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Settlement Conference Will I get stuck with costs ?

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  • Settlement Conference Will I get stuck with costs ?

    Hello,

    I have my first settlement conference coming up soon .

    2 children under 15 yrs with 50 / 50 split care and custody ( 1 week on 1 week off )
    and the third lives only with me fulltime ( young adult student ) .

    I was not as prepared as I would have liked and am worried that things will not go my way . I am afraid that the judge may say no to my Motion to Change Separation Agreement and Yes to her request for arrears child support and lawyer costs .

    That could total 10 grand and I am beyond living pay to pay . I actually run the household at a deficit every month .

    Do they take that into consideration or is it , you lose , you pay ?

  • #2
    Sounds like you're asking about costs related to the motion, not the settlement conference?

    Comment


    • #3
      If you lose, when it comes to costs, be prepared to emphasize the negative effect it would have on the children. This is especially true since you appear to have the kids more than 50% [(50+50+100)/3=67% or so].

      Parents with less than 50% custody get hammered with costs. You might be able to escape by using the children as a shield.

      Of course, in the future, if you are going to lose a motion, make some very serious offers to settle. Generally, the offer to settle should offer MORE than what you expect to get at trial. Offers to settle are not attempts to do better than a trial. That is the best defense against a costs order.

      Comment


      • #4
        Your post is confusing. There is a difference between costs for the motion (lawyer fees etc) and your arrears and other section 7 expenses.

        If you haven’t been paying the proper amount of cs and s7 then you will be obligated to pay them. You could offer to offset the costs against future child support she would pay. For instance, you owe her $2000 but she would be obligated to pay you $200 per month going forward. You could waive ten months of support to off set the amount you owe. Or some other version of that. If she has to pay you ongoing cs for the one child that lives with you, work out a way to avoid paying a big arrears payment by not taking cs for a few months.

        If you are talking about her fees to defend herself against the motion to change thats different. From what I understand, costs aren’t determined until after a trial. You don’t “lose” a conference. They are held to get the parties to agree to settle. If an order ensues from one its because both parties agreed to it. A judge cannot necessarily order something or decide the MTC at the conference. They can update cs and order disclosure but thats it. (From what I understand—not a lawyer). But to be ordered to pay costs, that would be following a trial where you lost.

        Anyone else can feel free to chime in but I think you are confused about what you may be ordered to pay. Your best bet is to get your numbers figured out in a chart and then offer to resolve those numbers now.

        Comment


        • #5
          OK, to clarify.

          I filed a motion to change the separation agreement because we used the offset method of child support instead of " I pay you , you pay me "

          Needless to say, Revenue Canada denied me every credit that I applied for ( Eligible Dependent and Child Tax Benefit ) for the past 4 years , even though our written separation agreement outlined who was supposed to claim each child and how we split the CTB 50 - 50 .

          She hired a lawyer to get the motion dismissed at case conference but that did not happen . 2 Case conferences later and the motion still has not been heard in court but it has not been dismissed either.

          We have also been arguing over child support amounts and Section 7 expenses . I owe her some CS and she owes me some Section 7 .

          She refused to go to mediation to settle so a settlement conference is now next up .

          Since I know that the courts care very little about anything else except CS , I may look bad in the end because I do still owe some arrears . I currently pay about 80 % of my monthly obligation .

          I have no idea how the judge will advise on how to proceed but in a worst case scenario, could I be saddled with entire CS arrears plus all her previous legal fees ?

          Comment


          • #6
            She would have to file for costs to get her legal fees paid. Thats different than child support or section 7 costs. Forget that issue right now and focus on the other stuff. Costs decisions happen after trial and she would have to win. Focus on getting a settlement at the next conference.

            Go into this conference with the numbers. I owe her X she owes me Y I will pay Z at A rate for B months. Period. Thats how you solve it.

            If you owe her money over and above what she owes you, the likelihood of her saying don’t pay me is low. Just work out what you can pay or how you can off set the cost over time.

            CRA is a different ball game and not your ex’s fault. You can’t say I’m not paying you because cra didn’t pay me. That wont work.

            Think about what the judge is saying to you both at these conferences. Judges are supposed to work to get you to agree without trial.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sam Sung View Post
              OK, to clarify.

              I filed a motion to change the separation agreement because we used the offset method of child support instead of " I pay you , you pay me "

              Needless to say, Revenue Canada denied me every credit that I applied for ( Eligible Dependent and Child Tax Benefit ) for the past 4 years , even though our written separation agreement outlined who was supposed to claim each child and how we split the CTB 50 - 50 .

              She hired a lawyer to get the motion dismissed at case conference but that did not happen . 2 Case conferences later and the motion still has not been heard in court but it has not been dismissed either.
              ?
              I am going to a settlement conference at the end of this month on this exact issue - how the wording should be reflected in our Agreement (so there's no issue with CRA). This is the only thing left to finalize, but this is regarding our original agreement (I'm not trying to re-open an existing one).

              I can certainly let you know how my conference goes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sam Sung View Post
                Since I know that the courts care very little about anything else except CS , I may look bad in the end because I do still owe some arrears . I currently pay about 80 % of my monthly obligation .
                You know the courts only care about CS, and yet you are going to court having not done the one thing that the courts care about.

                That could be an extremely expensive 20% that you saved there.

                I have no idea how the judge will advise on how to proceed but in a worst case scenario, could I be saddled with entire CS arrears plus all her previous legal fees ?
                I would go on the assumption that you are going to have to pay the entire CS arrears no matter what. In fact, I would even make an offer to settle that offers to both pay entire CS arrears with interest AND modify agreement to make it CRA compatible.

                Going to court with "dirty hands" is a stupid legal tactic.

                And paying 80% of child support is baffling. If you are not going to pay 100%, at least pay 50% or less... make it worth your while. Saving 20% is a ridiculously small savings for the grief it is going to bring down on your head.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Its actually more complicated than just a simple " I am only going to pay 80 % ".

                  We went from 3 kids going back and forth to 2 kids going back and forth and 1 staying with me only . ( so we had to figure out what the new amounts should be )

                  We have section 7 expenses owed to me that were never paid .

                  We have non disclosure of T4 slips well past the time they were due ( on her part ).

                  We have T4 slips that didn't make sense since she under employed herself .

                  We have an agreement that we are supposed to go to mediation but she bailed on it after the first session .

                  I have every intention of paying every cent that I owe . I would just like to know what that amount is supposed to be .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It sounds like you have a court order.

                    Did you unilaterally decide to pay less than the court order? Did she agree to the change?

                    Comment

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