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Old 09-01-2011, 02:03 PM
formyGirls formyGirls is offline
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Default Is it possible to find out someone's car insurance information?

Quick question...

Does anyone know any way (legal or illegal) that you can find out the auto insurance company/ agent/ policy that your ex is using?

Reason I ask... driving a company vehicle, turns out that my ex has contacted the company's insurance agent directly, and she apparently was trying to find out info on the policy and made suggestions to them that vehicle was being driven by someone who shouldn't be driving it. Insurance company verified we weren't doing anything wrong, but was wondering (as obviously am I) how the heck she managed to get that info.... she knew agent's name and everything, called his office directly, gave her name too!?!

The ex has done malicious things like this before (with some of my clients), and the agent is writing a letter for me and making notes of his conversation with her. (Turns out he has a nasty ex too, so he is more than eager to help). Now my company is a little miffed about all this, as it has wasted everyone's time and caused concern about how she is getting this info, and what else she may do that affects the company.

The agent suggested she could get that info through an insurance company's computers, but that is highly in contravention of privacy laws and as an agent he wouldn't dream of doing that for anyone. Wondering about the MTO? Anyone know if that's possible? She probably has access to my license #, the license plate of my company vehicle, my address, the company's address....

I would like to use this as another example of she needs to be placed under a non-contact order with regards to my current and past clients, employers, and company contacts/ agencies.

Unreal.... and still trying to figure out what she could possibly gain from all of this? Other than cementing the fact that she is a nutjob!
Old 09-01-2011, 03:16 PM
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Epona Epona is offline
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Interesting question. Nobody is supposed to acquire that information without written permission from the person or court order.
When my ex and I split, I asked the insurance company if there was any way my ex could get insurance (auto and house) information and they assured me he couldn't.
I know of no way she acquired the information, unless she has "connections"...
Old 09-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Fedupandtired Fedupandtired is offline
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Sounds like she has connections? Bad move on her part.
Old 09-01-2011, 05:11 PM
formyGirls formyGirls is offline
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I have spoken with the local police at length in this matter, and they have assured me they don't have access to insurance databases, and specifically in my instance, there is no way they could have even found the information she attained.

I have spoken with the MTO as well, and they are assuring me there is no way for her to have gotten the information from them, and they do not enter the specific information she obtained into the databases.

From the sounds of it, and from talking to another insurance agent, she likely had her own insurance company, or a friend in the industry, enter the insurance database and retrieve this information. The agent suggested it is a major infraction, and he wouldn't dream of doing that for anyone.

Now the owner of the company I am working for is even more upset about this violation, to the point of talking about pursuing the insurance company that released this information.

And I am stuck in the middle, trying to somehow justify what the hell I got myself into here. It's one thing for your boss to know, but for the company to be attacked as well.... ugh
Old 09-01-2011, 09:35 PM
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It's probable she had a friend/acquaintence insurance broker punch your name into the insurance database. They all have access to it. I know this because not to long ago I was sitting in my friends/insurance broker's office one day after work he was asking me about a cousin of mine I haven't seen or spoken too in years. He punch-his name into the data base and within seconds I couldn't believe the information that came up about my cousin.

Bottom line there is no way to stop people from doing this and its likely where the info came from
Old 09-01-2011, 09:46 PM
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Possible she called her own insurance company and mentioned she'd dinged up another car but only walked away with the driver's name, gave his name and had her insurance company find insurance contact info for him.

Given that she's making a nuisance of herself for the company you work for, perhaps it's time for the company lawyer to send her a cease and desist letter, or look into a restraining order?
Old 09-01-2011, 11:04 PM
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just glanced thru these posts and it may or not help. Size of your company? Does it have an HR dep't.... What I get at is my stbx would not give me the info regarding anything about the details of her pension, benefits etc. and she was really miffed when I came up with - well I know her plans better than she does now! I was honest, I indentified myself, my circumstance and hid absolutely nothing from anyone i spoke to. By the end of the day I had all the info I required and perhaps much more as at each step of the way I was offered advice on how to best protect my rights, wording that needs to be included in the seperation agreement so that I may keep on her benefit plan and, in the case of her pension, I have the contact now so that when the time comes I can forward the package details so they can advise me that I indeed am going to get what I expect and all the loopholes are closed.

So perhaps your wife got your info in the same fashion as I did? (ok - except it appears your ex is doing planning malice and harm where I am just trying to protect my rights and get the best shake I possibly can?) But regardless my stbx would just die for finding out how I got the info!! It is amazing what one can accomplish when "truth" is on their side.
Old 09-02-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Quick question...

Does anyone know any way (legal or illegal) that you can find out the auto insurance company/ agent/ policy that your ex is using?
There are a variety of different ways. Some of them have been already covered. There may be a way to find out from the company that finances the company vehicle as well if it is on lease or loan. If there is an outstanding loan or lease a solicitor can quickly look it up and get the information. From there you can then find out the information from the lending company as they have your insurance on file to secure the loan. You can simply state that the vehicle hit you and they will give up the goose on the insurance information probably.

