but she did. I made mistakes along the way for sure but I also know that I did not, I never even thought of going out of my way to, hurt my ex for my personal gain, satisfaction (what ever it takes for a person to do those types of things) and what impact that would have on our children. Today, I know I have been backed into a corner, pretty hard given my lack of income and I was very happy to hear what my legal representation had to say when the call came from the crown to drop my charges 100% (still not done - I asked the lawyer to wait until our next court appearance which will be in time before the criminal court date so it would not cost me for my lawyer's time to deal with this seperately).

                        My purpose to post today is perhaps a declaration on my part, I have never thought once on how to get back or get even but at the same time my ex just went too far. Could I ever forgive her? Maybe I am just not big enough a person today, but I do not think I will ever forgive, trust or anything inbetween when it comes to her ever again. This was not a school yard spat - this had to do with the police, the law, lawyers and court, money and everything to go with it..... It would take a very big, big gesture (as worded far better by PH than I could ever manage at this point) but I still don't think I would ever forget what she did to me, the relationship between the kids and myself (and yes the kids still do not have any idea of what really went on - I won't tell them). Maybe it willl come out in court, maybe not - but I do not worry about it either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                          I think she kinda shot herself in the foot with that whole gift thing. my counsel could argue she felt horrible about her lies and thus wanted to set things right and hence the gift (and the two friends as witnesses)
                          Setting things right by trying to manipulate you into breaking your no-contact order. Riiiiiiiight.

                          Tell your friends to keep the gift for themselves as a token of appreciation for their help in facilitating access, as it would be inappropriate for you to accept it.

                          Someone who feels horrible about their lies recants them!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                            Someone who feels horrible about their lies recants them!
                            My sentiments exactly. Anyone who flies into court, calls the police even once on the other parent, removes children without consent or a court order, files affidavit materials filled with unsubstantiated and false allegations is a psychological abuser of the worst kind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              My sentiments exactly. Anyone who flies into court, calls the police even once on the other parent, removes children without consent or a court order, files affidavit materials filled with unsubstantiated and false allegations is a psychological abuser of the worst kind.
                              you are going to absolutely love this :-)

                              i just came back after completing the Wednesday access. when friends went to drop of my son (and they are still not convinced that i should not receive the gift) they were asked to bring it back to her! loooooooooool. she said "he slapped me in the face by not accepting my gift, do you have any idea how insulting it is? i nearly killed my self to get that gift, he has broken my heart again, bring it back to me... i should have thought many times before sending him a gift"

                              when i heard all this, guess what was buzzing in my mind? the one word "HOOVERING" and all sorts of hoovering techniques combined into one... we may have just found the legend hooverer of our times.

                              Comment

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