LF32 "need to see daughter" pt.2

[LovingFather32]

Are tou sure she is in a shelter. Perhaps she just moved in with Daddy # 2.

Under costs in her answer she wanted $500 for the move to a shelter. In that same answer said 2 bedroom townhouse. So for sure she WAS there. For the night? No clue. I bet now shes with daddy#2

[MrToronto]

keep this in mind ...you cannot record conversations, without the other persons permission

If (when) you get a Call... for whatever reason...you make perfectly clear at the start you need there permission to record.....that they are being recorded.... (even if your not setup too...lol) remember that Lf32....then your going to here a "click"

[arabian]

I work for a specialist and have had occasion where a verbally abusive patient needs to be reined in. We have a nice phone system where I push a button and the patient is advised the conversation is being recorded and if they object to being recorded to "hang up now." It is very effective. Interestingly, I have never yet had a patient hang up. I believe asking someone if they object to being recorded is a courtesy and nothing more.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe in Canada only one person needs to be aware of the recording, not necessarily both parties.

[MrToronto]

I know your on Red Alert always...But the other side isn't relaxed, by any means, you have rights and a lot of power over this matter.

I sat in another city once (not a province) and cursed driving to the Courthouse where the "matter was started" or to see a lawyer to sign forms or appear.

If I visited the lawyer (after I signed a stupid form) I'd sit in my car and say frack what a waste of a day (so I got rid of the lawyer...but not exactly then)

Logistics....the ability to funnel information into a court house virtually anytime is immeasurable.

Is logistics important, it's key "while the ex has a free lawyer in town"

how long is that going to last.....not forever.....because they don't communicate very well.

Communication between free lawyer and client is critical. Sooner or later the over confident ex is going to be too slow to get back to a (overworked) lawyer and he'll lose it.

LAO lawyer is like you LF32 a sucker for SOB stories (upfront) but watch what happens when she screws him around (self entitlement)

He's got credibility to watch out for, she better do access and what he says or else, he'll serve her to you on a platter

[MrToronto]

I found out video from Nanny Cams are allowable in Court....only if there is no audio.....but I didn't research it far enough I think it was a States article. In Canada you got to respect an individuals privacy...charter of rights stuff

[MrToronto]

I'm trying to figure out if LF32's ex filed a FORM 13 Financials with a budget. I'm pretty sure she has too.

(I think welfare checks are sent out a few days before the end of the month) Regardless I see no harm in asking for a recent "paystub" or welfare check. unless there's a rule on that for victims.

and a copy of the ex's lease because LF32 has questions on the ex's "budget" and wants to confirm, subsidy to actual rent paid (sounds like a good excuse)

1) 2 reasons for OP to squirm......collecting welfare in 2 provinces? or not collecting in one province but another or stealing welfare and living out of province with granny...TABERNACK

2) no 12 month lease means no way status quo can be even suggested
shelter...subsidized dump....then...where? la belle province....they won't produce one (victim stuff) but make hay on the moving around. with estimated dates at each location (already moved twice....and third time would be sweet)

stuff to consider that fly under the radar...but have impact later...that the lawyer won't answer....because he can't get a hold of your ex at festivals

future questions

Provide Dates your Client was at Women's Shelter

Provide Dates your Client was at subsidized housing

Where is your client living Currently

Will you Client furnish a lease?

Please provide a copy of a the JULY Ontario Works payment stub

[LovingFather32]

I'm trying to figure out if LF32's ex filed a FORM 13 Financials with a budget. I'm pretty sure she has too.

(I think welfare checks are sent out a few days before the end of the month) Regardless I see no harm in asking for a recent "paystub" or welfare check. unless there's a rule on that for victims.

and a copy of the ex's lease because LF32 has questions on the ex's "budget" and wants to confirm, subsidy to actual rent paid (sounds like a good excuse)

1) 2 reasons for OP to squirm......collecting welfare in 2 provinces? or not collecting in one province but another or stealing welfare and living out of province with granny...TABERNACK

2) no 12 month lease means no way status quo can be even suggested
shelter...subsidized dump....then...where? la belle province....they won't produce one (victim stuff) but make hay on the moving around. with estimated dates at each location (already moved twice....and third time would be sweet)

stuff to consider that fly under the radar...but have impact later...that the lawyer won't answer....because he can't get a hold of your ex at festivals

Yep she filled out her financials and budget. I do believe she's moving around. But I cant get disclosure .. that's the catch. And that's WHY theyre not giving disclosure Im sure. I can try and estimate dates. But I wish I had the darn facts. FORM 20 requested leases, pay stubs, etc. He laughed at it and spit on it. I cant even get him to confirm 3 hour access anymore let alone all this golden disclosure. I really do like your questions. Perhaps I should send another form 20. That'd really pee him off.

La Belle province .. lol How'd you guess?

Like Arabian, I also read that only one person needs to have the recorder and know about it. Im remembering a few times out of nowhere she said "I know I have bad teeth!", loudly. I remember being confused and saying .. umm no you don't, I love your teeth. Some things are starting to come back to me. She would say something rude, come back in the room and just stare at me. I remember the look. A look on her face like Ive never seen before. I wonder.