I would also check with the Family Responsibility Office. They can be nasty when it comes to child support and it is my understanding from your threads that you are paying child support. Should you be in arrears of child support they may have provided the information? They have some weird powers over driver’s licenses that they often leverage when support is not paid. I am not sure if FRO has access to the financial information/insurance but, they may be able to see if you are paying insurance on a vehicle. Their view into a paying parent’s finances is obscure to the general public and they have all sorts of things they can do. So it could be FRO that provided the information. Someone could easily social engineer the information out of them… Especially if there are arrears owing on support.

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Reason I ask... driving a company vehicle, ... driving it.
Now, in past threads you have said that the other parent was a director and possibly a co-owner of the company. If it is the same company the other parent is entitled to this information. Furthermore, be forewarned if you are driving a company vehicle. This should be revealed on your financial statement and estimates for the benefit of driving this vehicle should be clearly outlined. The requirements to reveal this information and how the company vehicle benefits you have to be revealed. If you didn’t reveal it and they bring it up as a possible enrichment that isn’t on your financial statement a judge will order the information be provided. Company’s make everything messy.

If you own the company or are just working for the company you will probably have to produce the cost to you should you have owned the vehicle. It is a benefit provided to you by the company as an employee and as such you would probably have to reveal this information in detail for full and frank financial disclosure as required by the Family Law Act.

So, don’t be surprised if the argument comes back that they were investigating your financial disclosure. The other parent has every right to investigate all matters for the proceedings. If you failed to provide full and frank disclosure of your financials and they present evidence that you benefit from the vehicle from the company how the evidence was obtained may not be an issue to the judge in a civil matter as you are required under the rules to provide the financial disclosure.

If the company vehicle is your primary vehicle and you have no other vehicle then the financial disclosure as a benefit to you is important. Just get a letter from the company providing the vehicle stating its estimated value to you as a benefit. Insurance + payment and any gas you expense for company use. Be open with your financial disclosure. Judges hate when parents are not and hide information or refuse to provide disclosure. How does it hurt you to be open and honest about your financial disclosure? Also, it would put an end to them having to investigate matters and dig like this which causes you stress.

Now, with regards to the “someone who shouldn’t be driving it” issue... If the vehicle is owned by a company that the other parent is responsible for in any way the other parent has every right to raise this issue with the insurance company. Furthermore, if the vehicle is transporting your children and isn’t properly insured it could also be an issue. The other parent should have just asked through their solicitor through a Form 20 (Request for Information).

I am sure you would have responded appropriately with the information and provided the disclosure that the vehicle is properly insured and if not insured properly you would have fixed the problem with the company providing the vehicle.

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Insurance company v... gave her name too!?!
Privacy unfortunately in family law goes out the window when one of the parties go to court. Everything you do, say etc… is all potentially relevant in the matters. When you take your matter to the public system to solve everything you do, your finances and your life is in full view of that public system. Many parents going to court never realize this. Anyone can walk into the court house, look up your continuing record and read and copy it all. It is all public record. (Well not in Quebec for family law.)

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
The ex has done malicious ... eager to help).
The letter is useless as you are going to trial. The agent would have to produce an affidavit sworn to the truth on the matter. The other party in the litigation cannot cross examine or call the agent as a witness. A good solicitor can have that letter thrown out of the evidence file. The reason being as anyone can type up a letter on some letter head and sign any name to it. Now that you are scheduled for trial it should be a proper affidavit.

Also, any information form the clients should be in affidavit format too. If the clients have forwarded you emails regarding contact you can use this in the record but, the other party to the litigation can request them for questioning possibly on the content of the email. Trials are VERY complex situations.

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Now my company is a ... what affects the company.
“My company” or “the company you work for”? Key question. Who owns the company that owns the vehicle? Be very careful on how you are using the vehicle and how you work for “the company” in question. The use of the company vehicle is potentially a taxable benefit so you will need to possibly report the benefit to you both to Revenue Canada and for your financial disclosure. Don’t try to hide the use of the vehicle and benefit you receive from its use. It will come back to haunt you in the proceedings. (Unjust enrichment)

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
The agent suggested she ... he wouldn't dream of doing that for anyone.
Again, this would be a criminal matter. My understanding is that the access to your insurance record should be tracked to see who looked it up. Double check this with the insurance organization that governs the records on this matter. If there is miss use of the system they should have a governing privacy and security system that they can check with to see who accessed the record. Of course the true owner of the vehicle would have to do this or the officer of the company which holds the policy in question.

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Wondering about the MTO? ... the company's address....
More than likely the information came off a PPSA search by the solicitor if there is an outstanding loan. Hard to say but, you can always request (through a Form 20) the disclosure from the other party on how the information was obtained. You can do it through a From 20 or a general letter sighting it as an official request for information. (I think… Ask your solicitor though first.)

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
I would like to use ... contacts/ agencies.
I highly doubt the other parent’s actions can be sanctioned through a non-contact order as such. Check with your solicitor. Also, be careful. I got the impression you were seeking shared custody and shared residency. The hostility of seeking a non-contact/restraining order against the other parent may not demonstrate to the trial judge a very amicable situation.

Just document the contact, outline it as a distortion campaign and let a judge deal with it in an appropriate manner. Never tell a judge what to do. Just present the relevant evidence without emotion and let the judge solve the problem. You can request specific orders but, don’t get all emotional in affidavits or on the stand about it. Sorry to say but, it is best to let it roll off your back for now.

Originally Posted by formyGirls View Post
Unreal.... and still trying ... cementing the fact that she is a nutjob!
What could the other parent gain?

1. Leverage on your sworn financial statement demonstrating you are hiding or miss representing your benefits.
2. Leverage on you for support arrears if owing.
3. Evidence to your income or sources of income (even benefits) not reported on your financial statement which should allow you to pay more support.
4. An emotional reaction from you that generates a nasty high-conflict correspondence to the other parent’s solicitor or directly to the other parent.

Good Luck!
Old 09-03-2011, 11:45 AM
formyGirls formyGirls is offline
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I should clarify some things first, as the mention of the company stuff gets confusing, especially if you have read other threads of mine. The company I am referring to, that owns the vehicle, is one I work for right now. Since separation, I did some independent work, then started working for this company later. The company is owned by relatives, but I have nothing to do with running it in any way. Her lawyer threatens to make the company disclose all its records and minute books etc. All this is a moot point, however, as I am starting a new job next week, for someone I am not related to. I am just afraid she is going to go snooping around and contact them too now, and create more issues for me and the new company.

Tayken made a lot of good points about claiming the personal benefit of a company vehicle. In my case, I have addressed that already through disclosure, and the company accountant included a small benefit just to shut down the idea that maybe it was forgotten and not addressed. I am dispatched directly to clients from home, so I need to take the company vehicle to and from my residence, thus it is not a personal benefit. And I own a smaller crappy car that is my personal vehicle for weekends, as the company vehicle is not appropriate for family stuff.

Had it simply been an issue of confirming that I had insurance, or my girlfriend having insurance, it could of and would have been taken care of easily - we have nothing to hide. It has never been asked for, though.

I have done a bunch of calling and investigative work, trying to get to the bottom of this. Basically, there is no way the info could come from the MTO. She did not get it by having her insurance agent enter the insurance database and search out myself or the owner of the company I have been working for. I have dealt with the MTO, police, Insurance Bureau of Canada, the FSOC (gov't agency that oversees all financial and insurance matters), and CGI (the company that oversees and maintains the database that the insurance agents, brokers, and the MTO have access to.)

Now that I understand the details of how each agency interacts with each other, and how they handle and track data, I feel 100% confident that you could not get this information in a legitimate way. I discussed the issue at length with police (no names given, and I didn't make a report), and we came to a conclusion together.

To make a long story short(er), it turns out the company vehicle I am driving was in a minor accident a few years ago. After some research, we find out the company owner was the driver at the time, and the other vehicle was insured by the same insurance company that my ex went to after separation. The agent could look up the info by searching my company's owner's name, and it would pull up the accident report, which would have the agent name, insurance company, and policy number (along with lots of other confidential information). This kind of internal search would not be tracked at CGI, because her insurance company did not have to search the third party database to get this info.

Should it have been shared? Absolutely not! It is a major infraction, according to the Insurance Bureau. They gave me contacts to make a complaint and start an investigation.

Will I? Nah. I am running silent here, not saying a peep about this to the ex. As an individual incident, it has little value in family court. But it is now number 6 in the last year and a bit, in her pattern of making an allegation the day or two before my access, canceling my access because of the allegation, only to either reinstate access in the 11th hour (or not in some cases), all using her false allegations as reason for denial of access.

Having learned lots from some of the excellent posters here on this forum, I am taking a less confrontational approach. I have contacted my insurance company, had them put a flag on my file to not discuss it with the ex. Same with the bank, where the manager put some notes into the computer file to not share info with the ex, even though they assured me it never would happen. And finally, as much as I hated to do so, I talked to my new employer and let him know what was going on, and to just try to ignore anything that comes his way from her, and to please let me know if she does try anything. As much as I would like to nail my ex to the wall sometimes, it's not worth it - it just spurs her on to do even more.

I have always been good at being non-reactional to her allegations and emails, not allowing myself to be drawn into a fight. But with the help of others on this forum, now I am awesome at it

The longer things go, there are more and more emails of her short-circuiting and throwing the kids around as leverage. And just as many replies on my part addressing her those concerns that affect the kids in a professional, non-confrontational matter. It's hard to be so careful with every word, every suggestion, that I don't set her off or put her on the defensive.

My uttering threats charge has me in a no-communication setting right now, which is limiting our communications to email only, forwarded through an agreeable third party. It has turned out to be a blessing, really! At least all her crap is there in writing now
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