[MrToronto]

Doesn't matter if you remember dates(all you can do is guess from relationship breakdown ) but your EX knows the dates of shelters and subsidized housing...and if she's currently still in a subsidized house and where.

This is just a small point ....on stopping status quo...or proving she took off to another province....or the other part of the city.......she's a tumble weed...you got the primary residence.

Listen a Judge needs proof the EX is a liar...either she legitimately went to a shelter then to subsidized housing then moved into the city to get a job and work with you on access or she used the victim stuff too take off out of province

So you see ....

this is info only "she" can give ....dates...proof....and people that aren't guilty do it no problem......she won't

make it simple the questions straight forward (everything is for a Judge to read)...and provide (Trojan horse)with a access letter....same ol routine.

build your case....this is part of it....while the ex still has a lawyer best to use him...he may not be around long. You will at some point have to transition to dealing with her without him and that's why I suggest

learning the system to chase "crazy lady" because crazy lady likes what she's hearing now, but soon .... won't as this goes on

to hedge your bets (if she was sincere) I said amend your original application, I still say yes to it...but keep sole custody as the first claim...then joint as you primary caregiver, then joint...then access EOW

Your ex is in to much of a hurry, and your too patient...who wins the turtle or the hare.

[LovingFather32]

Mr. Toronto. You're absolutely correct. People with nothing to hide .. don't hide things. Kind of like getting a hair follicle when you don't have to .. nothing to hide. I can estimate dates for sure. I should just do what Beachnanna said and get a buddy to follow after an access to see where the hell she goes.

[Rioe]

Mr. Toronto. You're absolutely correct. People with nothing to hide .. don't hide things. Kind of like getting a hair follicle when you don't have to .. nothing to hide. I can estimate dates for sure. I should just do what Beachnanna said and get a buddy to follow after an access to see where the hell she goes.

That would be only for your own knowledge. You couldn't use it anywhere in court because then she'd just accuse you of stalking behaviour, which is abusive, which is why supervised access is necessary, blah blah blah. You might gain a little insight into what she's delaying disclosing, but the gain is probably not worth the potential cost. If you still want to do it, make sure it's a friend she never met, and have your friend be very careful not to get caught.

I still maintain that where she lives and how she supports herself is irrelevant to your current motion for more access. The child lived in your area while the relationship was intact, and should not be unilaterally removed from it now that her parents are separated. Your ex's residence and budget will become important later if she demands spousal support or something.

[LovingFather32]

That would be only for your own knowledge. You couldn't use it anywhere in court because then she'd just accuse you of stalking behaviour, which is abusive, which is why supervised access is necessary, blah blah blah. You might gain a little insight into what she's delaying disclosing, but the gain is probably not worth the potential cost. If you still want to do it, make sure it's a friend she never met, and have your friend be very careful not to get caught.

I still maintain that where she lives and how she supports herself is irrelevant to your current motion for more access. The child lived in your area while the relationship was intact, and should not be unilaterally removed from it now that her parents are separated. Your ex's residence and budget will become important later if she demands spousal support or something.

Good point. The judge should really know that I've been concerned about D3's stability jumping place to place as any parent would though no? And that I've inquired many times and been stonewalled. For me its less about how the ex lives or supports herself .. and more about our daughter and her stability.

[MrToronto]

I don't care really from the divorce wars...I got scars everywhere...but I do know...what use to be my enemy (the well meaning people) can be my friend

every single "helper" of the ex....is going to be burned, so reviewing the "victim helpers that will get burned" is a good thing, because they'll be called as witness's to Trial.

and there memory may be "fuzzy" in the witness box.

so record how, who, where as part of what and why to call upon later LF32, they'll have great stories, too sell the ex out

[FB_]

keep this in mind ...you cannot record conversations, without the other persons permission

If (when) you get a Call... for whatever reason...you make perfectly clear at the start you need there permission to record.....that they are being recorded.... (even if your not setup too...lol) remember that Lf32....then your going to here a "click"

This is 100% incorrect.

As long as you are a party to the conversation you can record without their permission or notification.

A nanny cam with audio is illegal because you are not a party to the conversation.

This is why walking around the house with a voice recorder on your person is OK.

[MrToronto]

Lf32's in the quiet pool RIOE...it's level one....trying to settle without court...dealing with a lawyer......we hope to stop the lawyer "hotshot" by running out of certificates or case conference B.S over access....or ex running out of housing shelters and takes off...ex screwing up on access...while L32 blows fart bombs on settlement...mediation ....and gathers info on a one sided case

level 2: hasn't been reached yet...the motion...then we go from there

[MrToronto]

I think some people already knew "the ex is headed to granny", including LF32

but "victims" need the red carpet" or they'll never come forward(barf)

Don't do anything rash...LF32 ....the ex is in a hurry....she'll burn her sisters at the shelter, Ontario Works and the dummy lawyer

Your going to get rained on being smart, and patient. and collecting the info from your "rabbit" ex

I said ..I was revising court doc's even up to a trial (questioning) and it's true all the way through. New info comes always...even at the last friggin minute.

Don't trade your rights in even if the system puts the hood over your head and hangs you.